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Phadnis
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Joined: 03 Jul 2008
Posts: 204
Location: Mumbai, India
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 Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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A rather succinct and correct analysis there, tayaramecanici.
I'm genuinely confused by the sort of moronic tirades launched by some forum members, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, and most of which seem eager to attack me personally.
All I have said is, there are thousands of rather hardworking people at AI who have concerns about the merger. However, the employees aren't wilfully obstructing the merger. By tayaramecanici's estimate of 20% honest workers from a workforce of 35,000, that makes it about 7,000 honest people working within the organization. They are concerned about what the merger could entail. Seeing as we live in a democracy, they have every right to express those concerns. At no point did I say that Air India/Indian Airlines is the greatest airline in the world, or even close to it. Or that it must be continuously funded by taxpayer money (that's for you, Jaysit, and when was the last time you paid taxes to the Indian Revenue Service? Or does the Internal Revenue Service send half of it's accrued receipts to Air India?). I do not argue that every single employee working there is dedicated (in fact, I agree that well over half lack any real work ethic). Or that Air India's own mistakes have nothing to do with the current mess. Far from it.
None of my opinions stated above appear fanciful or fictitious to me. None of them warrant the kind of ridiculous attack of half-baked satire that you lot have mounted.
And Nimish, if you plan to send me a personal message regarding this post, please note that I shall delete it without reading, so save yourself the energy. And spare me the sermons on forum rules. I'm not interested.
_________________
The way I see it, you can either work for a living or you can fly airplanes. Me, I'd rather fly.
Last edited by Phadnis on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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avbuff
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Phadnis wrote: | | I'm genuinely confused by the sort of moronic tirades launched by some forum members, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with what I posted, and most of which seem eager to attack me personally. (Personal attacks removed by Nimish) |
Who started all of this?
I have NEVER attacked you personally. Point out a single place where I attacked you on your name, profession, university or whatever. First of all I don't have any idea about your name, profession, school/university you are going/been to; just know that your father work for AI (which I beleive you posted yourself in a recent discussion). You somehow get this vicarious thrill of bringing on ERAU, my curriculum and everything into the discussion.
| Phadnis wrote: | | And Nimish, if you plan to send me a personal message regarding this post, please note that I shall delete it without reading, so save yourself the energy. And (beep) your sermons on the forum rules. I'm not interested. |
Well, everything is summarized here and it is a testimony that you belong to the 30% of the group described by tayaramecanici.
This is not some sakari adda and nor is it any extension of Air India where your interests will be taken care of for the rest of your lives.. As the majority in the organisation treat AI as "baap ka maal" that attitude cannot be extended outside the AI cocoon. |
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Phadnis
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Posts: 204
Location: Mumbai, India
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| avbuff wrote: | Well, everything is summarized here and it is a testimony that you belong to the 30% of the group described by tayaramecanici.
This is not some sakari adda and nor is it any extension of Air India where your interests will be taken care of for the rest of your lives.. As the majority in the organisation treat AI as "baap ka maal" that attitude cannot be extended outside the AI cocoon. |
Allow me to clarify, my dear fellow, the 30% group coined by tayaramecanici is in reference to Air India employees. I am not employed by Air India in any capacity. I merely happen to be related to someone who is employed by Air India. I do not take the airline's privileges for granted. Indeed, I'm grateful to the airline for all it has given me over the years, and I feel privileged to be associated with it. Yes, read it slowly.
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The way I see it, you can either work for a living or you can fly airplanes. Me, I'd rather fly.
Last edited by Phadnis on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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avbuff
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Phadnis wrote: | | (Personal attacks removed by Nimish) |
(Personal attacks removed by Nimish) |
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Phadnis
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Location: Mumbai, India
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| avbuff wrote: | | Your father works for AI right? |
Indeed, yes. What about it?
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The way I see it, you can either work for a living or you can fly airplanes. Me, I'd rather fly. |
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Spiderguy252
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is definitely drifting away from the topic here.........
