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saurabhm_101
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:44 am Post subject: |
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The -900ERs for 9W have a 8J+178Y config
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theflyingsikh
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have information about where and why? 9W 117 which departed LHR on 31st Mar 12 was diverted to?
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me111993
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| theflyingsikh wrote: | | Does anyone have information about where and why? 9W 117 which departed LHR on 31st Mar 12 was diverted to? |
I don't know about that, but 9W 118 today was done by VT-JWL (A332); because of lack of 77W's in 9W's fleet (boy, never thought i'd say that  ) .
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747-237
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/why-konnect-edged-out-jetlite/469751/
Why Konnect edged out JetLite
Apr 02, 2012
It was a quiet image makeover — without any frills — but Jet Airways hopes that a change in the branding strategy of its low-cost product will also help change its fortune.
Last Sunday, Jet Airways phased out JetLite, the low-cost service it launched after acquiring Air Sahara, in 2007. Instead of three brands, it will now have only a full-service Jet Airways and a low-cost Konnect brand. The airline is using JetLite Boeing 737s for the Konnect service keeping the former’s routes and level of service intact. JetLite has been rechristened as JetKonnect and airline officials hope the branding will help improve yields and attract a pie of the premium traffic, too.
Jet Airways will be reconfiguring 19 single-class Boeing 737s from the JetLite fleet to add eight business class seats. Currently, all JetLite planes have only economy class seating. This will make available an additional 152 business class seats across the network. That will be an extra 10 per cent business class seats in Jet’s domestic network.
Jet Airways chief commercial officer Sudheer Raghavan confirmed the move. “Erstwhile JetLite Boeing 737 aircraft will also have eight-seat configuration in the Premiere Cabin upfront. These aircraft would however, be reconfigured in a phased manner, over a period of 12 months,” he stated.
Post-merger, Jet Konnect will account for 80 per cent of all Jet domestic flights, though the figure would vary season to season. Currently, 17 twin class Boeing 737s and 20 ATRs planes of Jet Airways and 19 Boeing 737s from JetLite fleet are used for Konnect flights.
For Jet, the branding exercise has come at an opportune time. Kingfisher Airlines, which till recently was a contender for the number two slot, has shrunk drastically and lost much of its corporate business to rivals. “As the capacity in the market is less, all airlines are selling tickets in the higher fare slabs,” a source said.
The airline has been toying with the idea of introducing the no-frills Konnect service on some of its Gulf routes as there is not much demand for premium class seats, but no decision has been taken as yet.
“JetKonnect will currently operate only one international route namely the existing service between Delhi and Kathmandu. However, as part of its management process, the company will carry out continuous evaluations to ascertain demand for such services. Based on demand, JetKonnect flights would be deployed further on international routes to cope with the growth in those specific markets,” Raghavan said.
The move to merge the two low cost brands had financial underpinnings too. Over the last three quarters, Jet Airways posted losses as operating costs increased on the back of fuel price rise. JetLite met the same fate with losses in all the quarters. Airline officials admitted to investor analysts last year that JetLite was less immune to discount pricing unleashed by the competition.
“With Air India dropping prices, we started losing customer even at JetLite levels, because those passengers actually found Air India much cheaper than flying on JetLite. That’s the reason why we had to drop our fares significantly to be still relevant compared to Air India in the market,” K G Vishwanath, Jet’s vice president (investor relations) had told analysts last May.
In the third quarter of FY 2012 Jet Airways lost Rs 101 crore while Jet Lite had a loss of Rs 21 crore.
The breakeven seat factor and average revenue per passenger showed a negative trend for JetLite in all the three quarters. The breakeven seat factor was 99.3 per cent in the second quarter.
Raghavan, however, denied that JetLite brand had limitations such as high breakeven factor or slower revenue growth. “High seat factors have been registered consistently for JetLite. However, we are now streamlining our low fare product offerings to simplify brand recall serving the same market,” he said.
