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Etihad purchases 5 x 777-200LRs from Air India
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747-237
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Etihad purchases 5 x 777-200LRs from Air India Reply with quote

http://www.traveldailymedia.com/198656/etihad-purchases-boeing-777-200lr-from-air-india/

Etihad purchases Boeing 777-200LR from Air India

Aircraft to be delivered from the beginning of 2014


09 Oct 2013

Etihad Airways has announced its intention to purchase five Boeing 777-200LRs aircraft from Air India.

The purchase of this longest range passenger aircraft in operation is expected to add fuel to the airline’s network growth plan.

Earlier this week, Etihad Airways and Air India signed a Letter of Intent (LOI) in Mumbai paving the way for the deal. The 777-200LRs will be used on the airline’s new route between Abu Dhabi and Los Angeles, starting 1 June 2014.

Subject to approvals, the aircraft will be delivered to Etihad Airways from the beginning of 2014 and each will be re-fitted in a three-class cabin configuration consistent with similar aircraft in the airline’s current fleet. The first aircraft is expected to enter service in April 2014.

“The Boeing 777-200LR is a fantastic addition, giving us extra reach immediately and complementing our long term fleet strategy. Our continued strong organic growth, boosted by the impact of our equity partners, has opened up new opportunities for additional destinations,” James Hogan, president and chief executive officer of Etihad Airways.

The five Air India 777-200LR purchased by Etihad Airways is on average six-years old, and will add to Etihad existing fleet of 17 Boeing 777-300ER.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only the LoI has been signed. Now the hundred odd committees, bureaus, ministries and associated bureaucrats of the GoI must 'approve' the deal and till everyone gets his/her cut, we can be sure that all sorts of 'objections ' will be raised. EY will finally go and buy the planes elsewhere.

in any case, the LoI is a beginning.
I think the last time AI sold such new planes to another airline was when the L-749s Mughal Princess and Rajput Princess (VT-CQR and VT-CQS), delivered in 1948 ,were sold to Qantas in 1951.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the LoI might be as good as a done deal here, as I'm assuming the LoI includes the commercial terms for the deal. If the LoI does not include the commercial terms and is not binding on both parties, then I'm with you - that this is not really progress.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, couldn't help noticing the similarity between LoI and LoL Razz
If this indeed works out, this will be very good for AI. They will have the three B77Ls they had then wanted. EY will as a first step, reconfigure the plane to suit current economics better. I wonder if this sale was linked to the formal approval for the 9W-EY deal, too. The_Goat: what you point out from history is not quite encouraging from AI: those were in the golden JRD era!
Cheers, Sumantra.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:
They will have the three B77Ls they had then wanted.

Two of which are airworthy, I believe (VT-ALF "Jharkhand" and VT-ALG "Kerala") ?
IIRC, VT-ALH "Maharashtra" hasn't flown in a while and has reportedly been cannibalized.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Etihad will use these planes to take away even more potential North American clients from AI and send them to India on 9W metal from AUH....
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

State-owned national carrier Air India is set to clock annual savings of over Rs 370 crore from sale of five Boeing 777-200 LRs to Abu Dhabi based Etihad Airways.

A senior official at Air India told Business Standard, “We were paying $5 million as loan principal and interest on these planes each month. So there will be a saving of about $60 million a year after the planes are sold.” He declined to specify the size of the deal, however, industry estimates, peg it to be around Rs 3,100 crore ($500 million). The sale proceeds will be used to clear outstanding loans against the aircraft and balance will be retained.


http://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/air-india-to-save-over-rs-370-cr-from-sale-of-aircraft-to-etihad-113100900952_1.html
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else thinks that this may have been a pre-condition as part of approval of the EY-9W deal by the Cabinet ?

The timing looks too good to be true.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryder1650 wrote:
So Etihad will use these planes to take away even more potential North American clients from AI and send them to India on 9W metal from AUH....


They were never potential AI clients to start with, else AI would have flown them using these same a/c. But AI did not see the value of that, hence they're now free to fly any other airline.

