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Jeh
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Location: Delhi, India
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 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| abhijith16 wrote: | | 747-237 wrote: | http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Non-stop-AI-flight-from-Ahmedabad-to-London-from-August-15/articleshow/52264280.cms
Non-stop AI flight from Ahmedabad to London from August 15
May 14, 2016
Air India is going to fly direct from Ahmedabad to London Heathrow and the same aircraft will fly on to Newark from August 15, said a senior official.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi had during his London visit last November announced that AI will fly from Ahmedabad to London from December 15, 2015. AI did start that flight but it was not a direct one. Currently, we have an Ahmedabad-Mumbai London flight which very often involves a change of aircraft in Mumbai. This means flyers have to often get off the aircraft and then board another plane. From August 15, a Dreamliner will fly direct from Ahmedabad to London, onward to Newark and take the same route on return," said the official.
AI has fifth freedom rights in UK, which means its Ahmedabad-UK-US flight can take passengers between London and Newark. "At present, we operate from Heathrow's terminal 3.But by September AI will operate out of the Heathrow's Star Alliance terminal, T2," said the official.
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And sure enough,
AI will commence Ahmedabad-London-Newark effective 15 August.
AI171 AMD0500 - 1015LHR1230 - 1500EWR 788 135
AI172 EWR0020 - 1205LHR1430 - 0330+1AMD 788 246
Bookings open. |
Where did they get the LHR slot? And how does this affect the AMD-BOM-EWR-BOM-AMD 191/144 rotation? |
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abhijith16
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 1575
Location: DOH/IXE/MEL
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeh wrote: | | abhijith16 wrote: | | 747-237 wrote: | http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Non-stop-AI-flight-from-Ahmedabad-to-London-from-August-15/articleshow/52264280.cms
Non-stop AI flight from Ahmedabad to London from August 15
May 14, 2016
Air India is going to fly direct from Ahmedabad to London Heathrow and the same aircraft will fly on to Newark from August 15, said a senior official.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi had during his London visit last November announced that AI will fly from Ahmedabad to London from December 15, 2015. AI did start that flight but it was not a direct one. Currently, we have an Ahmedabad-Mumbai London flight which very often involves a change of aircraft in Mumbai. This means flyers have to often get off the aircraft and then board another plane. From August 15, a Dreamliner will fly direct from Ahmedabad to London, onward to Newark and take the same route on return," said the official.
AI has fifth freedom rights in UK, which means its Ahmedabad-UK-US flight can take passengers between London and Newark. "At present, we operate from Heathrow's terminal 3.But by September AI will operate out of the Heathrow's Star Alliance terminal, T2," said the official.
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And sure enough,
AI will commence Ahmedabad-London-Newark effective 15 August.
AI171 AMD0500 - 1015LHR1230 - 1500EWR 788 135
AI172 EWR0020 - 1205LHR1430 - 0330+1AMD 788 246
Bookings open. |
Where did they get the LHR slot? And how does this affect the AMD-BOM-EWR-BOM-AMD 191/144 rotation? |
They've cancelled AI111/112 DEL-LHR-DEL, and have shuffled around some of the timings to make this happen.
They've also added a standalone AMD-LHR from 21AUG
AI171 AMD0440 - 0955LHR 788 7
AI172 LHR1235 - 0205+1AMD 788 7
AI191/144 remains as is, atleast for now, should change soon.
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yashkhullar
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Is there any commercial basis to the decision or is it a completely political call? What about the 2 daily 787s to AMD from BOM? Why are they flying LHR-EWR when they can iterline/codeshare with UA? Why are they not routing EWR bound passengers through BOM?
This seems like a total mess. And here I thought that AI was improving. Rather than building their DEL hub by adding new destinations in Europe and N.America they are wasting an aircraft here. |
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yashkhullar
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They've cancelled AI111/112 DEL-LHR-DEL, and have shuffled around some of the timings to make this happen. |
I think they have cancelled AI115/116. The AI111/112 is part of their European bank of departures. |
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abhijith16
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| yashkhullar wrote: | Is there any commercial basis to the decision or is it a completely political call? What about the 2 daily 787s to AMD from BOM? Why are they flying LHR-EWR when they can iterline/codeshare with UA? Why are they not routing EWR bound passengers through BOM?
