Airliners-India.com

Prajay · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: New AI 77L

3rd AI 77L is out KPAE.

Its not wearing full colours yet.

2nd from Left

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=363059669&size=o

Very Happy

Prajay

sammyk · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:52 am Post subject:

Yep, VT-ALC. A few more frames after that we'll see the next Jet Airways 77W VT-JEB. Then a few more frames and AIs own 77W VT-ALJ. Can't wait to see that one.

xterra · Member Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 595 Location: DONT KNO

whn will we see em in india???

so now there are 3 a/c sittin at boeing field rite?

is AI ever gng to take delivery of these or they wil be moved in the desert for some time??

deaphen · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 933 Location: India

After seeing 9W's 77w... i have lost all affection for AI's new aircraft. I mean they are the same planes.. but it seems a waste for them going to AI.

Its just a shame they suck so badly.

nitin

HAWK21M · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject:

Nimish · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject:

HAWK21M · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject:

deaphen · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 933 Location: India

karatecatman · Guest

HAWK21M · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject:

Any transcripts of that Interview.
regds
MEL
_________________
Think of the Brighter side !!!

777-237LR · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 140

Here's the interview

Devil's Advocate: Praful Patel
CNN-IBN

HIGH FLIER: Praful Patel says a new CMD for the merged entity will be named within a fortnight.
Can the merger of Air-India and Indian (Airlines) create a world-class airline? That is the key issue Karan Thapar explored with Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel in an interview on Devil’s Advocate.
Karan Thapar: Mr Patel, in a statement in Parliament on March 2, you said: “It is our objective to create a world-class airline which would set fresh benchmarks for efficiency and reliability.” Is that, therefore, the aim and objective behind this merger?
Praful Patel: Certainly. Of course, we would like to make a world-class airline. In those days when Indian (Airlines) and Air-India were formed, they were monopolies. There really wasn’t any problem, because one was domestic and the other international.
But now with the advent of competition, we have got airlines which are domestic like Jet Airways and Sahara and are eligible to fly abroad. Soon, other airlines will be going abroad. So we need an integrated world-class airline of scale and size.
Karan Thapar: So, are you hoping that the new entity would able to compete with Singapore Airlines and Emirates, perhaps even British Airways and Lufthansa?
Praful Patel: Certainly. If you look at the profiles of Emirates and Singapore Airlines, a bulk of their passengers comes from India.
Karan Thapar: In which case, let us look at the challenge you have taken on. There is no doubt that the merger will give you the size and scale to achieve your objective. But the real question is how will the airline operate? Can you guarantee that it will be free to take commercial, independent decisions without political interference?
Praful Patel: Well, absolutely.
Karan Thapar: When you say absolutely, is that a guarantee?
Praful Patel: It is a guarantee. Even today, Indian (Airlines) and Air-India are free to take their decisions.
Karan Thapar: Let us leave even today, I am talking of the future. You are guaranteeing that the new merged entity will take independent, commercial decisions free of political interference?
Praful Patel: Absolutely, guarantee.
Karan Thapar: Let us then test that guarantee. Most people say that the first sign of the autonomy of the airline will in fact be the quality and calibre of the people you appoint to the Board of Directors. Will they be professionals or will they be, in one form or another, government servants and bureaucrats?
Praful Patel: No, I don’t think that is going to happen. Ultimately…
Karan Thapar: What’s not going to happen?
Praful Patel: No. Let the entity come into place and we will ensure that there are people of the highest calibre, people of the highest integrity and even people who understand aviation. Because that is very relevant, it is a specialised business. Those are the kind of the people who must be on the job.
Karan Thapar: Let me point out to you that at the moment, the existing board of Indian (Airlines) and Air-India consists of 16 people, 15 of whom are in one form or another government employees and bureaucrats. Only one is an outsider. Will you ensure that the balance is very different in the new entity?
Praful Patel: Absolutely, that will happen and we will ensure this.
Karan Thapar: Another guarantee?
Praful Patel: Yes. And it will happen in 2007. It is not going to be too far away.
Karan Thapar: So, it is a guarantee?
Praful Patel: Of course.
Karan Thapar: Secondly, can you ensure that the new airline is not subject to politicians and ministers wanting special favours or using it as a place where they can find jobs for their friends or relatives?