“Given that our low-fare, high-quality all-economy product, Jet Konnect, has proved to be a successful model since its introduction in May 2009, we thought it best to consolidate our products in the low-fare segment with a single brand – JetKonnect — for enhanced brand recall,” he said.
“It does not make sense to have two brands in the same segment because there is little product differentiation,” said an aviation expert. “It made sense to merge. From a marketing perspective too there is clarity. There is no confusion amongst passengers about these brands” he added.
On an operating level, the merger will not mean an end to JetLite as an entity. “There will be no impact on staff and JetLite and Jet Airways will continue to exist as two separate yet distinct legal entities, operating under their respective operating permits - selling the JetKonnect brand. The balance sheets and accounts of the two companies though will remain separate,” Raghavan said.
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me111993
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| theflyingsikh wrote: | | Does anyone have information about where and why? 9W 117 which departed LHR on 31st Mar 12 was diverted to? |
Flight diverted to LHR itself, at FL140 oxygen masks dropped; the plane (VT-JEM) returned to LHR about 40 mins into the flight; landed heavy.
Maintainance concentrated on the pressure relief vents located on the cargo door area.
The 77W landed in BOM at around 1930 yesturday evening.
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Devesh
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| 747-237 wrote: | Why Konnect edged out JetLite
It was a quiet image makeover — without any frills — but Jet Airways hopes that a change in the branding strategy of its low-cost product will also help change its fortune.
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When I first read the article, I was confused whether I was reading a newspaper or whether I was reading some in-house Jet publication.
Talk about selling oneself.
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HAWK21M
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| me111993 wrote: | | theflyingsikh wrote: | | Does anyone have information about where and why? 9W 117 which departed LHR on 31st Mar 12 was diverted to? |
Flight diverted to LHR itself, at FL140 oxygen masks dropped; the plane (VT-JEM) returned to LHR about 40 mins into the flight; landed heavy.
Maintainance concentrated on the pressure relief vents located on the cargo door area.
The 77W landed in BOM at around 1930 yesturday evening. |
So what was the conclusion.....
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theflyingsikh
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Last afternoon about 12:00 pm I was returning home from LHR terminal 4 after seeing off mum to Bom on AI 130. This is when I saw a 9W aircraft parked in one of the bays close to the motorway. Usually one does not see 9w aircrafts at LHR around this hr. Thats when I thought something was wrong and enquired with you all.
Thanks for all your replies.
On a different note. Mum had a very good flight with AI in J. Check in staff informed Y was sold out, 12 pax in J and 0 pax in F.
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747-237
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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Here is the official word of the above mentioned incident.
Incident: Jet Airways B773 near London on Mar 31st 2012, passenger oxygen masks dropped
Sunday, Apr 1st 2012
A Jet Airways Boeing 777-300, registration VT-JEM performing flight 9W-117 from London Heathrow,EN (UK) to Mumbai (India), was climbing through FL140 out of Heathrow's runway 09R when the passenger oxygen masks dropped. The crew stopped the climb at FL150, descended to FL090 and decided to return to London. The aircraft landed overweight but safely on Heathrow's runway 09L about 40 minutes after departure.
An observer on the ground reported maintenance engineers focussed on the forward cargo door, possibly on the pressure relief vent of the door.
The airline's website shows the flight diverted but does not provide any estimate/information when the passengers are expected to reach Mumbai.
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jasepl
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| Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Devesh wrote: | | Talk about selling oneself. |
Jet's been selling itself and every part of itself more successfully than seats at a profit
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me111993
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Jet is reconfiguring more A332's in the 18J/236Y; possible 2 more, DEL-MXP has already been shifted to a route operated by an 18/236 configured A330; and I believe JNB will be too. The other route operated by A332's in this config is DEL-BRU-YYZ.
it'll be interesting to see what 9W does with their A332s once more 77Ws start coming back, they can have a subfleet of 6-7 A332's in this config, which can comfortable operate BOM-RUH/JED or DEL-DXB or some of the BKK runs.
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jasepl
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Is it still going to be the herringbone seats or are they going back to the previous lie-flats?
