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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Common sense prevails in Abu Dhabi, by the looks of it
Kingfisher denies report of stake sale to Etihad
(Reuters) - MUMBAI | Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:49pm IST
India's debt-laden Kingfisher Airlines(KING.NS) has denied a newspaper report that it had reached an agreement on selling a 48 percent stake to Etihad Airways.
Kingfisher is in discussion with various investors, including Etihad, for equity investments in the company, but matters are merely at negotiation stages, it said in a statement to the stock exchange.
India changed its Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) policy in September to allow foreign carriers to buy stakes of up to 49 percent in domestic airlines, a move seen as a potential boon for its struggling domestic aviation sector. |
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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747-237 wrote: | 7 Kingfisher jets impounded |
"One more lessor, International Lease Finance Corporation has taken back four Airbus planes from Kingfisher following non-payment of lease rentals," sources said, adding that the aircraft are now parked at the Mumbai airport.
According to the sources, Kingfisher has six Airbus planes leased from ILFC in its fleet of 42 aircraft.
However, the Service Tax Department confirmed today that it had confiscated an ATR plane from the carrier.
http://zeenews.india.com/business/news/companies/kingfisher-lessor-takes-back-4-planes-tax-dept-confiscates-1_66087.html
The ATR 72 in question is VT-KAR. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India.
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Kingfisher's response to the service tax dept.
_________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India.
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ameya Member
Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 3671 Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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This KF turbo leasing is what a dummy company ? |
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ameya Member
Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 3671 Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Eshh.. and they still have the Skytrax 5 star rating on that letter head ! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Man - don't pay tax and then threaten the tax man! _________________ We miss you Nalini! |
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iah87 Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 2567
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Ok Kingfisher, why dont you sue the Income Tax department and see what happens.
And I cant believe that the Cheif Financial Officer is so delusional that they do this. |
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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iah87 wrote: | Ok Kingfisher, why dont you sue the Income Tax department and see what happens.
And I cant believe that the Cheif Financial Officer is so delusional that they do this. |
It's like seeing a dog that's being taken to be neutered, chasing the vet's car. |
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bob Member
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 173 Location: bom
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Law of land does not permit to attach lease attach . India is also signed cap town treaty on lease equipment ..It is just pressur tactics . Tax department can not support thier stand and court of law just wait and see _________________ Mig |
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ameya Member
Joined: 09 May 2007 Posts: 3671 Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:07 am Post subject: |
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1. VJM got a missed call from an abu dhabi no and spread the news that EY is interested
2. EY is really smart to talk to two people and explore opportunities
Think which every way, I think EY will perfectly fit the Indian scenario - they are confused even before entering the market ! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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ameya wrote: | Think which every way, I think EY will perfectly fit the Indian scenario - they are confused even before entering the market ! |
_________________ We miss you Nalini! |
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jasepl Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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OMG wow. And here I thought Etti had at least a little bit of sense.
I'm more crap at maths than most, but even I know that 48% of zero is still zero.
So why on earth do they want to pay thousands of crores for that? Looks even more bizarre seeing how cheaply Delta just got the Virgin. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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If this 48-49% stake in KF by Etihad is true......I wonder what is the logioc of Etihad to do so...... _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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d3vski Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2009 Posts: 440 Location: In the First Class lounge.....
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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jasepl wrote: | OMG wow. And here I thought Etti had at least a little bit of sense.
I'm more crap at maths than most, but even I know that 48% of zero is still zero.
So why on earth do they want to pay thousands of crores for that? Looks even more bizarre seeing how cheaply Delta just got the Virgin. |
If true, i can only guess that the money is for future potential. 1.2 billion people in Kingfisher's catchment area is about 2 or 3 times of what is in Europe.
A bit like the dot.com bubble. Stupendous amounts of money being paid for potential and nothing more. |
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desiguy2447 Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2007 Posts: 37
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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There was no questioning that IT was in talks with EY. If you scroll to the top of the page, you will notice "Kingfisher denies report of stake sale to Etihad". That is what they have denied, not the talking. _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India.
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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747-237 wrote: | There was no questioning that IT was in talks with EY. If you scroll to the top of the page, you will notice "Kingfisher denies report of stake sale to Etihad". That is what they have denied, not the talking. |
Reports of Kingfisher's resurrection are, for now, greatly exaggerated.
