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Jet Airways NEWS -- Part 6
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justbala
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
me111993 wrote:
but aren't you wasting an entire day sitting onboard?


Yes, but if you take the redeye from BOM to BRU, you're on a day flight back.

And if it's a morning flight out of India, it's a redeye back.

So you're going to have to give up a day in one direction or the other, regardless. Unless the planes sit and decorate even more tarmacs than just HKG and SIN.

And the 1 pm departure is worst of all - 2 days wasted at the India end - going out and on the return.


Seeing that you are tying up urselves in allkinda knots - travelling for a days work - erly morning flights are best suited - drive to airport, drop ur car, catch a flight .take an evening flight back and drive back.

But when u are flying international, very rarely is it for a day - plus u have a day long flight ahead of u..for someone who is headed to work outside, that is an utter waste of holiday - thts why wherever possible airlines do the "nast o clocks" flight - spend shuteye in flight and when u are up and about, spend it with ur loved ones (pref those who dont whineand bitch abt everthing in life, in tht case - i recommend taking day flights exclusively Wink )
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justbala
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9W seems to have stopped IFE on all domestic flights. PTVs will not be operational in the domestic sector.



The airline seems to be regressing back to the heydays of Konnect in 2009. Sad
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:
9W seems to have stopped IFE on all domestic flights. PTVs will not be operational in the domestic sector.



The airline seems to be regressing back to the heydays of Konnect in 2009. Sad


Is this cost related......
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justbala
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAWK21M wrote:
justbala wrote:
9W seems to have stopped IFE on all domestic flights. PTVs will not be operational in the domestic sector.



The airline seems to be regressing back to the heydays of Konnect in 2009. Sad


Is this cost related......


I would guess so - the cost of headsets (cleaning and replacing). Not sure if IFE license costs are involved.
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Jacobin777
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
At least in design and passenger comfort, Airbus nailed it. The typical Y and J layouts on all Airbus widebodies has been great.

Boeing, on the other hand, have been awful. With the exception of the 767, but then I doubt that it was their intention to factor in layout when it was designed.


The A345/A346 2-4-2 is horrible for a 16 hour flight. I've flown on EK's A345 and EY's A346 enough times. I've even spoken with random people on my flights and its amazing to hear the same complaints.

I have photos of my carry-on laptop where it couldn't even remotely fit on an A346 yet easily fit on both EK's and EY's B77W's-as well as AA's B752, etc.
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me111993
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This 2nd daily AMD-MAA flight is actually an AMD-MAA-TRV flight, the 737 sits at TRV all day before heading back to AMD.
But what it does do is that there will now be a 1755 departure fromTRV to MAA hence 9W will be able to Connect TRV to BRU/KUL/SIN via MAA both ways properly.


me111993 wrote:
Effective 24th of March, 9W is going double daily on AMD-MAA. Fantastic timings for business travellers both ways, basically, its a 6 am-ish departure from both AMD and MAA, and 2000 hr-ish departure from both AMD and MAA again.
They're basing 1 737 in AMD, and absolutely going head-onwith SG on AMD-MAA.

6 months ago, 9W/S2 at AMD -
* AMD-BOM 5-Daily
* AMD-DEL 1-Daily
* AMD-IDR-BHO-RPR-HYD 1-Daily

Now, 9W/ST at AMD -
* AMD-BOM 5-Daily
* AMD-DEL 3-Daily (1 flight via JAI)
* AMD-BLR 2-Daily (6 am S2 flight will soon be a 737-900ER service).
* AMD-MAA 3-Daily (338/489 come via BOM, rest nonstop).
* AMD-HYD 1-Daily Nonstop
* AMD-LKO 2-Daily (1 flight via DEL, other via IDR)
* AMD-CCU 1-Daily (via DEL, technically its 3 daily)
* AMD-IDR-LKO-PAT-CCU 1-Daily
* AMD-BHO-RPR-CCU 1-Daily
* AMD-JAI-IXJ 1-Daily

So thats 15 daily flights from 7 daily.

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jasepl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that there's any need for IFE on short domestic hops in the first place, but adding something and then taking it away is going to cause moaning and groaning.

But since they've already incurred the vast expense of installing the perfectly good equipment, what a waste to not use it.

I can understand how the penny-wide-pound-foolish baniyajis running the airline would be loath to pay a single paisa for anything that's absolutely unnecessary (except second-rate crockery), but surely they could make use of the equipment at no additional cost to generate a few hundred rupees.

