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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Very puzzling! 8 minute descent straight into terrain, no heading change, more or less constant airspeed.
There is a theory about frozen AOA sensors causing the flight computer to maintain pitch, regardless of pilot inputs. Not confirmed if the particular plane was serviced to fix this issue. |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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ssbmat wrote: | Very puzzling! 8 minute descent straight into terrain, no heading change, more or less constant airspeed.
There is a theory about frozen AOA sensors causing the flight computer to maintain pitch, regardless of pilot inputs. Not confirmed if the particular plane was serviced to fix this issue. |
There is a operational procedure to deal with frozen probes apparently, and Airbus is working on a fix.
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558483-iced-aoa-sensors-send-a321-into-deep-dive.html
But the problem seems to have caused two crashes already. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I know aviation professionals will challenge me on this, but I think the maxim of Aviate, Navigate, Communicate needs to be changed atleast to Aviate, Communicate and Navigate.
AF 447, MH370, Air Asia and now GermanWings, the radio silence is proving to be very costly indeed. (Assuming MH370 crew was not deliberately or otherwise compromised).
Atleast you can communicate a basic mayday , diving/descending, loss of control/AP issue..something. You may not have the time to send out coordinates, but something is better than deafening silence. |
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saurabhm_101 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 529 Location: Mumbai
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Posted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Aviate, Navigate & Communicate is exactly how it should be.
Communicating is honestly the least important task when trying to troubleshoot non normal situations.
Get the airplane under control, in a flyable manner, get an idea of where you are after the airplane is stable and then speak to the world.
Communicating to ATC about what's going/gone wrong is the worst thing to do because, at least in India, controllers have ZERO knowledge of the basics of flying unlike controllers in Europe, the States and a few more countries. Constant questions including "Say Again?" can get distracting.
If I go "MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY" in India, expect hell to break loose because they care more about knowing what my aircraft registration is than actually helping me get down safe. Hence we've been trained to always add the term "STANDBY" after every distress call, keeps them waiting for more information than pestering us with non essential questions which distracts us rather then helping us. _________________ Flying High.... You and Me...! |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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So it is emerging now that the co-pilot was alone in the cockpit, and the captain was locked out. And also that the co-pilot deliberately crashed the aircraft.
WTF? _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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The deliberate motive has now been officially declared. Apparently France is asking for FBI assistance on this.
Here is a thought. Either there is a case of mental issues, OR, more sinister, there was an attempt to evade radar, fly low and then crash the plane on a more populated area or something like that.
The French got the wind of it, blew it up.
And then this whole political grandstanding by the presidents of all three countries by visiting the site. Ever heard that before ?
The only hitch is that 8 minutes seems too short a time for the reaction at the highest level. Was the plane headed towards an area near any N-plant , for instance ? That may have precipitated the decision. |
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saurabhm_101 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 529 Location: Mumbai
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Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Erm I think you're thinking way too far. Simple 8 minute constant descent. If they actually was 'shot down', the area of debris would much, much bigger and the locals would've probably heard engine noises from the fighters.
There was no attempt to change heading, it was on track to DUS and he began a constant speed descent probably at the maximum permitted speed, 335 knots for the A320 if I'm not mistaken. _________________ Flying High.... You and Me...! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Any further updates on this? Has the FDR been recovered/ decoded? Everything I read online makes it seem like this was a deliberate act of mass murder. _________________ We miss you Nalini! |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | Any further updates on this? Has the FDR been recovered/ decoded? Everything I read online makes it seem like this was a deliberate act of mass murder. |
The FDR has been recovered.
No further updates, other than the reports that the FO had medical issues. He was apparently suspended from flying for a few months due to clinical depression, and was on heavy medication. The doctors had re-instated him when they were convinced that the treatment had worked.