This seems like a total mess. And here I thought that AI was improving. Rather than building their DEL hub by adding new destinations in Europe and N.America they are wasting an aircraft here. |
Yes its a political call for sure, but its way too early to judge.
As for the rest - read our resident av-expert Ameya's excellent blogpost on the new flights
http://networkthoughts.in/air-india-re-jigs-london-ops-launches-ahmedabad-london-newark-flights/
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arpitgupta
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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AI route planning is a bit messy and is evident in the case of high load ATQ-DEL-LHR route, where instead of direct ATQ-LHR direct flight, passengers are forced to disembark and connect via DEL making the journey long and tedious. AI115 in fact starts from Amritsar (ATQ) and reaches DEL at around 2010 hours. The next leg to LHR starts at 0505/0705 hours . This long stop of 9 hours of a same numbered flight is perhaps a world record in itself.
And, this is the reason why passengers from ATQ in fact surprisingly choose Turkmenistan Airlines (T5) to reach LHR by this fastest connection as compared to its peers.
It's due to these transit passengers that T5 is operating a 5 weekly flight to ATQ.
So much so that out of the top 12 transit routes of T5 LHR-ASB-ATQ features at third place and out of the total 12, ATQ features in 5 of them.
http://www.anna.aero/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Top-12-Turkmenistan-connection-via-Ashgabat.png |
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yashkhullar
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 7:38 pm Post subject:
AI route planning is a bit messy and is evident in the case of high load ATQ-DEL-LHR route, where instead of direct ATQ-LHR direct flight, passengers are forced to disembark and connect via DEL |
Even though AI 115/161 and AI 113/111 connect well to London, I agree that theoretically ATQ-LHR would have worked well due to good O&D at both ends and also good connections to Canada through AC but its ATQ's bad luck that its not in Namo's home state. |
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sumantra
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:14 am Post subject: |
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Arpit and Yash: ATQ-LHR is indeed high volume but not a high-yield route, and competing with T5's economics will not work out. The ATQ-DEL route, has seen a lot of pressure with respect to using the Dream)liner, for instance (remember the BHX ops start?). Routing the flights via the DEL hub makes some sense (direct connection from a hub, unless the numbers+yields dictate a direct connection from a non-hub city). The AI 115 layover indeed is too large (and the other flight connects better on the days it operates): I think there is some flux here, which will stabilise in the next few months. There are quite a few tweaks in the AI schedule which look strange at the moment.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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arpitgupta
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Arpit and Yash: ATQ-LHR is indeed high volume but not a high-yield route, and competing with T5's economics will not work out. The ATQ-DEL route, has seen a lot of pressure with respect to using the Dream)liner, for instance (remember the BHX ops start?). Routing the flights via the DEL hub makes some sense (direct connection from a hub, unless the numbers+yields dictate a direct connection from a non-hub city). The AI 115 layover indeed is too large (and the other flight connects better on the days it operates): I think there is some flux here, which will stabilise in the next few months. There are quite a few tweaks in the AI schedule which look strange at the moment |
Sumantra, I don't know what are the operational constraints of operating a direct ATQ-LHR flight, but I think that just like AMD if Amritsar gets a direct connectivity to LHR using B777 or B787 variants it will rain money for AI. Another shot in the eye option is operating a ATQ-LHR-YYZ flight, considering the huge Punjabi diaspora in Canada especially in and aound Toronto . This can be operated using one of the upcoming 787s which are due to be delivered to AI.
This is evident from the fact that Amritsar (ATQ) is the numero uno transit destination from DEL.
http://www.anna.aero/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Air-Indias-top-12-connections-via-Delhi.png
AI used to operate a highly popular AI 187 ATQ-BHX-YYZ flight which was withdrawn few years ago when the airline was reeling in crisis. But, given the present boom in both pax and airline health, this route can surely be considered for operations and it may prove to be a cash cow for AI or even Jet Airways (9W) for that matter
Another option can be to re-route ATQ-DEL-BHX/LHR flights as DEL-ATQ-BHX/LHR flight. This will make more economic and logical sense.
Thanks and regards,
Arpit Gupta |
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747-237
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Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:27 am Post subject: |
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Air India starting 15AUG16 is resuming service on Ahmedabad – London Heathrow – Newark route, for the first time since 2008/09. With Boeing 787-8 aircraft, AI will operate this route 3 times a week, which also marks the airline’s return on London – New York market.
