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karatecatman Guest
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stealthpilot Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: |
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This is a very touchy subject and although I sympathize with the first class passengers, I sympathize more with the dead woman’s family.
What can the airline do in a scenario like this? If the plane has empty seats great, you can move other passengers around. But if the flight is full then what? Can you stick a dead body in the toilet? Anything the airline staff does will be disrespectful and cause grief to someone.
IMHO I really do feel sorry for the first class passengers- I know it’s unsetting to fly in close proximity to a dead body. However I also think that’s a better option than leaving the body in economy class or sticking it in a toilet (if they could, that is)
If i were in first class I wouldn’t want to listen to the family crying the rest of the flight, they were obviously in shock- but how can the airline tell them to be quite in first class after something like this happens? I can't imagine the grief they went through.
And as for health concerns, a doctor pronounced the woman dead. So if the doctor said it was ok to keep the body in first class, I would follow his opinion and not the passengers.
Unfortunately things like this will continue to happen, and the crew can be helped out if the company has a specific way of dealing with these situations. Something like this affects everyone on the flight, even the crew. It might sound disrespectful or selfish, but the passengers who were most affected should be assisted in some way. The article said the BA staff told the pax to ‘deal with it’ ….. probably not the best thing to say but remember the crews are human, and under a lot of stress.
The first class passengers don’t have to be compensated, but I think they should be in some way. Heck, a personalized hand written note apologizing for the situation might be enough. _________________ eP007 |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Its better to Apoligize later than seek prior permission
regds
MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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malQ Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 713 Location: Delhi, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:01 am Post subject: |
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I would think that the crew could either divert to attempt to revive. Or they could carry body-bags on board and store in the crew rest spaces.
Alternately, galley service from one galley can be stopped, and the body laid to rest there with curtains drawn.
To belt a dead body up, even on a full flight, is something that needs to be fixed. |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Is there an international standard on dealing with such situations? How does our own AI deal with such a situation on a long haul flight? |
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maut3000 Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 160 Location: Mumbai
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | Is there an international standard on dealing with such situations? How does our own AI deal with such a situation on a long haul flight? |
AI did transfer a dead person'd body into the cargo hold on a flight to London a few weeks back. The passanger had died on the way. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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And also made a mess of it.
The (Russian )pilot forgot to inform the ground staff and the unfortunate man came out along with the rest of the luggage on the carousal.
Passengers were shell shocked.
Aircraft was Air India's Neelambari (777) |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Is there an international standard on dealing with such situations? How does our own AI deal with such a situation on a long haul flight? |
SQ is supposed to have a corpse cupboard! And the cabin crew are taught to deal with it humanely. Directives include disease control and quarantine.
But all depends from airline to airline.
In Air India the policy is to JUST divert if it can;t be handled by the cabin crew. The same with Thai and Malaysia.
Air India anyway is upgrading facilities on its entire fleet. Each aircraft will now have a telemedicine satellite aperture linked to Apollo and Dr. Devi Shetty's hospitals (cardiology mainly). Crew are to undergo intensive training and transmit vital medical details and then carry out the basic procedures.
Of course, there will still be a call for a doctor onboard. |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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karatecatman wrote: | the unfortunate man came out along with the rest of the luggage on the carousal. |
OMG - I did not realize that the dead body came out with the baggage on the carousal!! That helps explain some of the furore raised at that time. |
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PlaneObsessed Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 58 Location: SEA
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | karatecatman wrote: | the unfortunate man came out along with the rest of the luggage on the carousal. |
OMG - I did not realize that the dead body came out with the baggage on the carousal!! That helps explain some of the furore raised at that time. |
Oh GOD!!!! that is very upsetting.
Russian pilot aside, no one noticed while it was taken out of the plane, placed on trolleys, loaded onto the carousal?
Are you sure the body actually came out on the baggage carousal?
If this indeed did happen, the responsible parties should be fired.
Regarding the the BA article in question, I respect the fact that BA didn't just strap the body into the LAV or closet. As far as the complaining First Class and Business Class Pax are concerned, they need to be a bit more respectful and perhaps even put themselves in BA's shoes and see if they had done it any different? Not like BA chose an inappropriate time of death for the deceased pax.