The first destination announced by EY is LAX - again a point that AI should ideally fly to (besides SFO), but does not.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
Anyone else thinks that this may have been a pre-condition as part of approval of the EY-9W deal by the Cabinet ?

The timing looks too good to be true.



Of course it was a pre condition.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryder1650 wrote:
So Etihad will use these planes to take away even more potential North American clients from AI and send them to India on 9W metal from AUH....


There is nothing EY is going to take from AI at LAX, absolutely nothing.

At best EY will give a tough time to it's one stop competitors. AI is best left at ORD, NYC and I would add SFO to the list only if the distance was lesser.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sale Price seems VERY HIGH at 100 Million USD a piece, especially given the valuation of 2007/08 77L aircrafts is around 75-85 Million $

And Given the condition of AI aircraft should be 65 million $

Anyways if true AI seems to have finally made a profit on these aircrafts as they bought them when the USD was at 40 to the INR and is now 60 odd

Also EYs proposed config is 8F 40 J 189 Y...237 with 10 abreast Y

So for AI we now have 5 less aircrafts faffing around

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
The first destination announced by EY is LAX - again a point that AI should ideally fly to (besides SFO), but does not.
Nimish, LAX did not work out for AI, when it had 4 US points which it served one-stop with its B744s in the 2000s. The US market is tough, and not being part of any alliance hurts badly, unless one has good O&D, as the EWR and ORD flights do not seem to do too badly, the former currently on a B77L. LAX bled AI very badly in the 2000s, when it was on their schedules for a short time, via FRA. The `Sundarbans' B744D (Combi) have AI lots of trouble on this route, before it was returned to AC.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

747-237 wrote:
sumantra wrote:
They will have the three B77Ls they had then wanted.

Two of which are airworthy, I believe (VT-ALF "Jharkhand" and VT-ALG "Kerala") ?
IIRC, VT-ALH "Maharashtra" hasn't flown in a while and has reportedly been cannibalized.


Cannibalized??? Goodness me!

I thought only cash strapped operators who couldn't afford spare parts like Kingfisher resorted to that to keep planes flying. Why has AI done this?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
747-237 wrote:
sumantra wrote:
They will have the three B77Ls they had then wanted.

Two of which are airworthy, I believe (VT-ALF "Jharkhand" and VT-ALG "Kerala") ?
IIRC, VT-ALH "Maharashtra" hasn't flown in a while and has reportedly been cannibalized.


Cannibalized??? Goodness me!

I thought only cash strapped operators who couldn't afford spare parts like Kingfisher resorted to that to keep planes flying. Why has AI done this?


She hasn't flown since May of 2012, and has been stored at BOM with a cracked undercarriage spar. Air India engineering has been using her as a "parts source".
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

747-237 wrote:
She hasn't flown since May of 2012, and has been stored at BOM with a cracked undercarriage spar. Air India engineering has been using her as a "parts source".


And can those who go gaga over AI's maintenance come forward please!

B77L being cannibalized even when they are to be sold off! short of words.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:
The `Sundarbans' B744D (Combi) have AI lots of trouble on this route, before it was returned to AC.
Cheers, Sumantra.


It didn't go back to AC, but went to Dubai Air Wing as A6-COM

http://www.airframes.org/reg/a6com

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aseem wrote:
B77L being cannibalized even when they are to be sold off! short of words.
Aseem, `Maharashtra' will not be sold off, only `Andhra Pradesh' to `Haryana' (ALA-ALE). I guess with the first five to leave soon, they will repair `Maharashtra' to get her flying again. Before this, I guess it bled the taxpayer less to have the B77Ls sun themselves on the tarmac, rather than bleed all more, by having them in the air.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aseem wrote:
It didn't go back to AC, but went to Dubai Air Wing as A6-COM
Thanks Aseem, for the correction!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:
`Maharashtra' will not be sold off, only `Andhra Pradesh' to `Haryana' (ALA-ALE).


Time to find a new handle for myself Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aseem wrote:
sumantra wrote:
The `Sundarbans' B744D (Combi) have AI lots of trouble on this route, before it was returned to AC.
Cheers, Sumantra.