(Or did they already replace the standard seats with the herringbone on those Delhi-Toronto planes?)
Either way, it's not a good sign. Makes them too bottom heavy. Even bloody Aeroflot have more J seats.
And then what will they do on the 333s that are coming in soon(ish)?
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justbala
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| jasepl wrote: |
Either way, it's not a good sign. Makes them too bottom heavy. Even bloody Aeroflot have more J seats.
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Lolz... there is never any satisfying you when it comes to 9W. Damn them if they have too much premium config, damn them if they are too bottom heavy  |
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me111993
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| jasepl wrote: | Is it still going to be the herringbone seats or are they going back to the previous lie-flats?
(Or did they already replace the standard seats with the herringbone on those Delhi-Toronto planes?)
Either way, it's not a good sign. Makes them too bottom heavy. Even bloody Aeroflot have more J seats.
And then what will they do on the 333s that are coming in soon(ish)? |
Actually, JWD/WE are exactly the same as they were; blue seats in Y; 2-2-2 J seats in Y; but those 18J seats in 2-2-2 occupy the exact same space in 1-1-1 in J; so basically, the planes that they'll re configure; they'll just remove 12J seats and replace them with 46Y seats.
Both seat maps are visible for booking randomly; 2-2-2 for 3 rows as well as 1-1-1 for 6 rows, so depending on your luck you'll get herringbone J and moodlighting, conversly you may get the old seats.
Even IF the plane is too bottom heavy; they'd end up doing better than they are right now, even if not make money off it. There's no way they are filling 30J seats regularly.
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jasepl
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| me111993 wrote: | | Even IF the plane is too bottom heavy; they'd end up doing better than they are right now, even if not make money off it. There's no way they are filling 30J seats regularly. |
That is true, and it speaks a lot about their predicament. Really, 30 J isn't that much. And there I was, suggesting they dump F and increase the number of J seats!
It's not like the market doesn't exist; people are just choosing to fly another airline instead, for a host of reasons.
Jet should instead be doing much, much more to get people to pay for and fly their front cabin with it's fantastic hardware instead of chasing after backpack-toting Eurotrash who choose their airline based solely on who offers the lowest fare. Makes the "we fly more passengers to Bangkok than Emirates" (at a loss) claim and the resulting feeling of self-satisfaction even more laughable.
An airline such as Jet cannot sustain long and expensive routes on mostly Y alone; the gap between revenue and cost will simply be too wide.
By the way, even with the evidently empty J cabins, Jet won't let you redeem points to fly them. They'd rather have the seat unoccupied and pay redemption costs to partner airlines instead. Completely baffling logic.
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me111993
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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When I said there's no way they're filling 30J seats regularly, i meant on MXP/JNB.
BOM-BRU/LHR/HKG; DEL-HKG/LHR can very well sustain J cabins bigger than 30J seats.
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jasepl
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| me111993 wrote: | | When I said there's no way they're filling 30J seats regularly, i meant on MXP/JNB. |
Yeah, I presumed as much.
Same principle applies though, of working to get more pax to sit on those extremely comfortable herringbone seats.
And, in my opinion, the best source of said pax is also the one Jet tends to pass over: India.
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me111993
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jasepl wrote: | | me111993 wrote: | | When I said there's no way they're filling 30J seats regularly, i meant on MXP/JNB. |
Yeah, I presumed as much.
Same principle applies though, of working to get more pax to sit on those extremely comfortable herringbone seats.
And, in my opinion, the best source of said pax is also the one Jet tends to pass over: India. |
agreed. That last bit.
Just talking to an EK/QR guy tells you how massive goldmines BOM/DEL really are.
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himmat01
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:46 am Post subject: |
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Jet is planning more international flights from Dec 2012.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/jet-airways-plans-more-overseas-flights-by-december-2012/articleshow/12554033.cms
| Quote: | NEW DELHI: Naresh Goyal's Jet Airways is spreading its wings to reach more overseas destinations by winter of 2012, and thus coming strikingly close to Air India, India's national airline which currently flies to more overseas destinations.