The only thing I can think that BA couldve done differently is Perhaps ask the pax to move to the empty seats in the front and placed the body in the last row so that the Pax werent "depressed" by the sight. _________________ "They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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This is the report:
A major scare was created at Birmingham Airport when baggage handlers unloaded a dead passenger body along with luggage from an Air India aircraft.
The body was of a passenger — 82-year-old Sucha Singh — who had suffered a heart attack on board and was pronounced dead in Bucharest, where the plane had landed for giving the passenger emergency help. Passengers were in for a huge shock when the body was sent out along with luggage onto the carousal.
This led to a delay in clearing the other luggage and passengers were left stranded for hours without their baggage, the Birmingham Airport manager has said. There were even attempts to register it as a murder case.
An Air India spokesperson at Birmingham has blamed it on communication gap between the airline and UK authorities.
Mumbai-Birmingham-Toronto flight AI 187, Air India Boeing 777 Neelambari was on its way to Birmingham when the passenger suffered a heart attack and the flight was diverted to Bucharest after cabin crew couldn't handle the situation after basic medical care. The Chief Airhostess Ms. Rema Bhasin then alerted the pilot Capt. Veseline Ko of a possible diversion.
Doctors at the airport pronounced the passenger dead on arrival, and Romanian authorities even issued a death certificate. The pilot then decided to put the body in the hold as other passengers inside the flight would not have been comfortable being near it. The body was put in a plastic casket and stowed in the luggage hold, an Air India spokesperson at Birmingham has said.
But when the aircraft landed at Birmingham Airport on December 21, the Russian pilot, Capt. Ko, forgot to inform the authorities and left the airport for the crew hotel without reporting the incident.
Air India however stands by its stance that baggage handlers were informed about the "special cargo".
The 56-year-old pilot has been temporarily grounded after being quizzed by police following the incident on Thursday. Officers arrived to arrest the pilot on suspicion of causing a public nuisance by forgetting about the body. A West Midlands Police spokeswoman has said he was arrested and questioned but later released without charge and no further action will be taken.
Kurapati Row, regional manager for Air India, has said there was some surprise among the baggage handlers as there was not enough time to inform everyone about the body, but we had spoken to their supervisors who were aware of what had happened. The pilot was not aware he would be needed. He will not be reprimanded.
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stealthpilot Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
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karatecatman wrote: |
In Air India the policy is to JUST divert if it can;t be handled by the cabin crew. The same with Thai and Malaysia. |
I’m sure most airlines do that. If it’s evident that there is a medical emergency the plane would divert. But if the person is already dead (declared dead by a doctor on board) then diverting may not make sense.
malQ wrote: | I would think that the crew could either divert to attempt to revive. Or they could carry body-bags on board and store in the crew rest spaces. |
Again, I ‘assume’ the crew would have obviously thought about diverting.
Leaving a body in the galley area is possible, but what about securing it? Can it be fastened down with a seat belt extension or anything? _________________ eP007 |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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stealthpilot wrote: |
I’m sure most airlines do that. If it’s evident that there is a medical emergency the plane would divert. But if the person is already dead (declared dead by a doctor on board) then diverting may not make sense.
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AFAIK a passenger is never declared dead in the air, its after the aircraft lands and the medical team on ground can declare that 'He dies mid-air' but in the air they cannot declare him as dead _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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maut3000 wrote: | AI did transfer a dead person'd body into the cargo hold on a flight to London a few weeks back. The passanger had died on the way. |
Hi Maut3000 - welcome to AI.net! |
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stealthpilot Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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the_380 wrote: | AFAIK a passenger is never declared dead in the air, its after the aircraft lands and the medical team on ground can declare that 'He dies mid-air' but in the air they cannot declare him as dead |
O that seems strange, do you know the exact reason? If it were done by a physician wouldn’t that suffice?
Maut3000 - welcome again _________________ eP007 |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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stealthpilot wrote: |
O that seems strange, do you know the exact reason? If it were done by a physician wouldn’t that suffice?
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Reason is that there are not sufficient equipments available on board to actually prove whether he is dead or not.
There was one incident where my dad's friend a Cabin Crew in AI was on a flight from FRA-DEL and a passenger reported that the passenger next to him had almost leaned over him ... when they called the passenger he didn't respond and a doctor on board said his heart beats had stopped and he was dead... but still the pilots made a landing in Turkey (can't remember exactly) and the passenger was sent to the hospital and later the captain was actually thanked because the passenger was still alive! _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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