Airliners-India.com Forum Index Airliners-India.com
Flickr Group & Facebook
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Germanwings A320 crash in Southern France. All feared dead!

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> International
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Germanwings A320 crash in Southern France. All feared dead! Reply with quote

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/airbus-a320-crash-german-wings-flight-down-in-southern-france-10129817.html

RIP!

It was on a BCN-DUS flight. There can be no hope if it has gone down in the mountains at this time of the year.
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ssbmat
Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 1710

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very puzzling! 8 minute descent straight into terrain, no heading change, more or less constant airspeed.
There is a theory about frozen AOA sensors causing the flight computer to maintain pitch, regardless of pilot inputs. Not confirmed if the particular plane was serviced to fix this issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
Very puzzling! 8 minute descent straight into terrain, no heading change, more or less constant airspeed.
There is a theory about frozen AOA sensors causing the flight computer to maintain pitch, regardless of pilot inputs. Not confirmed if the particular plane was serviced to fix this issue.


There is a operational procedure to deal with frozen probes apparently, and Airbus is working on a fix.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558483-iced-aoa-sensors-send-a321-into-deep-dive.html

But the problem seems to have caused two crashes already.
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ssbmat
Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 1710

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know aviation professionals will challenge me on this, but I think the maxim of Aviate, Navigate, Communicate needs to be changed atleast to Aviate, Communicate and Navigate.

AF 447, MH370, Air Asia and now GermanWings, the radio silence is proving to be very costly indeed. (Assuming MH370 crew was not deliberately or otherwise compromised).

Atleast you can communicate a basic mayday , diving/descending, loss of control/AP issue..something. You may not have the time to send out coordinates, but something is better than deafening silence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saurabhm_101
Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Mumbai

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aviate, Navigate & Communicate is exactly how it should be.

Communicating is honestly the least important task when trying to troubleshoot non normal situations.

Get the airplane under control, in a flyable manner, get an idea of where you are after the airplane is stable and then speak to the world.

Communicating to ATC about what's going/gone wrong is the worst thing to do because, at least in India, controllers have ZERO knowledge of the basics of flying unlike controllers in Europe, the States and a few more countries. Constant questions including "Say Again?" can get distracting.

If I go "MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY" in India, expect hell to break loose because they care more about knowing what my aircraft registration is than actually helping me get down safe. Hence we've been trained to always add the term "STANDBY" after every distress call, keeps them waiting for more information than pestering us with non essential questions which distracts us rather then helping us.
_________________
Flying High.... You and Me...!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it is emerging now that the co-pilot was alone in the cockpit, and the captain was locked out. And also that the co-pilot deliberately crashed the aircraft. Shocked

WTF?
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ssbmat
Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 1710

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The deliberate motive has now been officially declared. Apparently France is asking for FBI assistance on this.
Here is a thought. Either there is a case of mental issues, OR, more sinister, there was an attempt to evade radar, fly low and then crash the plane on a more populated area or something like that.

The French got the wind of it, blew it up.

And then this whole political grandstanding by the presidents of all three countries by visiting the site. Ever heard that before ?

The only hitch is that 8 minutes seems too short a time for the reaction at the highest level. Was the plane headed towards an area near any N-plant , for instance ? That may have precipitated the decision.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
saurabhm_101
Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 529
Location: Mumbai

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm I think you're thinking way too far. Simple 8 minute constant descent. If they actually was 'shot down', the area of debris would much, much bigger and the locals would've probably heard engine noises from the fighters.

There was no attempt to change heading, it was on track to DUS and he began a constant speed descent probably at the maximum permitted speed, 335 knots for the A320 if I'm not mistaken.
_________________
Flying High.... You and Me...!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Nimish
Member


Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any further updates on this? Has the FDR been recovered/ decoded? Everything I read online makes it seem like this was a deliberate act of mass murder.
_________________
We miss you Nalini!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
Any further updates on this? Has the FDR been recovered/ decoded? Everything I read online makes it seem like this was a deliberate act of mass murder.


The FDR has been recovered.

No further updates, other than the reports that the FO had medical issues. He was apparently suspended from flying for a few months due to clinical depression, and was on heavy medication. The doctors had re-instated him when they were convinced that the treatment had worked.