With the civil aviation ministry ending Air India's monopoly over bilateral traffic rights, allowing all Indian carriers to utilise these, Jet Airways has sought government permission to expand its international services to 518 flights per week from 370 at present by winter of 2012.
Goyal, who is seen frequenting the civil aviation ministry more often these days, is looking at fulfilling his long awaited ambition of widening Jet's footprint in Europe, provided he gets the permission to implement this 40% jump in his airline's international operations.
The carrier has sought the ministry's approval to add 35 new flights to Germany and seven each to France and Belgium, in addition to seven each to Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sharjah and Vietnam. |
Why 35 flights to Germany? Are there plans for a 2nd hub in FRA/MUC? An additional daily to BRU. Does it mean an additional destination in N America?
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ameya
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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CDG would be online from DEL
Is there a plan to restart BLR-BRU ? where are those 7 to BRU being accounted from ?
HYD/BLR/CCU can be the only options and CCU and HYD look unlikely !
Has the airport operator impressed upon them to start BLR BRU ?
SGN also is a strange choice ! |
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me111993
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| ameya wrote: | CDG would be online from DEL
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is this CDG thing happening? As in, is it being seriously looked at or is it just something that we know.
Additional flights to BRU have to be from BLR; and I sincerely hope they go ahead with BLR-BRU-ORD.
BOM-SHJ is something we've been hearing for a while; and additional flights to SIN are also expected.
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nadarji
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 9W seems to have pulled out of TRV-SHJ from May 5. Odd, considering thats the start of the peak season.. |
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Sandy29
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| himmat01 wrote: | Jet is planning more international flights from Dec 2012.
Why 35 flights to Germany? Are there plans for a 2nd hub in FRA/MUC? An additional daily to BRU. Does it mean an additional destination in N America? |
Or is this just prep for a big bang arrival into Star Alliance....perhaps with Jet taking over some of LH's routes to India with terminators to FRA/MUC !?! |
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jasepl
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandy29 wrote: | | ....perhaps with Jet taking over some of LH's routes to India with terminators to FRA/MUC !?! |
The chances of that happening are somewhere between slim and none.
I can't picture Lufthansa ceding an inch. They haven't given up anything for any of their existing partners or subsidiaries (there may be a rare exception, but I can't think of one).
As for Jet starting 300 flights to 30 new destinations, let's not hold our breaths. I'll be surprised even if five new routes materialise in the next year to anywhere outside the Middle East.
It will be good if it were to happen. Good, but, alas, unlikely.
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behramjee
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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9W's application for 35 flights into Germany refers to code share with LH and not themselves operating as for 35 flights into Germany, you need 5 additional A330s in your fleet which 9W does not have. But yes for such a request to be made, all hints of joining Star Alliance do have some merit indeed.
SGN is not a strange choice at all because there is a very big market from Europe in particular CDG/LON bound to Vietnam plus there is decent O&D from India to SGN as well which can easily sustain a 4/5 weekly B738 operated service. Remember Vietnam is now slowly becoming the 2nd most popular tourist destination for Europeans after Thailand. It has also caught the eye of Indian tour operators specializing in East Asia travel because a lot of Indians have now seen everything that Thailand/KUL/SIN has to offer hence Vietnam is now the new 'in place to holiday' as it has history, culture, adventure and most of all is quite affordable for all !
The seven additional flights for BRU if indeed do go through will definitely be from BLR no doubt. Over here, I would suggest 9W to suspend JFK and replace it with ORD in order to diversify their presence in USA.
What I am interested to see is what route from India will get the 7 additional Doha and KSA frequencies.
However, I would seriously like to suggest to 9W to look at operating a daily B739ER from MAA to KWI as the MAA-KWI annual market size is bigger than any other Indian subcontinent route out of KWI i.e. 178,000 pax per year and only KU operates nonstop (4 weekly) hence a huge opportunity exists for them if exploited.
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jasepl
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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It is less about strangeness of choice and more about "we've heard it all before".