AI171 AMD0500 – 1015LHR1230 – 1500EWR 788 135
AI172 EWR0020 – 1205LHR1400 – 0330+1AMD 788 4
AI172 EWR2230 – 1015+1LHR1230+1 – 0200+2AMD 788 15
Additionally, a once weekly Ahmedabad – London Heathrow terminator flight will also be served starting on 21AUG16.
AI171 AMD0440 – 0955LHR 788 7
AI172 LHR1235 – 0205+1AMD 788 7
Air India’s existing 3 daily Delhi – London Heathrow service will be reduced to 2 daily from the same date, as the airline closed reservation for flight AI115/116, currently operated by Boeing 787-8.
Air India last served Ahmedabad – London Heathrow sector until October 2008; London Heathrow – New York JFK until September 2008; London Heathrow – Newark between October 2008 and March 2009.
Source: Airlineroute.net
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yashkhullar
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Another option can be to re-route ATQ-DEL-BHX/LHR flights as DEL-ATQ-BHX/LHR flight. This will make more economic and logical sense. |
While an additional flight from ATQ to LHR might make sense, dismantling a hub created at T3 totally does not. Flights from all over India and even BKK, SYD, MEL provide feed to it. From what I know, ATQ-LHR-YYZ too would be pretty low yielding but theoretically seems a much better option as AI enters a new market and flights from DEL/BOM too could connect. I feel AI should just stick to long haul flights from DEL/BOM at this stage of their development.
On another note, I am surprised there were no prior news reports suggesting the start of this route. Like we have been hearing about Barcelona, Madrid, Washington etc since so long, the EWR tag on came as a total surprise. |
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sumantra
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Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| arpitgupta wrote: | | Sumantra, I don't know what are the operational constraints of operating a direct ATQ-LHR flight, but I think that just like AMD if Amritsar gets a direct connectivity to LHR using B777 or B787 variants it will rain money for AI. |
Arpit, it is always a game between the numbers and the yields. The numbers aren't there, and as Yash rightly points out, the benefits of having a hub at DEL simply increases the feed from other places. The basic purpose of a hub is to give a non-stop connection to a destination, unless a particular route works out for a O&D pair better. Please check some earlier posts on this forum: there are quite a few airline insiders and route planners on this forum.
| arpitgupta wrote: | | Another shot in the eye option is operating a ATQ-LHR-YYZ flight, considering the huge Punjabi diaspora in Canada especially in and around Toronto . This can be operated using one of the upcoming 787s which are due to be delivered to AI. This is evident from the fact that Amritsar (ATQ) is the numero uno transit destination from DEL. |
Once again, this is not a very advisable move: YYZ is a high-demand-poor-yield destination, and AI has done well not to try it again. The first time it was done (as you have mentioned below, and yes, I have some circumstantial evidence of this as well, having flown the route), it was completely politically motivated, and thrust upon AI. The moment AI could find and easy exit, the flight was terminated, for good reason. It bled the airline very badly.
| arpitgupta wrote: | | AI used to operate a highly popular AI 187 ATQ-BHX-YYZ flight which was withdrawn few years ago when the airline was reeling in crisis. But, given the present boom in both pax and airline health, this route can surely be considered for operations and it may prove to be a cash cow for AI or even Jet Airways (9W) for that matter |
And yes, the other reason is possibly that AC have perhaps the best aircraft for the route: the B789 Dream)liner, once they get over the B789's teething troubles. AI does well to code-share, till both the numbers and yields improve, and AI can put its own metal on the route, to complement it, as opposed to compete with a *A partner with a better aircraft type for the route: and that too, non-stop.
| arpitgupta wrote: | | Another option can be to re-route ATQ-DEL-BHX/LHR flights as DEL-ATQ-BHX/LHR flight. This will make more economic and logical sense. |
Again, not really, as the experts say, precisely for the hubbing reason, and the fact that the numbers and yields simply do not justify a dedicated ATQ-BHX/LHR route. The non-stop part of the DEL-LHR route is one of the main USPs, from the numbers and yields point of view. Second, LHR and BHX are quite different markets. There is F demand for LHR, but not really on BHX.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: |
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The AMD-LHR-EWR route looks like Modi delivering on his promise to the Gujju diaspora in London and NJ. What's interesting is that they either don't appear to have any rights to carry pax between EWR and LHR, or their booking engine doesn't reflect such rights as yet. Not sure how they intend to fill an AC across the pond.