It didn't go back to AC, but went to Dubai Air Wing as A6-COM

http://www.airframes.org/reg/a6com

rgds
VT-ASJ


It was given the nickname VT-AOG Very Happy Very Happy

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karan69 wrote:
It was given the nickname VT-AOG Very Happy Very Happy

Karan


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vt-ala wrote:
Time to find a new handle for myself
Nice to see you on the forum Sir, after a very long time!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karan69 wrote:
It was given the nickname VT-AOG
Nice one, Sir!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:
Karan69 wrote:
It was given the nickname VT-AOG
Nice one, Sir!


Sir that was the actual nickname given by AI ppl for the same

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it possible that EY hands these over to 9W to compete with AI on the US nonstops?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryder1650 wrote:
Is it possible that EY hands these over to 9W to compete with AI on the US nonstops?


No way, Etti is already going to use these. Already being prepped for Etti's new AUH-LAX!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abhijith16 wrote:
No way, Etti is already going to use these. Already being prepped for Etti's new AUH-LAX!


Well - that might be 2 frames, there's still 3 more to be used. I'm guessing EY will announce another 1-2 North American destinations by April next year - they currently service ORD, JFK, IAD, have announced LAX, so might spring up DFW/ IAH/ MIA next - all similar distances and perfect for their 77Ls.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryder1650 wrote:
Is it possible that EY hands these over to 9W to compete with AI on the US nonstops?


I doubt that. AI's nonstops aren't much of a threat to EY - there are so few of them, and I don't think there's much overlap in traffic.

On the other hand, why would they want Jet poaching India-North America traffic from them? They've already taken away some of Jet's LHR slots - why would they give them a chance to overfly Abu Dhabi and take pax directly to North America? I think Etihad will keep the 77Ls to launch its own flights to the Americas.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryder1650 wrote:
Is it possible that EY hands these over to 9W to compete with AI on the US nonstops?

Not a chance. Everything's got to go through Dhabi, for Etti to get maximum returns.

Only 24% of the earnings from a BOM-EWR will go to Etihad. Whereas BOM-AUH-EWR means 20% (or 100%, depending on operator) of BOM-AUH and 100% of AUH-EWR will be Etihad's share.

That's a simplistic calculation, but not too off the mark after accounting for other factors.

In short, to no one's surprise, with few exceptions, Jet will provide grist for the AUH mill. It's why Etihad bought in anyway. Not because of quality, health, network, reputation, profits etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeh wrote:
ryder1650 wrote:
Is it possible that EY hands these over to 9W to compete with AI on the US nonstops?


I doubt that. AI's nonstops aren't much of a threat to EY - there are so few of them, and I don't think there's much overlap in traffic.

On the other hand, why would they want Jet poaching India-North America traffic from them? They've already taken away some of Jet's LHR slots - why would they give them a chance to overfly Abu Dhabi and take pax directly to North America? I think Etihad will keep the 77Ls to launch its own flights to the Americas.


You maybe incorrect there.

Not a threat per se, but yes out of AUH the general pattern is desis prefer AI over EY. ORD is heading the BOM - EWR way, so yes before launching ORD; 9W (EY) has to do a lot of number crunching to justify the service.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
ORD is heading the BOM - EWR way

What do you mean by that? ORD becoming successful for AI?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
ORD is heading the BOM - EWR way

What do you mean by that? ORD becoming successful for AI?


Yes, I know you may not believe it. But it is.

ORD is doing very well for AI, given it is a long haul route. The revenue cargo carried is minting money for AI. and from the passengers point of view, the following things are working:

1) For DEL O-D traffic which is large; it is a non stop flight.

2) connections via DEL are good. The psyche working for desis that in case they get stranded; it is in DEL i.e in India.

3) The volume of VFR travel is huge enough for AI to fill the back of the plane .. and handful of corporate contracts ensure some significant J class occupancy is there.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
ORD is heading the BOM - EWR way

What do you mean by that? ORD becoming successful for AI?