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Yeah. |
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tayaramecanici
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Can i request the mods not to suspend or pull up any posters for losing their rag, especially whilst the mods are also involved in the discussion..................conflict of interests.
Phadnis to maintain the quality of the discussion, may i request you to correct any unforumly(my dictionary) language.
AI i thought is the airline name of NACIL now. All of IA/AI is termed as AI post merger. |
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Nimish
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| tayaramecanici wrote: | | Can i request the mods not to suspend or pull up any posters for losing their rag, especially whilst the mods are also involved in the discussion..................conflict of interests. |
Any mod found violating the forum rules is liable to be suspended and then face action. Rules are rules - applicable equally for everyone.
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We miss you Nalini! |
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Nimish
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| tayaramecanici wrote: | t is interesting to analyse the make-up of the present AI employees, this will give you a understanding on the quantum of and quality of calibre left within that organisation.
It was 1977 when morarji pvt AI. Since then from being a responsibile manager/director a culture of diminished responsibility has set in, with no one held accountable for the continued decline.
The staff present in AI is made-up of 3 categories in the ratio of 5:3:2.
...
Right now you can see that the present govt cannot justify the survival of this milk cow feeding 35000 useless indians at the cost of $3-4b. Especially when the same amount can be spent on Health, Water, Sanitation or Infrastructure for improving the lot of over a couple of millions. The political commentary within India is focused on this airline, as a test of the UPA govts resolve to pvt industry.
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TM - the numbers are scary if they are true. Imagine trying to get your car to work with only 1 cylinder firing - not gonna happen!
$3-4b is being justified on account of being useful during "national emergencies" and "Hajj"!!! Rather amusing IMO.
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Nimish
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Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Phadnis wrote: | | However, the employees aren't wilfully obstructing the merger. By tayaramecanici's estimate of 20% honest workers from a workforce of 35,000, that makes it about 7,000 honest people working within the organization. They are concerned about what the merger could entail. Seeing as we live in a democracy, they have every right to express those concerns. |
Well - if the honest employees are worried about what the merger could "entail", then I'm truly "shocked and awed". I thought the ones worried about the merger were the 30%+50%, and the best 20% of the employees would have welcomed an opportunity to truly make a mark with a possible world class airline.
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We miss you Nalini! |
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me111993
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Common guys give it a break. Ojas, phandis and Nimish, you are very senior members and such irresponsible comments are not appretiated or expected from you guys. I know that there is a general dislike towards AI because of the way the merger was handled and also a great deal of the blame for the failed merger is attributed to AI and IC's emps but it was in general terms and even though your father works for AI phandis, you shouldn't have got this worked up.
Discussing and experssing opinions is what we do here and things are bound to get heated up but it should be ensured that none of that discussion goes to a personal level.
AI has been a huge dissappoinment in terms of the descisions they have made and for the poor management of the merger but it should be kept in mind that a lot of the descisions are heavily politically influenced.
Please guys nomore of this arguement, what Nimish and Ojas wrote about AI's emps was not entirely wrong but it was not directed towards your dad phandis. On the other hand, Ojas and Nimish you guys took the wrong turn by going at the emps of AI, there are a lot more problems there and plus a vast majority of emps in govt offices have the same problem. This is not a problem of the people but of the govt norms, which provide extra security or rather remove the fear of competing for their posts and jobs.
Please note, every comment mentioned above is in general with no reference to any particular person...
Cheers
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iah87
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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The discussion of pro and anti AI is amusing...especially about Neptune and a rock. Just FYI, Neptune is a gas planet and there are no rocks there.
Seriously, members of this forum and the flying public in general in India are concerned are staggering losses of NACIL and continues to mount with no end in sight.
There are other airlines losing money, look at Kingfisher losses at 30% of the revenue.
But Kingfisher is privately owned and even Mallya cannot sustain these losses for too long, but at Kingfisher your wages can get cut and employees are being laid off continuously as the airline is trying to cut the losses.