In any event, at this point, there's way too much conjecture and very little fact, so let's not get too overexcited.
And as for the tourists going to Vietnam on Jet's imminent flights to Saigon, here's what I predict will happen:
* Jet will time the flights to depart and arrive India between 11 pm and 2 am
* That means no domestic connectivity (or overnight connections, if one is so inclined)
* That also means the tour operators and tourists will continue to use SQ / TG / MH / CX / FD / etc
* There will be endless declarations of how nothing was our fault, we did everything right (we always do) and how Prafull and all of the state tax boards collectively conspired against us
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jasepl wrote: | It is less about strangeness of choice and more about "we've heard it all before".
In any event, at this point, there's way too much conjecture and very little fact, so let's not get too overexcited.
And as for the tourists going to Vietnam on Jet's imminent flights to Saigon, here's what I predict will happen:
* Jet will time the flights to depart and arrive India between 11 pm and 2 am
* That means no domestic connectivity (or overnight connections, if one is so inclined)
* That also means the tour operators and tourists will continue to use SQ / TG / MH / CX / FD / etc
* There will be endless declarations of how nothing was our fault, we did everything right (we always do) and how Prafull and all of the state tax boards collectively conspired against us
Lather. Rinse. Repeat. |
Which tourists are you talking about? Indian tourists flying to SE Asia? Most of the SE Asian flights depart India between 11 pm and 3 am on all carriers, so it doesn't appear that those tourists are really that concerned. In fact, the red eyes are preferred because you arrive early in the morning at your destination and then have the whole day for "sopping, jovaana, phirwaana." SQ's mid-morning flight from BOM was always half empty while its red eye was always full.
Besides, I suspect that the CDG and Hanoi flights (should they ever be launched) will be targeted primarily to the French and the Vietnamese. If so, they better make sure the meal choices aren't just Indian Veg. and Indian non-veg.
Sufficeth to say, it doesn't appear that anyone's really that concerned about pax connecting from Jullunder, Bhopal or Trichy. Connections to other metros from DEL and BOM at 3 am, however, are a matter of concern. Regardless of how "swanky" T3 in DEL is, or T2 in BOM ends up, no one fancies hanging around there for 5 hours for a domestic connection. |
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jasepl
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Jaysit wrote: | | Which tourists are you talking about? |
The ones alluded to above. Where it was also implied that so many of these flights are a dead cert.
| Jaysit wrote: | | Most of the SE Asian flights depart India between 11 pm and 3 am on all carriers |
That is true. SQ and CX and TG and MH all have flights departing and arriving India at 1 am.
But those same flights arrive and depart their hubs at times that provide reasonable connections to as many destinations across their network as possible. Which is what nearly all network carriers with a clue do: time flights to maximise connections at civilised timings through their hub. Just not ours.
| Jaysit wrote: | | Besides, I suspect that the CDG and Hanoi flights (should they ever be launched) will be targeted primarily to the French and the Vietnamese. If so, they better make sure the meal choices aren't just Indian Veg. and Indian non-veg. |
There's so many existing options, from non-stop to milkman special. So why would the French or the Vietnamese flock to Jet? Even if Jet were thought of as being very good, they aren't that much better than all of the competition, which, by the way, will include not just the written-off AF and SU or the scavenging EK or QR. It will also include the likes of SQ, TG, MH and CX. Even Seoul and Shanghai aren't too far-fetched detours.
The way Jet will go about it, will be to sell tickets on the cheap to get bums in seats. And they will keep the plane sunning in Saigon for 14 hours a day, every day, to keep those bums in those seats. Then proudly proclaim "we carry more passengers between France and Vietnam than Air France and Vietnam Airlines combined". Amazingly forgetting that the backpack-toting Eurotrash they're chasing after equals trashy yields too.
Garbage in, garbage out.
| Jaysit wrote: | | Sufficeth to say, it doesn't appear that anyone's really that concerned about pax connecting from Jullunder, Bhopal or Trichy. Connections to other metros from DEL and BOM at 3 am, however, are a matter of concern. |
If not Srinagar to Saigon, then what about Lucknow to Johannesburg or Ahmedabad to Newark. It's not about one destination, is it? It's an entire network, where the pieces of the jigsaw need to fit together; or at least an attempt made.