I suspect this route may not cannibalize the daily BOM-EWR route, especially since 9W's pulled out of the US altogether, at least with its own metal. |
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iah87
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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AI has traffic rights on the LHR-EWR section. It is not reflected in their booking engine yet. With Kuwait airways gone from LHR-JFK sector (due to some issues selling tickets to Israeli citizens), AI will be only non US or British airline on this route (LHR-NYC). If AI offers very competitive prices they can easily fill the seats on this busy route.
My only question is how many J class tickets will be filled, given that the business traffic from AMD is limited. |
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Caliguy
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Is anyone really disputing that ATQ has CRAP yields (even for India)? At least AMD / Gujarat is a business center. While I agree Modi helped, in the end the Gujarati business community is probably the most influential diaspora group. I am just confused why they are flying to EWR when EWR-BOM-AMD is one flight and just as fast as EWR-LHR-AMD? My mom would much prefer the EWR-BOM-AMD routing to avoid connecting in a HUGE airport and not get a full nights sleep. Did they do it to fill J class with some cheap seats (I would imagine J class from EWR to AMD is bigger than LHR-AMD)? Personally I think AI would have been better off offering 3X week ORD-BOM-AMD and 4X week IAD-DEL-AMD. This would have been more useful to the Gujarati diaspora, |
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Caliguy wrote: | | Is anyone really disputing that ATQ has CRAP yields (even for India)? At least AMD / Gujarat is a business center. While I agree Modi helped, in the end the Gujarati business community is probably the most influential diaspora group. I am just confused why they are flying to EWR when EWR-BOM-AMD is one flight and just as fast as EWR-LHR-AMD? My mom would much prefer the EWR-BOM-AMD routing to avoid connecting in a HUGE airport and not get a full nights sleep. Did they do it to fill J class with some cheap seats (I would imagine J class from EWR to AMD is bigger than LHR-AMD)? Personally I think AI would have been better off offering 3X week ORD-BOM-AMD and 4X week IAD-DEL-AMD. This would have been more useful to the Gujarati diaspora, |
It's to give the Gujju diaspora the two airports they wanted most - LHR and EWR.
It's pointless to have IAD and ORD flights direct to BOM. And there isn't enough traffic to plonk a widebody on the AMD leg. There's a reason why AI has one hub at DEL. |
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747-237
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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http://thehitavada.com/Encyc/2016/5/19/Bhopal-Jabalpur-Hyd-inaugural-Alliance-Air-flight-on-May-24.aspx
Bhopal-Jabalpur-Hyd inaugural Alliance Air flight on May 24
19 May 2016
Air India is all set to give more wings to its “Connect India” programme by launching its services on the two new routes. Alliance Air will start flights on Bhopal-Jabalpur-Hyderabad sectors from May 24, 2016 onwards. Alliance Air will operate a 72 seater aircraft on these routes thus giving connectivity to smaller destinations within the country.
Station Manager, Air India Jabalpur, Pankaj Shrivastava informed that the flight 91-863 would be plied on Bhopal-Jabalpur-Hyderabad route for four days a week on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and Sundays.
The timings of the flights scheduled from May 24 onwards states the Flight Number 91 863 to fly from Bhopal for Jabalpur at 8.45 am and would land at Jabalpur Airport at 9.50 am. From Jabalpur to Hyderabad, the flight would take off at 10.20 am and land at Hyderabad airport at 12.20 pm. In return, from Hyderabad airport, the flight would take off for Jabalpur at 12.50 pm and reach Jabalpur at 2.50 pm. From Jabalpur, the flight would fly for Bhopal at 3.20 pm and land at Bhopal Airport at 4.25 pm.
Shrivastava added that Alliance Air will commence another direct flight 91867 and 91868 between Bhopal and Jabalpur. The flight will operate on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. The proposed timings of the flight number 91867 Bhopal-Jabalpur are from Bhopal, the flight would take off at 6.15 pm and reach Jabalpur at 7.20 pm. From Jabalpur, the flight would take off at 7.50 pm and land at Bhopal Airport at 8.55 pm.
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747-237
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