Unlike the Defense department and railways, AI is not a critical company important to the security and general welfare of the residents of India, for GOI to continue to subsidize. There are private alternatives. While I do not want AI to shut down, but at some point, AI has to shrink drastically and atleast come close to break even. |
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rhumbline
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| tayaramecanici wrote: | t is interesting to analyse the make-up of the present AI employees, this will give you a understanding on the quantum of and quality of calibre left within that organisation.
It was 1977 when morarji pvt AI. Since then from being a responsibile manager/director a culture of diminished responsibility has set in, with no one held accountable for the continued decline.
The staff present in AI is made-up of 3 categories in the ratio of 5:3:2.
50% can't care a rats aŁ$e if the a/c flies/grounded, pax get scalded by burning coffee or gassed to death in its stinking toilets. They are bloody sure to get their monthly wages, free bees and bounty of loot from the company stores. This lot can't be bothered to look for another job if AI was shut down, this is the only wretched organisation on the face of this earth that this lot could have ever found employment.
30% are made up of sons and daughters of AI employees, bureaucrats etc etc. This lot consider it their birth right to be in AI. Operations dept which incl Flt deck crew and Cabin have the max number of this lot. 3/4 of this lot would fail to get employment in another airline and has to hang on to dear life AI for survival. I had come across one such employee, a Lady pilot, daughter of a ex-IAC director of Ops. She got her wings at Nagpur flying club and the instructor would always grumble about her flying skills and how she has managed to get thru because of daddy dear. Many years Later, after i had given up my plans for flying, i heard this bird being pulled up by DXB ATC as she took-off (A310) straight into a CX (B747F) landing into DXB. She was not cleared by the ATC for T/O, she was on a route check.
20% is made up of honest workers, who have a simple and healthy policy in life. They come to work, do their duties to the best of their ability and go home. They try not to get disturbed by the work enviourment. They have their own domestic reasons for not leaving AI, a child in school, college, ailing relatives etc. The airline tiks over because of this lot.
I joined AI in 1987 and then itself there was a strong feeling of the airline dying a slow death. AI has survived since then only because of realpolitik where every new govt saw it as a Milking cow. PP was the latest with the B777 orders. To make matters worse the continued fall of AI has seen the consequent rise of EK and 9W which have exploited this politico-bureacrat corruption malaise to their advantage.
Right now you can see that the present govt cannot justify the survival of this milk cow feeding 35000 useless indians at the cost of $3-4b. Especially when the same amount can be spent on Health, Water, Sanitation or Infrastructure for improving the lot of over a couple of millions. The political commentary within India is focused on this airline, as a test of the UPA govts resolve to pvt industry.
Soon the Frogs (employees) in the Pond(AI) will realise there is a world outside, harsh or good depending on their individual calibre. |
tayaramecanici; Thank you for bringing an insider's perspective on this issue
People on this forum seem to conveniently choose to ignore the posts that try and expose the real issues or pose real questions. Posters here seem to be more interested in creating dogfights and throwing around generic terms like shareholder rights, free market , competition, moronic employees etc about which they have little knowledge or understanding.
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rhumbline
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Phadnis wrote: |
(Personal attacks removed by Nimish) |
(post in response to deleted comments itself deleted)
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tayaramecanici
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| Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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It is not that AI is without parallels in the developed or western world.
Here in EU you have Alitalia and Olympic airways. Alitalia is breathing its last and Olympic airways is likely to be shut down with a new operator under the name of Olympic Air starting ops.
The above 2 are examples of things to be expected within AI aswell.
For many among the 80% they are sure they will not survive outside of the present set-up and will try every means possible to thwart any attempt at privatising this co. For the 20% they will carry on within AI owned by GOI or Pvt. |
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Phadnis
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Posts: 204
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| iah87 wrote: | The discussion of pro and anti AI is amusing...especially about Neptune and a rock. Just FYI, Neptune is a gas planet and there are no rocks there.