Having incongruent flights and connections (and I use the term very loosely) does not a hub-and-spoke strategy make.
| Jaysit wrote: | | Regardless of how "swanky" T3 in DEL is, or T2 in BOM ends up, no one fancies hanging around there for 5 hours for a domestic connection. |
Amen.
And certainly not in the middle of the night.
Hence why, to borrow from Doordarshan of old, "Pudheel karyakram Dubai-hoon."
It's all moot anyway, because these hollow announcements are more fluff than reality, and all they really manage to achieve is to induce some (more) wood in the blinkered groupies.
These flights won't happen anytime soon. And I'll be happy to eat crow if they do.
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ameya
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:56 am Post subject: |
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I think flights to SGN from DEL would be around 13:00 dep,
they would try to connect it from Milan, Paris, London to say the lease and then also from the entire bank of BRU |
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me111993
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: |
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As far as SGN is concerned, they can do BOM-SGN-DEL-SGN-BOM, so basically they get BRU/LHR via BOM and MXP/LHR/CDG via DEL. Otherwise they'd end up connecting LHR/MXP/CDG only 1 way properly via DEL, unless they go double daily on DEL-LHR or something, in which case they connect SGN to LHR bothways.
And
9W has suspended TRV-SHJ from the 5th of May onwards. They've introduced an additional TRV-BOM flight instead. Rotation - TRV-BOM-TRV-DMM-TRV.
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ameya
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Wonder why TRV-SHJ is pulled out.
Atleast now the plane does something rather than baking itself in sun like it was doing before SHJ was introduced |
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me111993
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Jet's international average loadfactors for Febuary touched 85.9% as per their investor relations sheet yet they lost about 30 odd crores on intl ops in Feb.
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Nimish
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| me111993 wrote: | | Jet's international average loadfactors for Febuary touched 85.9% as per their investor relations sheet yet they lost about 30 odd crores on intl ops in Feb. |
Result of chasing the low-yield backpackers to BKK?
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me111993
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nimish wrote: | | me111993 wrote: | | Jet's international average loadfactors for Febuary touched 85.9% as per their investor relations sheet yet they lost about 30 odd crores on intl ops in Feb. |
Result of chasing the low-yield backpackers to BKK? |
Nope, very high fuel prices, and a few non performing routes.
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jasepl wrote: |
| Jaysit wrote: | | Most of the SE Asian flights depart India between 11 pm and 3 am on all carriers |
That is true. SQ and CX and TG and MH all have flights departing and arriving India at 1 am.
But those same flights arrive and depart their hubs at times that provide reasonable connections to as many destinations across their network as possible. Which is what nearly all network carriers with a clue do: time flights to maximise connections at civilised timings through their hub. Just not ours. |
But that isn't the point. The point is that Indian travelers prefer red eyes to SE Asia to maximize their foreign stays, and the market's been established as such.
And as far as late night hub and spoke flights go, SQ have a huge bank of flights from 11 pm to 2 am, as does EK.
There's geography and time zones and the cruising speed of subsonic jetliners, as well as aircraft utilization, and just plain old economics. You may want the earth to spin at a different rate, but that just aint gonna happen. |
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jasepl
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Nimish wrote: | | me111993 wrote: | | Jet's international average loadfactors for Febuary touched 85.9% as per their investor relations sheet yet they lost about 30 odd crores on intl ops in Feb. |
Result of chasing the low-yield backpackers to BKK? |
Of course not. Don't you know nothing Jet does is ever bad. Not in terms of quality, strategy, direction, identity or anything else.
Don't you know "we carry more trash to Bangkok than all the garbage trucks of the world combined"?
It's all the fault of Prafull and conspiring against Jet is the one thing that has brought all of the state chief ministers together. The only thing Mamta and Prithvi have ever agreed upon is to collude against Jet.
| me111993 wrote: | | Nope, very high fuel prices, and a few non performing routes. |
And... QED.