In any case, most EU airlines have introduced a "minimum-two-persons -in-the-cockpit-at-all-times" rule, something even Indian carriers have had for years. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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PAL@YWG Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 438 Location: YWG, Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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For every Andreas Lubitz, we have heroes like Chesley "Sully"Sullenberger. That's reassuring. _________________ Tally Sheet:
41 Countries ||55 Aircraft types ||60 Airlines ||75 Airports |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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sri_bom Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 2365 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
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A bizarre suggestion from the Turkish Airline boss. What he fails to understand is that even married men get divorced.
Sri_Bom
AviationLifestyles are important for pilots, says Turkish Airlines
Airline boss tells pilots: Get married
http://www.travelweekly-asia.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airline-boss-tells-pilots-Get-married/?cid=eltrTWADaily
By Travel Weekly Asia / April 21, 2015
The CEO of Turkish Airlines has urged single pilots to marry, after the Germanwings tragedy was blamed on a pilot with psychological problems.
The CEO of Turkish Airlines has urged single pilots to marry, after the Germanwings tragedy was blamed on a pilot with psychological problems.
The tragedy last month "taught us new things and piloting is a very critical task. The lifestyle of pilots - be they men or women - is very important," Temel Kotil was quoted as saying by the Hurriyet daily.
Kotil told new pilots of Turkey’s flag carrier that the Germanwings crash showed the importance of pilots’ “lifestyles".
"The accident happened after the pilot's girlfriend left him. So my dear friends, take into account that we advise our single pilots to get married," he added.
Initial reports suggested the Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had broken up with his girlfriend, but this was later called into question.
Lubitz, who had been diagnosed as suicidal in the past, is believed to have intentionally flown the plane into the mountainside after locking the pilot out of the cockpit.
All 150 people on board were killed when the plane smashed into the French Alps.
Kotil, whose airline is one the fastest growing carriers in the world, said there should be more female pilots at Turkish Airlines.
He said out of 86 new pilot graduates, only three are women and there were only 40 women pilots in the entire company out of 4000 pilots |
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sri_bom Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 2365 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Goat - Seems like one can hack onto the airplane remotely or as a passenger.
United Airlines has barred this passenger from flying.
http://www.travelweekly-asia.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airline-takes-no-chances-with-security-risk-finder/?cid=eltrTWADaily
United Airlines has banned a security researcher from a flight after he tweeted that he might be able to hack the aircraft's systems.
The BBC reported that Chris Roberts was due to fly from Colorado to San Francisco to talk at a major security conference last Saturday.
Earlier, he tweeted he thought he could deploy the oxygen masks on board. Despite the ban, United said, "We are confident our flight control systems could not be accessed through techniques [Mr Roberts] described."
Roberts is the founder of cybersecurity firm, One World Labs that tries to find vulnerabilities in IT systems and alert companies to them before they are exploited by criminals.
As part of his job Roberts had given interviews to the media in recent weeks in which he commented on the possible weak points of airline systems. He told Fox News, "Quite simply put, we can theorise on how to turn the engines off at 35,000ft (10,668m) and not have any of those damn flashing lights go off in the cockpit."
He also told CNN that he could connect to a computer under his seat to view data from the aircraft's engines, fuel and flight management systems. |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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sri_bom wrote: |
Goat - Seems like one can hack onto the airplane remotely or as a passenger.
United Airlines has barred this passenger from flying.
http://www.travelweekly-asia.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airline-takes-no-chances-with-security-risk-finder/?cid=eltrTWADaily
United Airlines has banned a security researcher from a flight after he tweeted that he might be able to hack the aircraft's systems.
The BBC reported that Chris Roberts was due to fly from Colorado to San Francisco to talk at a major security conference last Saturday.
Earlier, he tweeted he thought he could deploy the oxygen masks on board. Despite the ban, United said, "We are confident our flight control systems could not be accessed through techniques [Mr Roberts] described."
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I don't know really. Shouldn't the system be connected to a network to enable remote hacking? Are all the FBW aircraft networked?
It looks to me that this Chris Roberts chap is spinning yarn. I don't think there is any way he can connect the computer under his seat and check out the airplane' engines. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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