Praful Patel: Frankly speaking, Karan, it is not happening even today.
Karan Thapar: It has happened in the past with Air-India many times.
Praful Patel: It may have happened in the past, but it is not happening any more today.
Karan Thapar: MPs have a habit of requesting special favours, wanting upgrades, wanting special treatment when they go abroad. Will that happen here or not?
Praful Patel: Upgrade and special favours are available with every airline in the world.
Karan Thapar: But misuse?
Praful Patel: Misuse and abuse of powers is not going to happen. What is in the interest of the airline, that is only paramount.
Karan Thapar: Let me ask you a test question. If an airline employee of the new merged entity were to be approached by an MP or a minister for some abuse, some unwarranted favour and refused, would he be protected or would he be punished?
Praful Patel: He is protected even today, you can check.
Karan Thapar: Quite often they get pushed out as a result as well.
Praful Patel: No, I don’t think so.
Karan Thapar: Will they be effectively protected?
Praful Patel: Of course they will be protected. As I said while we are talking, they are being protected. They will not have any kind of problems in the future either.
Karan Thapar: So, no political interference. Full stop.
Praful Patel: Correct.
Karan Thapar: You are guaranteeing to me that you will have independent directors who are professionals, you are guaranteeing to me that there will be no political interference. But that apart, you still have a further problem.
As a PSU, the new airline will be subject to the government’s reservation and quotas and to government-fixed salary levels, whereas its competitors will not have to carry that cross. Now, how do you settle this one?
Praful Patel: No, I don’t think that is going to be a problem. The reasons are very simple. In the airline industry, salaries across the board — whether it is private or public — the structure is very high. So that should not be a problem.
Karan Thapar: So, there will be no government limitation on what salaries are paid to critical employees?
Praful Patel: No. There is no real restriction even today. The pilots …
Karan Thapar: Not for pilots, but I am talking about professional managers. That is where your test comes in.
Praful Patel: No. They will not have a problem.
Karan Thapar: Another guarantee?
Praful Patel: Yes, of course.
Karan Thapar: Let me point out to you that if you get it wrong, you run the risk of a new merged entity that will perhaps carry an interest burden of $900 million a year, sinking before it could even swim. That is the downside.
Praful Patel: The interest burden is irrespective of whether you merge the airlines or not. Because we are buying new planes after 20 years.
Karan Thapar: It is one thing to sink when you are not merged and another thing to sink after the merger.
Praful Patel: No, that is not true. In fact, the merger now brings in more synergies, brings in more cost savings, makes it more effective, makes the debt much more serviceable.
Karan Thapar: Let me put one thing to you: Would you now consider an IPO? Last year when I interviewed you, you guaranteed that it would happen by March 31, 2007.
On February 10, your Joint Secretary RK Singh has told the unions that it is not going to happen. His exact words were: “There is no proposal for disinvestment of government interest in the new entity post merger.” So regarding the IPO where do things stand?
Praful Patel: Last year, we would have put the IPO in place. The problem was the markets tanked.
Karan Thapar: This year?
Praful Patel: The issue now came up for the merger. And even advisors to the IPO last year told us that the valuations on a stand-alone basis for Indian (Airlines) and Air-India were not really good.
Karan Thapar: So now that you are merging it, will there be an IPO?
Praful Patel: After merging, we will certainly look at every aspect of how do we raise money, how do we bring in more accountability.
Karan Thapar: When you look at every aspect, are you saying yes, there will be an IPO or you simply saying we will consider it.
Praful Patel: Of course, we will consider it.
Karan Thapar: Only consider it? No guarantee any longer?
Praful Patel: No, no. I am not saying that. We don’t rule out anything. Ultimately, you see, it has to be based on valuations. If the joint entity is, as the advisors told us…
Karan Thapar: Minister, most people say that an IPO is the surest guarantee that the airline will be functioning independently and commercially. That is why people go for an IPO.
Praful Patel: But IPO also does not mean that you lose the public sector character, and that we will not. We will continue to be a PSU by going public and by giving ESOPs to employees also.
Karan Thapar: But will you go public on the stock exchange also?
Praful Patel: I have said it on many occasions.
Karan Thapar: But that is no longer guaranteed. Is it guaranteed?
Praful Patel: No.
Karan Thapar: So, it is only considered?
Praful Patel: No.
Karan Thapar: Last year it was guaranteed, now it is on the books to be considered?