According to this FT article from yesterday - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8a9eb9a0-43b4-11e2-844c-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2Eq5aGXWg - “We’re looking at a couple of opportunities in India,” Etihad CEO James Hogan said in an interview in Abu Dhabi on Tuesday. “We’re going through the due diligence at the moment. If we believe we can meet the criteria, we’ll then discuss that with our board.” If any deal is done, it would be a minority stake, “we don’t want to take over someone’s airline,” he added. “We haven’t sat down and done a deal,” said Mr Hogan. “FDI is new to India, we need to understand what we can or can’t do.” |
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me111993 Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 3225 Location: MAA/AMD
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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48% in IT valued at $340 million 49% in VS valued at $360 million _________________ Causal Determinism : We are hardwired to need answers. The Caveman who heard a rustle in the bushes and checked out to see what it was, lived longer than the guy, who assumed it was just a breeze.
- Greg House |
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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me111993 wrote: | 48% in IT valued at $340 million 49% in VS valued at $360 million |
Maybe Mallya added his BS-making machine to the package? That's easily worth the premium.
"In other news, Etihad is said to be interested in picking up a minority stake in Air Koryo, valued at $380 million, with Kim Jong-un's barber thrown in as a free gift". |
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abhijith16 Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2010 Posts: 1575 Location: DOH/IXE/MEL
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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Jeh wrote: |
"In other news, Etihad is said to be interested in picking up a minority stake in Air Koryo, valued at $380 million, with Kim Jong-un's barber thrown in as a free gift". |
HAHAHAHA!!! _________________ <a><img></a> |
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luvleen Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2012 Posts: 179 Location: Bombay
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:04 am Post subject: |
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Just a thought.. Maybe EY is using these 'talks' with IT as a way to drive a hard bargain with 9W.. We all know that there were differences in valuation (which ultimately got sorted out).. Maybe EY is trying to get 9W to sweeten the deal by holding 'talks' with IT.. |
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aeroblogger Member
Joined: 13 Mar 2012 Posts: 788 Location: PVD, HYD, IXE
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:03 am Post subject: |
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luvleen wrote: | Just a thought.. Maybe EY is using these 'talks' with IT as a way to drive a hard bargain with 9W.. We all know that there were differences in valuation (which ultimately got sorted out).. Maybe EY is trying to get 9W to sweeten the deal by holding 'talks' with IT.. | That certainly sounds far more plausible than EY being dumb enough to invest in a dead airline. _________________ Editor of AeroBlogger |
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sumantra Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 4685 Location: New Delhi
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:41 am Post subject: |
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ameya wrote: | 1. VJM got a missed call from an abu dhabi no and spread the news that EY is interested
2. EY is really smart to talk to two people and explore opportunities
Think which every way, I think EY will perfectly fit the Indian scenario - they are confused even before entering the market ! |
Good one, Ameya! |
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Spiderguy252 Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean
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Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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luvleen wrote: | Just a thought.. Maybe EY is using these 'talks' with IT as a way to drive a hard bargain with 9W.. We all know that there were differences in valuation (which ultimately got sorted out).. Maybe EY is trying to get 9W to sweeten the deal by holding 'talks' with IT.. |
That's the RyanAir technique of running away and having a chat with Airbus, though all and sundry know at the back and front of their heads that O' Leary needs 737s for his fleet and Boeing will therefore be the manufacturer he will end up purchasing from, eventually. But in the meantime, he might have sent jitters through the Boeing camp and at the end of the day, will have procured the aircraft at reduced prices.
That shtick makes sense, while Etihad's schmooze with Kingfisher - if the reports are true - does not. Why 'hold talks' with a defunct airline that is struggling to scrape a couple of aircraft together, that is unable to pay a few quid to their handful of employees remaining, and that seemingly has had no business plan that even suggests that they were or are an airline worth their salt?