Sell that space too. They can take money from Pan Parag and Nirodh Vaaparaa and Emirates Airlines and the tax department to play their ads on the screen throughout the duration of the flight.
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me111993
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not that there's any need for IFE on short domestic hops in the first place, but adding something and then taking it away is going to cause moaning and groaning.


it already is and this is what i'm not understanding; if you've already installed them, if the content in the IFE is already there, thenwhats the point of switching them off? They're still carrying the load of 154 IFE screens and thus burning additional fuel.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me111993 wrote:
it already is and this is what i'm not understanding; if you've already installed them, if the content in the IFE is already there, thenwhats the point of switching them off? They're still carrying the load of 154 IFE screens and thus burning additional fuel.


There are different types of licensing agreements for content; no idea what Jet have.

In general though, royalty fees factor in the size of the target audience. So if they're only showing it on x number of flights or to y number of passengers, then their royalty payments will definitely decrease.

Also, the royalty fees are not affected by load factor or number of flights flown or even by the number of times a particular programme was watched on a month-to-month basis. The additional cost is that of the headsets (which is why the like of Delta let you watch for free if you have your own headset).
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Spiderguy252
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This 9W IFE issue is the biggest joke that the Indian passenger has to endure in the last couple of years. By a long shot.

I guess we can conclude that the aviation sector in this country peaked as of 2007, in terms of service and profitability. Unfortunately it has been in steady decline since.

jasepl wrote:
Not that there's any need for IFE on short domestic hops in the first place, but adding something and then taking it away is going to cause moaning and groaning.


True this.
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justbala
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
which is why the like of Delta let you watch for free if you have your own headset.


BTW your golden standard of inflight service - DL, offers IFE only on international sector. On domestic you gotta pay to watch the IFE (per program)
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me111993
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The additional cost is that of the headsets (which is why the like of Delta let you watch for free if you have your own headset).


dunno about DL, but unlike AI or IT, 9W collects their headsets back at the end of the flight, so effectively you're not losing 154 per flight.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me111993 wrote:
dunno about DL, but unlike AI or IT, 9W collects their headsets back at the end of the flight, so effectively you're not losing 154 per flight.

True. So that brings the headset cost down even further, with cleaning (if they - or any airline - actually do that!) and repackaging. And miniscule as that cost should be, add to it the royalty fees and there is money to be saved, even if it may not amount to all that much.

Still, they're stuck with the moaning because of adding something unnecessary and then taking it away.

They really need to stop with the panicked quick-fixes that are unsustainable.

But, yeah, those ads are the way to go. They don't need sound or headsets or anything besides the already existing equipment and there is zero cost associated with them for Jet.

Just like you find at urinals all over the world.
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ameya
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do panic quick fixes when things are really bad.. and they are bad.. they are seriously looking at cutting people and all departments have been asked to submit revised lists of people they would want to have on the rolls
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but panicked quick fixes are meant to tide you over temporarily. Not to then sit back and watch things get even worse.

JetKonnect anyone?
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest doing the rounds is 9W B777s are going back......
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flyjet787
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAWK21M wrote:
Latest doing the rounds is 9W B777s are going back......


Back where? New lease to another airline? How many 777s does 9W own?
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me111993
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyjet787 wrote:
HAWK21M wrote:
Latest doing the rounds is 9W B777s are going back......


Back where? New lease to another airline? How many 777s does 9W own?


They own 10, operate 5, and 5 are leased out to TG.
They can manage 3 77W's, 5 makes it very difficult, 10 - impossible.
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flyjet787
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what do they plan to do with the excess 777s? Continue leasing them out or sell them?
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best bet: Sell all but three now. Sell the remaining three when the 333s are delivered.

PIA's looking for Ws, and they can afford them too, seeing how their poor taxpayers are screwed with the bill.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And Emirates' perennial diet consists of a healthy share of Ws. Shouldn't be a problem.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiderguy252 wrote:
And Emirates' perennial diet consists of a healthy share of Ws. Shouldn't be a problem.


Then even Jet's planes can Fly (for) Emirates !
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me111993
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Best bet: Sell all but three now. Sell the remaining three when the 333s are delivered.


Firstly, I don't really know the technicalities, but barring one, all of 9W's 77W's have been sold and leased back from various corporations.

Since Jet leases planes to various other carriers, and end up earning something themselves, I'd believe that the original lease continues with Jet and they then sub lease their own leases to TK/TG, so whatever the deal periods be, those 77W's will be Jet's liabilities til that deal period ends, unless they wish to prematurely terminate it.

Secondly, are we sure weather they'll be taking deliveries of the A333's? Even if they do, they would/should use them on BOM-EWR or BOM-HKG. Why compromise passengers an already well established LHR market?