Praful Patel: No, the government had never taken a formal decision.
Karan Thapar: You said so to me in an interview. You guaranteed that it would happen by March 31.
Praful Patel: Yes, but that was because the valuations were not coming right on a stand-alone basis.
Karan Thapar: Let us move beyond the IPO. The second critical test of whether this new entity would operate independently and commercially is the quality of professionals at the very top, particularly the CEO. Will you have someone who is a professional businessman with experience of handling difficult, awkward mergers?
Praful Patel: No, I don’t think that a businessman is the only solution. We will have the right man at the right place. That is what I guarantee.
Karan Thapar: You mean the right man at the right place could be in your eyes be, in fact, a government civil servant?
Praful Patel: It could be a civil servant. Why do you think all civil servants are unable to function?
Karan Thapar: Except that they don’t have business experience and they don’t have experience of handling mergers.
Praful Patel: I think it is a very cynical view if that is there.
Karan Thapar: It is a truthful view.
Praful Patel: No. I think I have been in government long enough to know and to understand that there are excellent bureaucrats who can handle absolutely difficult situations. And if the Ministry of Civil Aviation has become vibrant, has transformed, is delivering and is being visible for the right reasons and not for the wrong reasons, it is because it is a combination of the will and hard work of the bureaucrats put together.
Karan Thapar: I put to you that the man who will be the CEO, or the woman, will be handling a task that in fact no bureaucrat in India has ever handled in 57 years of Independence: the merger of two entities in a highly competitive domestic as well as foreign market. That is why I say it to you that if you were to choose Tulsidas of Air-India or Trivedi of the Indian Airlines, they are neither businessmen nor do they have experience of this tricky situation. Therefore, you run an unnecessary risk.
Praful Patel: Well, I don’t think there is a risk. The government has got its own way of functioning and we will ensure that we find the right person for the right job.
Karan Thapar: You are literally perhaps a week away from the start of the merger on April 1, if you stand by the date you yourself have announced. Who will be your CEO?
Praful Patel: Well, you will see in a week’s time.
Karan Thapar: Is that a secret you can’t tell us today?
Praful Patel: The process of consultation in government is going on and I cannot give you anything until something is formalised.
Karan Thapar: Has the decision been made?
Praful Patel: No, the decision has not been made.
Karan Thapar: You mean there is a week to go and you still have not decided who the top man will be?
Praful Patel: No, it is not a week to go.
Karan Thapar: So when will, in fact, the merger start?
Praful Patel: We have said 16 weeks from the day of the decision of the government.
Karan Thapar: That is to finalise the merger at the top levels, but what about the CEO?
Praful Patel: The CEO will come in place within the next fortnight.
Karan Thapar: Within the next fortnight?
Praful Patel: Yes.
Karan Thapar: By April 5, will you have a CEO?
Praful Patel: Yes, of course.
Karan Thapar: In place?
Praful Patel: In place.
Karan Thapar: Not just announced, but in place.
Praful Patel: Yes, chairman-and-managing director, that is what we call it.
Karan Thapar: Let me put one thing else to you. People say you are doing something that has never been done before. There have been several American mergers that have failed, and you know it.
Therefore, will you in this instance, to give yourself the requisite expertise, hire someone from either Air France-KLM or Lufthansa-Swiss Air who has handled such mergers to give you the necessary advice during the initial tricky stages.
Praful Patel: We have Accenture, which is a global consulting company and has been advising on the entire nitty-gritty of the merger.
Karan Thapar: But they may not have the experience you need. Would you hire someone from these two merged airlines with the experience?
Praful Patel:No, no. What do you mean! Accenture is a consulting company; they take the best practices, give us the models of all the international airlines.
Karan Thapar: You think that is sufficient for your purpose?
Praful Patel: Of course it is enough. And of course we have good people in the system. Don’t think Indian (Airlines) and Air-India are devoid of people; that they have been functioning for all these 50 years without the right people or without people of experience.
Karan Thapar: Except for the fact, Minister, they have to face a challenge no one in this country has ever handled.
Praful Patel: Yes, because the problem was that for 20 years, the government did not allow them to buy planes. It was not a fault of Air-India or Indian (Airlines), neither that of the people there. I can tell you I can name 10 fine officers in each airline who I think are capable of taking these airlines or as joint entity to the next generation.