Could have as well talked to AI about a potential buyout. _________________ Yeah. |
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luvleen Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2012 Posts: 179 Location: Bombay
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Spiderguy252 wrote: | Why 'hold talks' with a defunct airline that is struggling to scrape a couple of aircraft together, that is unable to pay a few quid to their handful of employees remaining, and that seemingly has had no business plan that even suggests that they were or are an airline worth their salt? |
Maybe because EY is aware that Mallya's ego won't let him let go of IT and he is desperate enough to almost do whatever it takes to get IT back up and running.. One of the senior members pointed out that EY has what IT and 9W are desperately in need of - money.. I believe EY may want to go with an airline where it has more say post the stake sale.. That may happen at IT (48% stake) compared to 9W (24% stake).. Also investing in IT virtually means EY gets to start its very own 'mini-airline' here..
Pardon my ignorance but I was just wondering whether
1) a higher stake equates to more seats on the board
2) EY is stupid enough to actually invest in both 9W and IT.. the reason i say this is that looking at EY's recent activities, it's main objective seems to beat EK and entering the Indian market (upon which EK has a strong hold) is one way to do it.. From what I have seen about EY, it's financial position isn't as strong as they make it out to be.. Can anyone confirm that? (I agree this may be a bit off topic so mods please feel free to delete this query).. |
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Spiderguy252 Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:54 am Post subject: |
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luvleen wrote: | 1) a higher stake equates to more seats on the board
2) EY is stupid enough to actually invest in both 9W and IT.. the reason i say this is that looking at EY's recent activities, it's main objective seems to beat EK and entering the Indian market (upon which EK has a strong hold) is one way to do it.. From what I have seen about EY, it's financial position isn't as strong as they make it out to be.. Can anyone confirm that? (I agree this may be a bit off topic so mods please feel free to delete this query).. |
Not at all, it's quite relavent to the discussion actually. Etihad is rumoured to be a severely loss-making airline, and as testament to this fact, have never posted a profit since their inception in 2003-04.
They're not going to purchase two Indian carriers, and especially not Kingfisher - who might as well rename themselves the Ostrich, Kiwi or Emu. _________________ Yeah. |
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:01 am Post subject: |
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luvleen wrote: | One of the senior members pointed out that EY has what IT and 9W are desperately in need of - money.. I believe EY may want to go with an airline where it has more say post the stake sale.. That may happen at IT (48% stake) compared to 9W (24% stake).. Also investing in IT virtually means EY gets to start its very own 'mini-airline' here..
Pardon my ignorance but I was just wondering whether
1) a higher stake equates to more seats on the board
2) EY is stupid enough to actually invest in both 9W and IT.. the reason i say this is that looking at EY's recent activities, it's main objective seems to beat EK and entering the Indian market (upon which EK has a strong hold) is one way to do it.. From what I have seen about EY, it's financial position isn't as strong as they make it out to be.. Can anyone confirm that? (I agree this may be a bit off topic so mods please feel free to delete this query).. |
That's all very well, but what's the point of having complete control of a car that's fallen off a cliff, smashed onto the rocks below and burst into flames? You'd rather time-share a stolid and functioning Ford Mondeo with a bunch of slightly eccentric people.
About EY's own viability - back when EY set up shop, they planned to break even by 2010. They deferred that by a year due to the GFC and recorded a net profit of about US$14 million last year. They're owned by the Abu Dhabi government, which is fabulously wealthy and sensible enough not to demand Etihad fly to minor diaspora hotspots from every two-hut village in the desert with overkill vanity planes, and who probably don't insist every new stationery purchase must be personally approved by the Minister for Textiles. So yes, they're doing okay and they can finance their expansion without much fuss. |
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nadarji Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 305
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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If the aim is to gain entry into the Indian market, wouldnt GoAir be perfect? Add to its fleet, its completed 5 years, and small enough to change it in any way.. |
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Spiderguy252 Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Jeh wrote: | They're owned by the Abu Dhabi government, which is fabulously wealthy and sensible enough not to demand Etihad fly to minor diaspora hotspots from every two-hut village in the desert with overkill vanity planes, and who probably don't insist every new stationery purchase must be personally approved by the Minister for Textiles. |
Naturally few can be particularly as frivolous as Emirates, let alone an airline based 40 miles away, but you're underselling Etihad by a mile there, pun intended.