That is a very definitive statement to make. Based on what exactly? Intimate knowledge of the performance of each of Jet's flights? I think not.
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jasepl
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| Jaysit wrote: | And as far as late night hub and spoke flights go, SQ have a huge bank of flights from 11 pm to 2 am, as does EK.
There's geography and time zones and the cruising speed of subsonic jetliners, as well as aircraft utilization, and just plain old economics. You may want the earth to spin at a different rate, but that just aint gonna happen. |
True. But the SQs and EKs also have banks at breakfast time. And lunchtime. And teatime. And dinnertime. Throw in a few flights during elevenses for good measure.
Those two don't have a vast domestic market either.
Whatever timing our airlines choose, it will serve them well to build around one timeframe. The current situation means more and more otherwise happy Jet flyers will continue to flock to Emirates and Qatar for international travel, simply because of the reasonable connections they offer.
And I'm sorry, I refuse to accept for one second that India is in some special time zone spinning on its own axis independent from the rest of the world.
It's not about my personal preference (which isn't what I am advocating). Or about a handful of flights. It's about an entire network of a supposed hub-and-spoke airline and how it's squandering what should be a large, captive market.
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: |
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And how do you know what those backpackers you call "trash" pay? Do they pay more or less per mile than the average desi who flies from India to Europe? You don't know if you haven't seen the numbers.
Airlines like Emirates and Qatar and even the great SQ all made money - especially in their early years - ferrying tourists from A to B and C to D via Dubai and Doha and Bangkok. And they still do. At the end of the day, airlines want to put butts in seats, and if they do their yield management right, they'll make money with a mix of low-cost and premium travelers. QR's 77Ws are mostly people movers with small premium cabins. Their bread and butter is Y, but their reputation for good service and the accolades their premium classes receive, bring the millions who fly in the back for low fares.
The problem with Jet is that the promise of India as a low-cost base from which to run an airline has not exactly come to fruition. Labor costs for pilots (especially expat pilots), managers, technicians aren't quite competitive, fuel costs are astronomical, a lot of goods (soft goods and hardware) have to be imported, BOM and even the "swanky" DEL aren't exactly designed for efficient hub and spoke flights, and they're expensive to operate from. |
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jasepl
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:32 am Post subject: |
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That has largely been my point all along : Jet are not Emirates (they're not Biman either). They need to figure out what they are, what market they serve and act accordingly.
And that includes yield management and a complete re-jig of their cost/revenue ratios. Low fares at their costs are going to lead to even bigger problems than they have right now, and one would think they wouldn't need you or me or anyone else to tell them that.
As for Bangkok, Jet's front cabins are regularly empty. And they've had to resort to selling upgrades at BKK check-in for a long time now. To the point that they have a permanent sign of 2,000 baht to CCU and 3,000 to BOM/DEL. That should tell us at least part of the story right there.
| Jaysit wrote: | | The problem with Jet is that the promise of India as a low-cost base from which to run an airline has not exactly come to fruition. Labor costs for pilots (especially expat pilots), managers, technicians aren't quite competitive, fuel costs are astronomical, a lot of goods (soft goods and hardware) have to be imported, BOM and even the "swanky" DEL aren't exactly designed for efficient hub and spoke flights, and they're expensive to operate from. |
But none of these things are really new developments, are they?
Clearly what they've been doing isn't working, which means it's time for a change. Not to continue to do what they've been doing. Things don't always go according to plan. I get it. At some point you take stock and re-strategise (and that means more than excising one four-letter word).
And no, let's not assume they have done that. Sometimes the most obvious mistakes or solutions are overlooked; happens with the best of them.
But you're making it sound as if Jet themselves have no part in their own predicament.
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iah87
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Does Jet ever give complimentary or miles upgrades to its elite members, or do they always try to sell the upgrades.
For many this is the problem with Jet, not enough upgrades even on domestic sectors, even there are seats up front. |
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