Karan Thapar: You want to name 10 fine officers in each airline, and in fact this is the other problem you face. Many of the top officers in your airline are either retiring or their tenures are about to end. I am talking about VK Verma, the commercial director of Air-India. He retires in eight months time. Punhani, the financial director, he goes at the end of this year. Even your CMD is on extension.
Praful Patel: You mean to say there are no other people in the organisation?
Karan Thapar: But you are going to lose critical people at critical times.
Praful Patel: Do you know that every airline of success in India, like Jet Airways, Kingfisher, Sahara, IndiGo or any airline, has got the best people from Indian (Airlines) and Air-India in the past?
Karan Thapar: Now you need to keep them, not hand them over to others. That is what I am saying.
Praful Patel: It is not a question of loss.
Karan Thapar: Can’t you retain them?
Praful Patel: Once people go, we always get the next lot of people.
Karan Thapar: Minister, you want to create a world-class airline that can compete with Singapore Airlines and Emirates. Now you know the quality of an airline is determined by the quality of its personnel. But by dragging your feet over the critical issue of 10-year wage arrears to Indian (Airline) employees, you are virtually ensuring that 55 per cent of the workforce of your new merged entity would be disgruntled and unhappy. Is that wise?
Praful Patel: No, I do not agree with that kind of a view. See, what you are talking is about wage negotiations that have not taken place for the last 10 years.
Karan Thapar: You dragged your feet at this critical point. Grant it.
Praful Patel: We have not dragged our feet, my friend. There are many rules and within government, there are guidelines. We have to function within the scope of those guidelines and yet after achieving what we have to, we still have to get a world-class airline.
It is a challenge. I am not saying that everything two and two is so simplistically put as four. It is going to be actually working hard to achieving the desired objective.
Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this. You are talking of a sum of money of around Rs 700 crore. Do you really believe that it’s so large that you want to endanger the objective of merger by refusing to pay it?
Praful Patel: No. Who is saying that we are not going to pay it?
Karan Thapar: So, are you prepared to pay those arrears?
Praful Patel: We have to.
Karan Thapar: You have not committed yourself to it as yet.
Praful Patel: Merger or no merger, employees’ issues have to be resolved.
Karan Thapar: But will the arrears be paid?
Praful Patel: The wage negotiations and all these discussions are still under way. There is no finality yet. Hypothetically, if there were no merger, would you not want to see that a wage negotiation takes place?
Karan Thapar: I would want to see it. But the problem is that Indian (Airlines) unions today are absolutely convinced that while the government may raise their wages to Air-India levels, the arrears for 10 years won’t be paid. Are you now saying to them, in this interview, don’t be worried those arrears will be tackled?
Praful Patel: I am saying, don’t be worried, we will find ways to find an amicable solution to all the pending issues. That is what I have assured them.
Karan Thapar: Including the arrears?
Praful Patel: Something will have to be done.
Karan Thapar: ‘Something will have to be done’. Let us hope that something is something positive.
Praful Patel: Do you want to see both airlines sinking, rather than seeing an entire opportunity of becoming a formidable player?
Karan Thapar: That is why I ask the question. When 55 per cent of your workforce is disgruntled, are you not going to sink the airline?
Praful Patel: They are not disgruntled.
Karan Thapar: They will be if they don’t get their arrears. But you have just now said something will be done. That is opening a window of hope. Let us leave it there. Let us turn to the second management issue that is going to be difficult for you.
It is the accommodation and adjustment required of Air-India managers. Because historically promotions at the executive level have been lot faster in Indian (Airlines) than in Air-India. You are going to end up with several instances where Indian (Airlines) general managers are younger than Air-India deputy general managers, even though the latter have more experience and more seniority. How will you handle that?
Praful Patel: There is a well laid out procedure to solve these kind of problems. And, mind you, before we went into this exercise, a lot of work, detailing and a lot of application of mind has gone into this process. Only when we see there is hope at the end of the tunnel, are we going into this process. We have not done this blindly.
Karan Thapar: Air-India employees, just like Indian (Airline) employees, are listening to you carefully. Are you saying to their senior general managers, I will not allow this tricky situation to become a problem for you?
Praful Patel: Yes.