At the end of the day, they are competing with the likes of QR and EK, not really with the GFs, SVs and KUs of the region. As a result, they possess a fleet of numerous 330s, 340s and 777s with 380s, 787s and 350s on order. Under a decade after they have begun operations, they're already flying to far flung destinations ranging from Australia in the east to South Africa in the south to Canada in the west and to Russia in the north. Cabin services and amenities from all accounts are no worse than its brethren in the neighbourhood.
If that doesn't sound similar to Emirates and Qatar, I don't know what does. _________________ Yeah.
Last edited by Spiderguy252 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Germany-based DVB Bank has threatened to withdraw from the Indian aircraft finance market. The bank says DGCA’s failure to de-register two of its aircraft operated by Kingfisher Airline has prompted such a move. The bank, after termination of lease agreement, has also re-possessed two aircraft in Turkey operated by Kingfisher.
On November 29, the bank wrote to the civil aviation ministry and stated delay in de-registrations is ‘causing increasing damage’ and ‘further wait is not possible’.
In a letter the bank said, “We cannot afford to wait much longer without visible progress in this matter and will have to seek the help and protection of the Indian legal system vis-a-vis the DGCA to do their duty and deregister our aircraft. We also consider to withdraw from the Indian aircraft finance market.”
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/dvb-bank-threatens-to-quit-indian-aircraft-finance-market/1045173/ _________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India.
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Oh absolutely, I think of them as a very sound airline with a quality product. I was alluding to the fact that they're government-owned but not government-run, and so have that provisional financial backing but won't end up being shafted like AI because of it. The exaggerated features of government interference I cited - convoluted, inflexible decision-making and coercion to fly unprofitable routes for prestige or symbolic gain - were in reference to AI. |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Tommorrow is the 18th.....lets see if there is a public statement.... _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11366 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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About a month's salary for 300 of his employees.
http://profit.ndtv.com/news/nation/article-vijay-mallya-donates-3-kg-gold-at-tirumala-314900?pfrom=home-otherstories
Vijay Mallya donates 3 kg gold at Tirumala
Vijay Mallya keeps his word. His employees at Kingfisher may not agree. But today, on his 57th birthday, Mr Mallya went personally to Tirumala to fulfill a promise he had made earlier to the Lord of the Seven Hills that he would pay to gold plate what is called the 'bangaru vakili', or the doorstep to the sanctum sanctorum of the world's richest pilgrimage centre.
Mr Mallya went with 3 kg of gold and handed it over to Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanam (TTD) officials.
Deputy executive officer Chinangari Ramana has confirmed that a receipt was also issued to Mr Mallya for the donation.
This is not the first time that the promoter of the United Breweries group is donating to the temple. He has in the past donated up to 8 kg for gold plating parts of the temple.
Mr Mallya tweeted today: "I am overwhelmed n humbled by ur birthday greetings n good wishes. Thank u from d bottom of my heart. Am in Tirupati. May Balaji bless us all."
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jasepl Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Jeh wrote: | About a month's salary for 300 of his employees.
Vijay Mallya donates 3 kg gold at Tirumala |
But another yacht and more naked calendars are far more impostant than people being able to feed their children or the exchequer getting tax receipts!
We should know this by now. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! |
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iah87 Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 2567
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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21 aircraft ??? They have no more than 7 or 8 aircraft under their control and that is if they settle the dues with the airports for parking & other charges.
DGCA should not hesitate to cancel the license on Jan 1. |
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Jaysit Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 4346
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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A bankrupt corporation donates to a rich, greedy corporation.
That pretty much sums it up. |
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Jeh Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 669 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
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iah87 wrote: | 21 aircraft ??? They have no more than 7 or 8 aircraft under their control and that is if they settle the dues with the airports for parking & other charges.
DGCA should not hesitate to cancel the license on Jan 1. |
I'm quite sceptical about all these speculative articles on IT myself. The Mumbai Mirror one emphatically crowed that the EY-IT deal was done over a week ago and the announcement would come during a grand party at Mallya's Goa villa on the 18th of December. They confidently stated precise valuations and percentage stakes and quoted sources as fact.
Well, it's now December 19 and nothing has come to light, and Mallya himself is desperately touring the various temples of southern India in what seems to be resigned acceptance of the fact that only God can help Kingfisher now. |
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