If at all they're getting the A333's and plan to keep the 77Ws exactly as they are right now, then IMO, the A333's should be in a high density economy config, 18J, MAX. This way, they can send off VT-JWD/WE to IFLC, and have 2 of these 3 A333's operate the DEL-YYZ route. They should get better margins if an A333 operates this route, specially if AI does reduce frequencies on DEL-YYZ.

on the other hand, if they're sending off the 77W's, then they need to get these A333's in a high Business class configuration again, so as to properly support LHR/HKG.

Just my 2 cents.

and btw, I don't think EK is interested in 4-5 year old 77W's, at this moment.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't have to compromise, in that the product offered can be identical to that on the W; just fewer Y seats, which isn't really bad thing at all.

Ideally, they should do away with First and look into increase the Premiere seats. Maybe even sprucing up the J product.

With all of the added costs and complications involved, it really doesn't make sense to retain just three 777s, especially if they can't always fill them profitably. Best to go 332/333 and benefit from the commonality there. Nothing wrong with carrying fewer passengers if that means profit.

Easier said than done, of course. Because who knows all of the leasing and sub-leasing complexities. I certainly don't.
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me111993
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
They don't have to compromise, in that the product offered can be identical to that on the W; just fewer Y seats, which isn't really bad thing at all.

Ideally, they should do away with First and look into increase the Premiere seats. Maybe even sprucing up the J product.

With all of the added costs and complications involved, it really doesn't make sense to retain just three 777s, especially if they can't always fill them profitably. Best to go 332/333 and benefit from the commonality there. Nothing wrong with carrying fewer passengers if that means profit.

Easier said than done, of course. Because who knows all of the leasing and sub-leasing complexities. I certainly don't.


the bottom line is that, we may keep speculating, if IT does perish, they may even go a daily 77W on DEL-HKG and make BOM-EWR a proper A332 operation rather than the current muddle it is.

By the way, I have no clue as to how BOM-HKG performs, its damn easy to track F loads, which is why I know, their J performances have always been solid, Y would fill up during weekends if not during weekdays.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, too much speculation and too convoluted to be sure.

But they should keep the planes by all means only if they can fill them at a profit on more than just 2-3 routes. If not, let them go.

As for Kingfisher's impact, did anyone even fly them ? Surprised)
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me111993
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Yep, too much speculation and too convoluted to be sure.

But they should keep the planes by all means only if they can fill them at a profit on more than just 2-3 routes. If not, let them go.

As for Kingfisher's impact, did anyone even fly them ? Surprised)


The fact that they've not cancelled either of the LHR/HKG flights says out a lot of things! But wait isn't that speculation again? Wink
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@747-237/anybody, any idea about Jet's 737-900ER? The system still shows BOM-KWI/KTM as a 739 service from the 1st of March.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me111993 wrote:
The fact that they've not cancelled either of the LHR/HKG flights says out a lot of things! But wait isn't that speculation again? Wink

I wouldn't hold my breath on that. The Fat One's ego is bigger than all five of his non-existent 380s combined. And cutting Dhaka and Kolhapur is nowhere near as deflating as cutting London and Hong Kong.

That said, even if IT were to eat it, the last thing Jet should do is lay on more capacity. Best leave things as they are for a while, let profitability increase whilst keeping costs the same and see how things play out. It's not as if anyone else is about to beat them to it in the short term.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me111993 wrote:
@747-237/anybody, any idea about Jet's 737-900ER? The system still shows BOM-KWI/KTM as a 739 service from the 1st of March.


Nothing has shown up on my radar, so as to speak. Of course, you will be the first to know once it does.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Best bet: Sell all but three now. Sell the remaining three when the 333s are delivered.

PIA's looking for Ws, and they can afford them too, seeing how their poor taxpayers are screwed with the bill.


Too bad for 9W, PIA ordered theirs new.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2137
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiderguy252 wrote:
me111993 wrote:
Plus, I get the A380 outbound, the 773 (unfortunately not the W) inbound.


Not unfortunate at all, you can fly the W on any other carrier today and tomorrow, but the 773 is fairly rare.


A little off topic, but does EK operate their "A" version 772/773s on the BOM-DXB sector ?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jet Airways reports (21-Feb-2012) the following traffic highlights in Jan-2012:

Passenger numbers: 1.6 million, +27.5% year-
on-year;

Domestic: 1.1 million, +30.3%;
International: 518,680, +21.8%;
Passenger load factor: 82.4%, +1.6 ppts;

Domestic: 76.8%, +3.0 ppts;
International: 85.4%, +1.2 pp

if you download the PR pdf documents, one thing you'd notice is how the number of flights flown in January hase gone down in both domestic and international sectors showing that even Jet has been axing some poorly performing flights on a random basis.

