Airliners-India.com Flickr Group & Facebook    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  First look at Air India's 787-8s Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10          Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> Civil Aviation View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: sumantra wrote: Crew familiarisation is one part, where the intention is to do as many take-offs and touch-downs as possible, but I simply do not get the economics of flying such a large plane on such a short route. Am I missing something here? Even for crew familiarization, most airlines fly airplanes only to destinations where there are better loads/yields. For instance, AF first flew its A380s on the CDG-LHR route, and SQ flew them on SIN-HKG, both high yielding sectors. I really doubt AI is going to do DEL-LKO with the 787. It is more likely to be DEL-BOM/MAA/BLR. But then again, we are talking about AI here. Anything is possible! _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top Spiderguy252 Member Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Regardless, I'd like to see heavy advertising on whatever the sector is, particularly if it's an inter-metro route (Which it ideally should be, but that's another debate). It's a clear step up in capacity, comfort and entertainment from the A320s or B737s that the domestic carriers fly, and AI must make sure it gets as many bums on the 787's seats as possible. The only other time an airline has done something like this in our skies has been 9W, who've been using 332s as repositioning flights between DEL, BOM and MAA occasionally. And I recall adverts to the effect in the past. _________________ Yeah. Back to top rutvij Member Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1390 Location: Skies of Fire! Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: AFAIK, the sectors in contention are indeed high yielding ones. DEL-BLR/COK/CCU/MAA. DEL-BOM is also one very high capacity sector, but given the competition on the route, they may not be performing well on this sector. I felt this as my Mom's flight was routed BOM-JAI-DEL a few months back, and there were only about 8 flights for the day. Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: sumantra wrote: Crew familiarisation is one part, where the intention is to do as many take-offs and touch-downs as possible, but I simply do not get the economics of flying such a large plane on such a short route. Am I missing something here? Well - this is just a rumour, not sure that DEL-LKO will indeed be a sustained or even the first route. And even if it is, it's probably a drop in the ocean of AI's losses. _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top flyjet787 Member Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 282 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: B 787 OPERATION The first 787 aircraft is planned to undertake the following flights from 19 SEP: AI 439/430 DEL 0610 MAA 0850/1045 DEL 1325 AI 403/404 DEL 1630 BLR 1910/2010 DEL 2245 The second 787 aircraft is planned to undertake the following flights from 24 SEP : AI 803/505 DEL 0615 BLR 0835/0935 DEL 1205 AI 020/764 DEL 1320 CCU 1535/1700 DEL 1910 AI 995/996 DEL 2025 DXB 2220/0005+1 DEL 0445+1 Back to top rutvij Member Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 1390 Location: Skies of Fire! Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:59 am    Post subject: ^ Thanks a lot flyjet787! You really lived up to your name! Spotters, gear up! AvThusiasts, pack up! Back to top aeroblogger Member Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: flyjet787 wrote: B 787 OPERATION The first 787 aircraft is planned to undertake the following flights from 19 SEP: AI 439/430 DEL 0610 MAA 0850/1045 DEL 1325 AI 403/404 DEL 1630 BLR 1910/2010 DEL 2245 The second 787 aircraft is planned to undertake the following flights from 24 SEP : AI 803/505 DEL 0615 BLR 0835/0935 DEL 1205 AI 020/764 DEL 1320 CCU 1535/1700 DEL 1910 AI 995/996 DEL 2025 DXB 2220/0005+1 DEL 0445+1 Schedule has been scrapped. Back to square one. _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger Back to top sumantra Member Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 4685 Location: New Delhi Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:36 am    Post subject: Yes, some time after posting the DEL-LKO one, I too got wind of the 19 and 24 Sep one posted above, but some time after that...I guess the situation in AI flight planning Ops is too fluid to rush in and spread a rumour (just as I did), where Angels would fear to tread. I hope this gets stabilised soon, and announced, and advertised as well. Yes, the DEL-MAA/DEL-BLR sectors should be nice from the load-distance-fuel burn point of view. Cheers, Sumantra. Back to top aeroblogger Member Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:44 am    Post subject: sumantra wrote: Yes, some time after posting the DEL-LKO one, I too got wind of the 19 and 24 Sep one posted above, but some time after that...I guess the situation in AI flight planning Ops is too fluid to rush in and spread a rumour (just as I did), where Angels would fear to tread. I hope this gets stabilised soon, and announced, and advertised as well. Yes, the DEL-MAA/DEL-BLR sectors should be nice from the load-distance-fuel burn point of view. Cheers, Sumantra. The latest schedule delay is because IPG and ICPA are bickering over whether the aircraft should be DEL or BOM based. As if this was announced yesterday by AI. I would have thought that they might have gotten the memo over a year ago? AICCA has also just thrown in a list of demands, so this schedule is going nowhere anytime soon. _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger Back to top aeroblogger Member Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: 787 EIS is indefinitely delayed until the pilot situation gets sorted out. If things keep going the way they are right now, another strike in the horizon wouldn't be surprising. Ajit Singh's wet dream I guess. _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger Back to top jasepl Member Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Oh yay ! More taxpayer money wasted, thanks to AI's thieving, entitled employees. But hold on a minute. We were told - time and again - that, in isolation : AI management are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI schedules are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI maintenance is awful. But AI = fantastic. AI customer service is awful. But AI = fantastic. AI passengers are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI pilots are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI ground services are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI mantri-babu brigade are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI website is awful. But AI = fantastic. AI cabin crew are awful. But AI = fantastic. AI IRROPS handling is awful. But AI = fantastic. AI premium service is awful. But AI = fantastic. _____________________________________ End result : Air India are the most fantastic thing to happen to humankind since the Messiah supposedly saved us from our sins. (and everything is Prafull's fault, from AI's losses to crew behaviour) That said, why am I not surprised? [size="4"][COLOR="Red"]DIE AI, DIE ![/COLOR][/size] _________________ four years free of jetya punti! Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: aeroblogger wrote: The latest schedule delay is because IPG and ICPA are bickering over whether the aircraft should be DEL or BOM based. As if this was announced yesterday by AI. I would have thought that they might have gotten the memo over a year ago? AICCA has also just thrown in a list of demands, so this schedule is going nowhere anytime soon. This gives me hope! Another strike during the current MoCA will result in even stricter action (hopefully) and we can see the troublemaking lot moved out. Even as a regular employee of a technology company, I sign a contract that says that my employment location is currently BLR and might change at will. It's a wonder that Pilots (a highly "mobile" job if there ever was one) are now bitching about moving from BOM to DEL - it's not even like DEL's cost of living is higher - it's much lower than BOM. And we understand there might be family/ kids/ school and so on, but remember, in the army/ railways/ govt. services/ banks etc. moving cities every 2 years is the norm. Why is this lot of govt. employees (AI pilots) different from the rest (say a railways manager or technical staff)? _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top jasepl Member Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:37 am    Post subject: Nimish wrote: This gives me hope! Another strike during the current MoCA will result in even stricter action (hopefully) and we can see the troublemaking lot moved out. Can we realistically expect that to happen? Of the hundreds of pilots that struck work recently, after all the song and dance, how many ended up being reinstated as if nothing had ever happened? I don't know the number for sure, but I suspect it will be rather close to zero, once all is said and done. The one good thing to come of another strike is that you and I will have a few crores less of our hard-earned money wasted by Air India. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! Back to top rajeev.jaya Member Joined: 27 Aug 2012 Posts: 193 Location: Chennai Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:38 am    Post subject: aeroblogger wrote: flyjet787 wrote: B 787 OPERATION The first 787 aircraft is planned to undertake the following flights from 19 SEP: AI 439/430 DEL 0610 MAA 0850/1045 DEL 1325 AI 403/404 DEL 1630 BLR 1910/2010 DEL 2245 The second 787 aircraft is planned to undertake the following flights from 24 SEP : AI 803/505 DEL 0615 BLR 0835/0935 DEL 1205 AI 020/764 DEL 1320 CCU 1535/1700 DEL 1910 AI 995/996 DEL 2025 DXB 2220/0005+1 DEL 0445+1 Schedule has been scrapped. Back to square one. When can we get the new schedule and suggest DEL-HYD as one of the routes becuase this route traditionally giving high yeilds to AI _________________ Rajeev Back to top aeroblogger Member Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Nimish wrote: It's a wonder that Pilots (a highly "mobile" job if there ever was one) are now bitching about moving from BOM to DEL - it's not even like DEL's cost of living is higher - it's much lower than BOM. I see no reason why the pilots should have to move. Under the commuting agreement they have, they are responsible to be at work on time, and the commuting costs are covered by the employee. AI has no business to be micromanaging the lives of its employees - as long as they turn up at work when they need to, why does it matter where they live? _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11351 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: One of the Air India print ads, with a picture of VT-ANI, similar to the one used in the Boeing / Air India press release. A similar ad by Boeing in the Times of India apprently had the registration blanked out. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India. Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Out of curiosity, I was checking fares for BLR-DEL-BLR on the 19/23 Sep - to fly on the 787. The fares that came up were really interesting (return fare, Y class). _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top Spiderguy252 Member Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Nice ad that, but I was referring to them advertising the use of the 787s on the select domestic routes towards the end of this month. Then again, they haven't got the slightest idea themselves. _________________ Yeah. Back to top Caliguy Member Joined: 14 Nov 2007 Posts: 723 Location: Los Angeles Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Two things: 1) Is the picture of the business class different than the initial pictures we saw of C class with those red seats and white head rest area? Seems like they are different in looks. 2) I can't believe these AI pilots. I understand that things don't always go the way you want, but are they really debating if the plane should be BOM or DEL based? Its not their call. The hub was moved to DEL that's it. Either commute, move or quit. Between the pilots and the GOI's brilliant way of negotiating for 787 compensation, AI is the biggest joke in the airline world (makes Aeroflot of the soviet days look like a great airline). Remember the pilots sent that letter to STAR right before STAR backed out. AI and its staff are quickly becoming one rotten organization. Oh and pilots still upgrade friends to business class from coach. A good family friend gets upgraded twice a year flying BOM-EWR-BOM and they are NOT even related to the pilot. 