In any case, most EU airlines have introduced a "minimum-two-persons -in-the-cockpit-at-all-times" rule, something even Indian carriers have had for years.
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PAL@YWG
Member


Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 438
Location: YWG, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For every Andreas Lubitz, we have heroes like Chesley "Sully"Sullenberger. That's reassuring.
_________________
Tally Sheet:
41 Countries ||55 Aircraft types ||60 Airlines ||75 Airports
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a crazy new theory emerging. The plane could have been 'hacked'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3030873/Was-Germanwings-plane-crashed-HACKER-instead-pilot-Aviation-expert-says-jet-easily-accessed-remotely.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

A question to the experts - Is this really possible?
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sri_bom
Member


Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2365
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bizarre suggestion from the Turkish Airline boss. What he fails to understand is that even married men get divorced.

Sri_Bom


AviationLifestyles are important for pilots, says Turkish Airlines
Airline boss tells pilots: Get married

http://www.travelweekly-asia.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airline-boss-tells-pilots-Get-married/?cid=eltrTWADaily

By Travel Weekly Asia / April 21, 2015



The CEO of Turkish Airlines has urged single pilots to marry, after the Germanwings tragedy was blamed on a pilot with psychological problems.

The CEO of Turkish Airlines has urged single pilots to marry, after the Germanwings tragedy was blamed on a pilot with psychological problems.

The tragedy last month "taught us new things and piloting is a very critical task. The lifestyle of pilots - be they men or women - is very important," Temel Kotil was quoted as saying by the Hurriyet daily.

Kotil told new pilots of Turkey’s flag carrier that the Germanwings crash showed the importance of pilots’ “lifestyles".

"The accident happened after the pilot's girlfriend left him. So my dear friends, take into account that we advise our single pilots to get married," he added.

Initial reports suggested the Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz had broken up with his girlfriend, but this was later called into question.

Lubitz, who had been diagnosed as suicidal in the past, is believed to have intentionally flown the plane into the mountainside after locking the pilot out of the cockpit.

All 150 people on board were killed when the plane smashed into the French Alps.

Kotil, whose airline is one the fastest growing carriers in the world, said there should be more female pilots at Turkish Airlines.

He said out of 86 new pilot graduates, only three are women and there were only 40 women pilots in the entire company out of 4000 pilots
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
sri_bom
Member


Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2365
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
There is a crazy new theory emerging. The plane could have been 'hacked'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3030873/Was-Germanwings-plane-crashed-HACKER-instead-pilot-Aviation-expert-says-jet-easily-accessed-remotely.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

A question to the experts - Is this really possible?


Goat - Seems like one can hack onto the airplane remotely or as a passenger.

United Airlines has barred this passenger from flying.

http://www.travelweekly-asia.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airline-takes-no-chances-with-security-risk-finder/?cid=eltrTWADaily

United Airlines has banned a security researcher from a flight after he tweeted that he might be able to hack the aircraft's systems.

The BBC reported that Chris Roberts was due to fly from Colorado to San Francisco to talk at a major security conference last Saturday.

Earlier, he tweeted he thought he could deploy the oxygen masks on board. Despite the ban, United said, "We are confident our flight control systems could not be accessed through techniques [Mr Roberts] described."

Roberts is the founder of cybersecurity firm, One World Labs that tries to find vulnerabilities in IT systems and alert companies to them before they are exploited by criminals.

As part of his job Roberts had given interviews to the media in recent weeks in which he commented on the possible weak points of airline systems. He told Fox News, "Quite simply put, we can theorise on how to turn the engines off at 35,000ft (10,668m) and not have any of those damn flashing lights go off in the cockpit."

He also told CNN that he could connect to a computer under his seat to view data from the aircraft's engines, fuel and flight management systems.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sri_bom wrote:

Goat - Seems like one can hack onto the airplane remotely or as a passenger.

United Airlines has barred this passenger from flying.

http://www.travelweekly-asia.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airline-takes-no-chances-with-security-risk-finder/?cid=eltrTWADaily

United Airlines has banned a security researcher from a flight after he tweeted that he might be able to hack the aircraft's systems.

The BBC reported that Chris Roberts was due to fly from Colorado to San Francisco to talk at a major security conference last Saturday.

Earlier, he tweeted he thought he could deploy the oxygen masks on board. Despite the ban, United said, "We are confident our flight control systems could not be accessed through techniques [Mr Roberts] described."



I don't know really. Shouldn't the system be connected to a network to enable remote hacking? Are all the FBW aircraft networked?

It looks to me that this Chris Roberts chap is spinning yarn. I don't think there is any way he can connect the computer under his seat and check out the airplane' engines.
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> International All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com