Seriously, members of this forum and the flying public in general in India are concerned are staggering losses of NACIL and continues to mount with no end in sight.
There are other airlines losing money, look at Kingfisher losses at 30% of the revenue.
But Kingfisher is privately owned and even Mallya cannot sustain these losses for too long, but at Kingfisher your wages can get cut and employees are being laid off continuously as the airline is trying to cut the losses.
Unlike the Defense department and railways, AI is not a critical company important to the security and general welfare of the residents of India, for GOI to continue to subsidize. There are private alternatives. While I do not want AI to shut down, but at some point, AI has to shrink drastically and atleast come close to break even. |
Well, the core of Neptune is made of rock  But what the heck.
You see, my argument was largely in defence, as it were, of a certain section of employees, and not necessarily addressing whether AI should continuously be propped up by the government. In fact, I'm all for privatization. It's the only way to rescue AI. But I was merely saying that there are people who may have concerns, and they have a right to voice those concerns and have them heard. As simple as that. What happens thereafter is immaterial.
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The way I see it, you can either work for a living or you can fly airplanes. Me, I'd rather fly. |
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| rhumbline wrote: | | (Personal attacks removed by Nimish) |
(Post in response to deleted text deleted) |
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Boeing7xx
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Kinda late ... but chiming in nonetheless.... Its quite easy for everyone to point fingers at the state run airline, simply because it is run by the state.... Let's not forget that all airlines have their troubles and some tide over them and some don't. Its called the cycle of life. The state run airline in India is no different.
I'm not against privatization, but it's the flavour of the day today, and I believe that is not the answer to the problem that the airline faces today. Some other day, maybe yes, but not today.
As for attitude and flying decorum.... Hell, no one wants to risk a sarkari naukri remember... so you can be twice as sure that even if there was a shard of doubt in the AME's mind, he would ground the aircraft, than risk his naukri.
In defence of the one who signs my paycheck.... I believe that this is a phase that we should tide over as well... Its but a matter of time and will. |
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rhumbline
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Jaysit wrote: | | Deleted post |
Once again you just highlight my previous point
You chose to ignore all of tyramecanici's insightful posts and previous relevant questions raised by me, and selectively responded to my one non aviation post. (Personal attacks removed by Nimish)
As an aside university reputation doesn't mean that the people who pass out know jack shit -> Case in point your former president GW Bush from Harvard
or a crook case in point Kenneth Lay Enron (HBS)
(Personal attacks removed by Nimish) I'd rather look at a professional aviation resource in case I am looking for 'validity' not an anonymous forum on internet.
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Phadnis
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaysit wrote: | | Deleted post |
(Personal attacks removed by Nimish)
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The way I see it, you can either work for a living or you can fly airplanes. Me, I'd rather fly. |
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avbuff
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Phadnis wrote: | | Post Deleted |
(Personal attacks removed by Nimish) |
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Nimish
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Guys - please follow the forum rules and no personal attacks. If anyone (yes - including me) violates forum rules, please report to the mods with the rules you think were violated.
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We miss you Nalini! |
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sri_bom
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:43 am Post subject: |
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The amount of energy that is see spent debating on who is right and wrong, I wish if our babus and employees had half of that positive energy that way at least Air India could have been saved….
Sri_Bom |
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iah87
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Monday, November 02, 2009
AI Mumbai-Delhi flights get sky marshals after terror alert
New Delhi: Every Air India flight between Delhi and Mumbai had sky marshals onboard on Sunday, a week after one of the airline's call centres in Delhi received an email threatening a terror strike on November 1.
"The email specifically said an IC flight will be the target on November 1. This information was passed on to the Bureau of Civil Aviation Security (BCAS) as perthe rules," said a senior Air India official.
The threat threw security and intelligence agencies into a tizzy in Delhi as several VIPs and Bollywood stars, including Shah Rukh Khan, were scheduled to take part in the half-marathon in the capital on Sunday.