3) So all we need now is for the GOI to announce a massive increase in seats to EK and QR. Nail in the coffin... Back to top Jaysit Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 4346 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Caliguy wrote: Two things: 1) Is the picture of the business class different than the initial pictures we saw of C class with those red seats and white head rest area? Seems like they are different in looks. The pictures in that lousy ad are just stock photos that AI's "ad department" (or their advertizing contractor) cut out from a magazine article on the 787 or a Boeing ad and plonked it into their own ad. Typical AI laziness and lack of professionalism. Back to top aeroblogger Member Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:57 am    Post subject: Caliguy wrote: 2) I can't believe these AI pilots. I understand that things don't always go the way you want, but are they really debating if the plane should be BOM or DEL based? Its not their call. The hub was moved to DEL that's it. Either commute, move or quit. MoCA/mgmt is antagonizing the pilots by refusing to allow them to commute - "Delhi address or resign" is how the IPG rep put it. I agree with you completely - but as long as the pilots show up at work on time, AI has no place to be micromanaging their lives. _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger Back to top amd_flyer Member Joined: 24 Jun 2007 Posts: 156 Location: AMD Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:22 am    Post subject: Nimish wrote: Out of curiosity, I was checking fares for BLR-DEL-BLR on the 19/23 Sep - to fly on the 787. The fares that came up were really interesting (return fare, Y class). Nimish - this is not new. Back in Deccans heyday , I have flown AMD-CJB and Amd-BLR cheaper on 9W (full service) than DN. At that time, i thought that many people never checked 9Ws rates as they expected 9W to be far higher than DN. Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11351 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: The Prime Minister and the Civil Aviation Minister are to "officially launch" the first Dreamliner, at a function at DEL on 9/12. Perhaps this is the official Govt of India celebrations for the 787 induction. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India. Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11351 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Finally ..... VT-ANH makes her first commercial revenue flight on Wednesday, 9/19, with two routes on that day: DEL-BLR and DEL-MAA. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India. Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11351 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: VT-ANH is scheduled to land at BOM for the first time tomorrow, Thursday 9/13 on a 3-day visit. At the moment, BOM ETA approx 0900-1100 IST. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India. Back to top ameya Member Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 3671 Location: Pune,Maharashtra Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: VT-ANH is scheduled to land at BOM for the first time tomorrow, Thursday 9/13 on a 3-day visit. At the moment, BOM ETA approx 0900-1100 IST. Why is this non revenue roaming around for the plane ? Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11351 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: Perhaps this is the official Govt of India celebrations for the 787 induction. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India. Back to top Spiderguy252 Member Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:59 pm    Post subject: I wonder if they would have gone through all of this fanfare had it been some other aircraft inducted into the fleet? I know they made a huge event when the first 77L came on-line, but I suspect that was more due to unveiling the 'New Air India' brand at the time. What if VT-ANH was an A330-200? Would there still be all this tamasha? I would think not. _________________ Yeah. Back to top aeroblogger Member Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Spiderguy252 wrote: I wonder if they would have gone through all of this fanfare had it been some other aircraft inducted into the fleet? I know they made a huge event when the first 77L came on-line, but I suspect that was more due to unveiling the 'New Air India' brand at the time. What if VT-ANH was an A330-200? Would there still be all this tamasha? I would think not. It's because it is a brand new fleet. If AI inducted the Q400, there still would be fanfare... _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger Back to top Jaysit Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 4346 Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:15 am    Post subject: Spiderguy252 wrote: I wonder if they would have gone through all of this fanfare had it been some other aircraft inducted into the fleet? I know they made a huge event when the first 77L came on-line, but I suspect that was more due to unveiling the 'New Air India' brand at the time. What if VT-ANH was an A330-200? Would there still be all this tamasha? I would think not. No, nor should there be. The 787's arrival in the fleets of JL, NH, ET, LAN and UA has been feted and deservedly so. It's a radically new aircraft that's been hyped sky high for the past 6+ years, not to mention the fact that it's been delayed by 3. Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11351 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: Please continue in thread : First look at Air India's 787-8s - Part II http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/viewtopic.php?p=117706#117706 Folks, may I once again request that we stick to the debut of the Air India 787s in this thread. Thanks. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India. Back to top Aseem Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: this thread is being locked as new edition is now available. 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