747-237 wrote:
me111993 wrote:
@747-237/anybody, any idea about Jet's 737-900ER? The system still shows BOM-KWI/KTM as a 739 service from the 1st of March.


Nothing has shown up on my radar, so as to speak. Of course, you will be the first to know once it does.


thanks a lot. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear oh dear oh dear.

So it seems the clueless clowns over in Andheri have nominated themselves for Freddies in six categories:
* Best promotion for earning
* Best redemption ability
* Best customer service
* Best elite programme
* Best loyalty credit card
* Programme of the year

It's comic they actually think JetPunishment is best at anything, except perhaps the ability to earn points, at least in terms of quantity of not quantity. Soon, one will probably be able to earn Jet points for using the neighbourhood Sulabh Shochalay, if not possible already.

They're more pathetic than a bad joke, at best, in all six categories (unless one counts "Fly Emirates" as a promotion).
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

747-237 wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
me111993 wrote:
Plus, I get the A380 outbound, the 773 (unfortunately not the W) inbound.


Not unfortunate at all, you can fly the W on any other carrier today and tomorrow, but the 773 is fairly rare.


A little off topic, but does EK operate their "A" version 772/773s on the BOM-DXB sector ?


That's right. The 772s are from the 90s.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spiderguy252 wrote:
747-237 wrote:
A little off topic, but does EK operate their "A" version 772/773s on the BOM-DXB sector ?


That's right. The 772s are from the 90s.


So, the answer to my question is a yes ?
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747-237
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Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 11366
Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/jet-airways-eyes-cfmi-engines-to-expand-fleet/articleshow/11996761.cms

Jet Airways eyes CFMI engines to expand fleet

22 Feb, 2012

Jet Airways said it is working with CFM International to deploy next generation propulsion systems to power its fleet as and when it expands domestic and international network.

"We are very happy to have worked closely with CFMI as a partner since 1993 and look forward for more fruitful affiliation in the years to come as Jet Airways plans to expand its domestic and international network," Jet CEO Nikos Kardassis said.

CFMI is currently developing ultra-high technology "green" engines for next generation aircraft, which is expected to help reduce fuel burn and bring down carbon emissions.

"CFMI is proud of its association with Jet through the years and is especially happy about the achievement of the airline having clocked over three million operational flying hours on CFM56 engines. We look forward to achieving many more important milestones with Jet in future," CFMI Engines president and CEO Jean-Paul Ebanga said.

Jet Airways said it has completed over three million operating hours on CFM56 engines manufactured by CFM International, barely a few months after the airline inducted its 100th aircraft.

CFM International is a joint venture between GE Aviation, a division of General Electric and Snecma, a division of Safran of France. The joint venture was formed to build and support the CFM56 series of jet engines.

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justbala
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1898
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Dear oh dear oh dear.

So it seems the clueless clowns over in Andheri have nominated themselves for Freddies in six categories:
* Best promotion for earning
* Best redemption ability
* Best customer service
* Best elite programme
* Best loyalty credit card
* Programme of the year

It's comic they actually think JetPunishment is best at anything, except perhaps the ability to earn points, at least in terms of quantity of not quantity. Soon, one will probably be able to earn Jet points for using the neighbourhood Sulabh Shochalay, if not possible already.

They're more pathetic than a bad joke, at best, in all six categories (unless one counts "Fly Emirates" as a promotion).


Unlike bourgeoisie elites, who redeem only for the sake of flying to "phoren" locales in Business /First class, 9W's redemption process for domestic flights is one of the best that I have seen. So yeah, they are a candidate for the award, no matter what convoluted whines bund-bay residents have.
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Spiderguy252
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Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4259
Location: Indian Ocean

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

747-237 wrote:
Spiderguy252 wrote:
747-237 wrote:
A little off topic, but does EK operate their "A" version 772/773s on the BOM-DXB sector ?


That's right. The 772s are from the 90s.


So, the answer to my question is a yes ?


Yep.
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jasepl
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 4257
Location: bund-bay

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

747-237 wrote:
jasepl wrote:
Best bet: Sell all but three now. Sell the remaining three when the 333s are delivered.

PIA's looking for Ws, and they can afford them too, seeing how their poor taxpayers are screwed with the bill.


Too bad for 9W, PIA ordered theirs new.

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2137


Oh crap. Alitalia then? Aren't they thinking of getting some second-hand Ws?
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