Yes, I know you may not believe it. But it is.

ORD is doing very well for AI, given it is a long haul route. The revenue cargo carried is minting money for AI. and from the passengers point of view, the following things are working:

1) For DEL O-D traffic which is large; it is a non stop flight.

2) connections via DEL are good. The psyche working for desis that in case they get stranded; it is in DEL i.e in India.

3) The volume of VFR travel is huge enough for AI to fill the back of the plane .. and handful of corporate contracts ensure some significant J class occupancy is there.


Oh it wasn't a question of belief... I just wasn't sure what you meant.

I can believe it - because the flight timings at DEL means AI"s entire domestic network is a reasonable one-stop connection to their long-haul network. That's half the battle.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
ORD is heading the BOM - EWR way

What do you mean by that? ORD becoming successful for AI?


Yes, I know you may not believe it. But it is.

ORD is doing very well for AI, given it is a long haul route. The revenue cargo carried is minting money for AI. and from the passengers point of view, the following things are working:



Have heard that one big reason why that flight is successful is because it extends to HYD, which accounts for about 1/2 the load?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Have heard that the main reason for that flight's success is the fact that it extends to HYD, which accounts for about 1/2 the load?

There's that strategy that certainly contributes in a big way (similar to EWR-AMD and BHX-ATQ etc).

Also, the flight arrives in DEL at 3 in the afternoon. Which means people can be wherever in India they need to be with a shortish layover during daytime.

On the way out of India, some layovers are longer, but they're late evening so manageable.

That has got to help with both feed and the local flight.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
avbuff wrote:
jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
ORD is heading the BOM - EWR way

What do you mean by that? ORD becoming successful for AI?


Yes, I know you may not believe it. But it is.

ORD is doing very well for AI, given it is a long haul route. The revenue cargo carried is minting money for AI. and from the passengers point of view, the following things are working:



Have heard that one big reason why that flight is successful is because it extends to HYD, which accounts for about 1/2 the load?


Yes, not 50% of the load but yes a good amount of it comes from HYD. For ORD, IIRC BOM, DEL and then HYD are the top 3 Indian cities. So it makes perfect sense to market these flights out of HYD as a single flight number. On a 6 month data it has been found a significant number of people doing PAT/BBI - ORD. The people from these cities while not that significant, do add up in the larger picture.

Same goes for AMD-BOM-EWR.

P.S: Also AI dies good business for traffic between VTZ and Europe via DEL
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected, avbuff (always fascinating and informative, your posts!). We all know EWR is quite popular, but I didn't know AI do well enough on ORD to cause Etihad at least a little concern.

I understand DEL-ORD can be done on a 77W (as AI do), but Jet have given almost all of theirs away, and it would be overkill to have two 77Ws on this route. So does this mean that there is a possibility, however, remote, that Jet might receive any of the LRs in a bid to weaken AI on these routes?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading all the posts here, AI operates to ORD (Central US) and EWR (East Coast) but does not operate to West coast (LAX/SFO). Can east coast still be explored via LHR as it used to be done by 744 previously?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeh wrote:
I stand corrected, avbuff (always fascinating and informative, your posts!). We all know EWR is quite popular, but I didn't know AI do well enough on ORD to cause Etihad at least a little concern.

I understand DEL-ORD can be done on a 77W (as AI do), but Jet have given almost all of theirs away, and it would be overkill to have two 77Ws on this route. So does this mean that there is a possibility, however, remote, that Jet might receive any of the LRs in a bid to weaken AI on these routes?


Thanks.

While I may not rule out the possibility of 9W operating those B77Ls; however the chances of that happening is almost zero :

1) Of the 5 LRs 2 have already been assigned to do AUH - LAX by EY.

2) Another destination in the Americas would announced soon, hence we have another 2 being used.

3) One remaining LR could be put as an operational spare

4) Etihad will be re configuring them completely as per their requirements.


@shivendrashukla

Doing a one stop to east coast will kill whatever competitive edge AI would have due to the non stops. It can work today only if you are in an alliance and have multiple flights through that European city.
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