Refusing to divulge details of the email, the Air India official said the cyber cell of the police is probing the case.
After going through the contents of the email, the BCAS put all international airports, including Mumbai and Delhi, on high alert. CISF officials confirmed that the airports had deployed heavy security after the terror mail was received a week ago.
02/11/09 Yogesh Kumar/Daily News & Analysis
Why did the air marshals concentrate on AI only, the terrorists could have targeted other airlines flying BOM-DEL too. |
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sri_bom
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Air India and UAE's Aerostar Asset Management signed (02-Nov-2009) an alliance agreement establishing an engine MRO brand "A Team". Directed initially for the Middle East Market, the alliance will provide engine repair and management solutions to all airline operators of the region. A Team will utilise the existing engine overhaul facilities of Air India at Mumbai and marketing set up of Aerostar in the Middle East .The alliance will sell repair services for jet engines, including GE CF6-50 & 80 series, P&W 4000 series, GE-90 series and CFM56-7 series and will also cover CFM56-5 series engine in the near future.
Sri_Bom |
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maut3000
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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Has this thread closed down??? Or are there no more AI news now-a days?  |
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sammyk
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Posts: 2719
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| maut3000 wrote: | | Has this thread closed down??? Or are there no more AI news now-a days? |
It hasn't been closed. It seems most AI news is being posted in the AI Turnaround thread. If you have some AI news not related to the turnaround then feel free to post it here. |
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rutvij
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| Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| AI-127/126 has returned to Base. |
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justbala
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maut3000
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| Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| rutvij wrote: | | AI-127/126 has returned to Base. |
Sorry? |
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rutvij
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| maut3000 wrote: | | rutvij wrote: | | AI-127/126 has returned to Base. |
Sorry? |
BOM-FRA-ORD instead of DEL-FRA-ORD |
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iah87
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Airlines
02:05 pm - Saturday
Air India points on technology
New Delhi, India - The airline aims to join Star Alliance in 2010
(WAPA) - Air India is still completing the upgrade of its technology services, in particular of its computer systems, in sight of its upcoming entrance in Star Alliance from June 2010. The airline had already been approved as future member in 2007, but its official entrance has been delayed several times.
"The delay has been caused by IT integration issues -a spokesman for the carrier explained- We informed Star Alliance of the issues accordingly, and the new June 2010 deadline was set". Previously a May 2009 deadline for Air India to join the alliance had been set.
The main problem is compatibility with the systems of its future Star Alliance partners. "The various parameters are steadily being met -said the spokesman- and we should meet our June 2010 deadline". (Avionews)
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If they indeed become a member by June, it will be a minor miracle. |
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con spirito
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con spirito
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| Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Man hides in toilet on Haj flight to India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Man-hides-in-toilet-on-Haj-flight-to-India/articleshow/5382853.cms
This proves how easily anyone can sneak inside an aircraft without getting noticed. If it were not for his overalls he would have landed at Jaipur airport. Serious security lapse on part of AI.
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India is one of the richest countries in the world.
The only problem is........all the wealth is distributed in the wrong hands. |
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iah87
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| Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Dont the FA's check the toilets when they do the passenger count before the aircraft door is closed ?
May be AI was careless since it was a Haj flight and not a normal revenue flight. |
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con spirito
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con spirito
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AirIndia0001
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Posts: 391
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | AI to build cargo hub in Kerala |
What is the logic behind such a move... but then again this is AI we are talking about.
Btw... how is AI's Nagpur cargo hub shaping up? |
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me111993
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| AirIndia0001 wrote: |
Btw... how is AI's Nagpur cargo hub shaping up? |
AI has a cargo hub in Nagpur!!!!
I thought DN 360 is going to setup Nagpur as it's primary cargo hub..
_________________
Causal Determinism : We are hardwired to need answers. The Caveman who heard a rustle in the bushes and checked out to see what it was, lived longer than the guy, who assumed it was just a breeze.
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AirIndia0001
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