Karan Thapar: So, you are also saying to them that I know I need the experience of Air-India managers for the new airline because they will be your only staff with experience of handling foreign locations and you don’t want them to suddenly to go to Jet or Kingfisher.
Praful Patel: You are then absolutely misinformed that only Air-India managers who work abroad are the people who run the airline.
Karan Thapar: At a very small level, we are talking of Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok.
Praful Patel: My friend, they are all people who work in Mumbai and Delhi and who are transferred there (foreign locations) for two, three or four years. Indian (Airlines) has got enough number of managers who are working in Dubai, in Kuwait, in Singapore.
Karan Thapar: But you have no one in Indian (Airlines), who has got experience of Paris, of London, of Washington, of New York.
Praful Patel: But neither did these Air-India fellows who go there have the experience. They go there for just two or three years.
Karan Thapar: But they do now.
Praful Patel: I do not buy this theory.
Karan Thapar: You are taking back with the right hand what you gave with the left. You gave an assurance to Air-India, now you seem to be undermining it.
Praful Patel: I do not buy this theory of trying to say that just because few people are posted outside for two or three years, they know how to run an airline. In fact the people who are running the airline have never really been abroad.
Karan Thapar: All right, you brought a smile on Air-India union faces. Now you wiped it off yourself, that is your prerogative. Let us move to the last critical question. An airline depends upon its identity. That identity is its brand and that is in fact its name. What would be the name of this new entity?
Praful Patel: It is yet to be decided.
Karan Thapar: You have not made up your mind?
Praful Patel: No.
Karan Thapar: You have not made up your mind! It is 10 days away, perhaps a week away.
Praful Patel: It is not just 10 days away. We have got the best of minds to give us a market analysis of people’s recall value as to what should be the name of the airline.
Karan Thapar: If people’s recall value is so important, Air-India has international recognition. The word Indian is awkward. Indian Airlines is not known outside India. Therefore, I suggest to you that it makes commercial sense to stick with Air-India. Do you agree?
Praful Patel: Let the advice come and we will consider it.
Karan Thapar: Do you personally have an opinion?
Praful Patel: I don’t want to voice an opinion because I am an arbitrator, I am a judge in this entire proceeding. I don’t want to be sounding for or against anybody or any interest group. I will just want to say that India should have a top-class, world-class airline and it should be an airline, which can take on the best.
Karan Thapar: What about the mascot and the logo? Time, effort and money for decades have been spent on popularising the Maharaja and the Centaur. Does it make sense to jettison them?
Praful Patel: You will see everything in two weeks. And I am sure it will be broadly to the satisfaction of all concerned.
Karan Thapar: Who will make these critical decisions about name, about mascot, about logo? Will it be politicians, will it be bureaucrats or will it be professionals?
Praful Patel: Professionals.
Karan Thapar:You mean that?
Praful Patel: We have got the best team of professionals advising us. Within a week, they will come with their recommendations and I will go purely by their professional advice.
Karan Thapar: And you won’t be overridden by your Cabinet colleagues or by Congress or NCP pressure.
Praful Patel: Not to worry.
Karan Thapar: Mr Patel, a pleasure talking to you on Devil’s Advocate.
Praful Patel: Thank you.

Nimish · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:48 pm Post subject:

Excellent interview - PP is a really smart dude, one to be so committed to this whole process and second to come on these programs and convey his professionalism!

Good luck to the combined entity (I hope it's called Air India Very Happy

)

the_380 · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:54 pm Post subject:

HAWK21M · Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject:

I Like Karan's questions Smile

Time will tell.
regds
MEL
_________________
Think of the Brighter side !!!

stealthpilot · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB

They usually post the video online as well right?
Any links to the video?
_________________
eP007

sammyk · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:14 am Post subject:

Nothing wrong with his questions but his delivery sucks. If you are going to ask a question at least wait for an answer and let the person finish. The constant interruptions and the "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude was unnecessary in my opinion. When you ask if you can interrupt and you don't get a response that usually means no.

Aseem · Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ

maut3000 · Member Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 160 Location: Mumbai

HAWK21M · Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the Video links.
regds
MEL
_________________
Think of the Brighter side !!!