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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: 9W announces direct London-Ahmedabad from April 3 |
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Jey Airways has just announced on NDTV that it will add a direct flight to London from Ahmedabad from April 3.
It will fly two non-stop flights per week to London from Ahmedabad initially and fly three flights a week from May with its A330-200 aircraft. Jet already flies to London from Mumbai, New Delhi and Amritsar amd expects half its overall revenue from international operations by March 2009. |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is this something new or the existing flight that was already loaded on the GDS systems 2-3 weeks ago? |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1897 Location: BOM
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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Seems they wanna permanently end up operating LHR flights _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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the_380 wrote: | Seems they wanna permanently end up operating LHR flights |
Well 9W is doing the right thing with QR coming in later tis year and already KU , AI provide services to LHR ... 9W is doing the right thing by intrducing the LHR - AMD flights
probably 9W will be the bet airline operating on this route |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Sir Mel,
Thsi is part of the quote I could find from Goyal's interview to 2 British papers:
"I would like to see in the next two, three years that we build eight, nine flights a day to the UK. We want to operate to Manchester, Birmingham, Glasgow and we are looking at Gatwick," Goyal said.
He said there are 1.4 million Indian-origin people living in Britain and the Civil Aviation Authority expects 1.5 million people to fly from Britain to India this year, nearly three times the number five years ago.
"The UK is a natural (destination) because of the Indians living here. We know the market. There is an automatic affinity," he said.
The 57-year-old Goyal said many of the estimated 28 million Indians living overseas already know about his airline.
But the company wanted a wider audience and had hired design agency Landor Associates to work on the brand, he said.
"We not only want Indians, we also want English, Europeans living here (to travel by Jet Airways)... We want to be one of the best five airlines in the world," he added.
**
The airline has hired international branding and design consultancy Landor associates for advice on a global brand strategy. It has also embarked on a revamp of its economy and business-class products.
All new aircraft entering its fleet will have in-flight entertainment systems and higher seat pitch (leg-room), Jet Airways chairman Naresh Goyal said. While the domestic upgrade will be launched in the next few weeks, the new international product will be in place by the summer of ‘07, Mr Goyal said.
The airline is also talking to aircraft manufacturers about the possibility of Live TV. Jet Airways’ existing business class product called ‘Club Premiere’ brings in about 20% of the revenue for the airline. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Okay got it!!!
There only seem to be a reference to Landor
Interview was in 2006 and in The Guardian.
Naresh Goyal: Indian high-flyer with the world on his radar
He used to work for his uncle. Now he runs India's largest domestic airline - and is aiming even higher
David Teather
Friday July 21, 2006
The Guardian
http://tinyurl.com/23vc26 |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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The Jet interior redesign is supposed to be on the lines of Gulf Air, is the buzz in Air India.
Detials of Landor's Gulf Air 2004-05 redesign is suposed to be what is being done.
http://www.landor.com/?do=cPortfolio.getCase&caseid=1041
Goyal of coure has a very soft spot for the Gulf airlines |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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e has a soft corner only for GULF AIR becase he is an ex- GF employee |
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aarbee Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 328 Location: WAS/AMD
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | Is this something new or the existing flight that was already loaded on the GDS systems 2-3 weeks ago? |
It's the same ones from 2-3 weeks ago.
avbuff wrote: |
Well 9W is doing the right thing with QR coming in later tis year and already KU , AI provide services to LHR ... 9W is doing the right thing by intrducing the LHR - AMD flights
probably 9W will be the bet airline operating on this route |
I'm not quite sure about this. With QR and KU you can have an onward connection to US.
With these flights to LHR, I'm not even sure one can catch late European flights also. |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Well thats right but 9W mostly relies on O& D traffic by m6y statement i meant that 9W should create a niche for itself so that they can have their share of loyal passeners |
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starvmgopal Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 Posts: 54 Location: USA/Bangalore
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: more exciting 9W news |
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Wow Jet Airways is set to rival BA on the India to LHR sector!!!
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/03/13/stories/2007031303361000.htm
on the heels of the AMD-LHR announcement, they seem to be getting ready to start a BLR-LHR flight. Give some competittion to BA (which flies daily to BLR on a B 777----probably much coonecting traffic to the US) Not to mention LH's B747-400 daily and AF's A330-200
now if they also start a HYD-LHR flight they'll have a monopoly on that route and also a kerala to LHR flight would also be a money mint! _________________ -Vikram |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: more exciting 9W news |
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starvmgopal wrote: | they seem to be getting ready to start a BLR-LHR flight. Give some competittion to BA (which flies daily to BLR on a B 777----probably much coonecting traffic to the US) Not to mention LH's B747-400 daily and AF's A330-200 |
BA's BLR-LHR flight has mainly traffic to/from the USA. Now if 9W finds another of it's late night LHR slots, that's not going to be any use to connect to VS or UA's USA flights. I hope that 9W schedules the BLR-LHR in a manner to allow for US connectivity. |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: more exciting 9W news |
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starvmgopal wrote: | Wow Jet Airways is set to rival BA on the India to LHR sector!!!
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2007/03/13/stories/2007031303361000.htm
on the heels of the AMD-LHR announcement, they seem to be getting ready to start a BLR-LHR flight. Give some competittion to BA (which flies daily to BLR on a B 777----probably much coonecting traffic to the US) Not to mention LH's B747-400 daily and AF's A330-200
now if they also start a HYD-LHR flight they'll have a monopoly on that route and also a kerala to LHR flight would also be a money mint! |
Hmm maybe in a few years time 9W will have its own terminal at LHR !!!!
btw on a serious note is it possible for 9W to get rights between LHR and some US destinations ... caan work for them considering the increasing number of LHR flights |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I think its possible for 9W to get rights to operate flights form LHR to some cities in US.It won't be a bad idea for them to start a flght to BOS,ATL or IAD via LHR.Hopefuly it should be from BLR or MAA.There are lot of Indians living there. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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G-BYGB wrote: | I think its possible for 9W to get rights to operate flights form LHR to some cities in US. |
Under the current Bermuda II treaty, there's no way that 9W can get permissions to operate from LHR to the US. Only BA/VS and AA/UA have rights to the LHR-USA route, besides a few other airlines with "grandfathered" rights (like AI, KU etc.). |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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well not even Canada ? yhey could go furter to YUL or YVR |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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avbuff wrote: | well not even Canada ? yhey could go furter to YUL or YVR |
Canada is a different beast altogether, I'm not sure about the bilaterals involved between India/UK/Canada. |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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anyways but i would love to see 9W as a key airline between UK and India
If only they could start routes like
HYD - LHR , MAA - LHR and COK - LHR ... we have something to boast about Jet airways |
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Akshay Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 315 Location: Mumbai
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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On reading all the replies, Jet certainly seems to have potential to be one of the best airlines of Asia _________________ MRVC Mania. My blog dedicated to the new violet-white suburban rakes of Mumbai. |
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tayaramecanici Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 648
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: more exciting 9W news |
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Nimish wrote: | starvmgopal wrote: | they seem to be getting ready to start a BLR-LHR flight. Give some competittion to BA (which flies daily to BLR on a B 777----probably much coonecting traffic to the US) Not to mention LH's B747-400 daily and AF's A330-200 |
BA's BLR-LHR flight has mainly traffic to/from the USA. Now if 9W finds another of it's late night LHR slots, that's not going to be any use to connect to VS or UA's USA flights. I hope that 9W schedules the BLR-LHR in a manner to allow for US connectivity. |
The yields are better on the terminators to LHR, the input costs to mount flts say from LGW to USA is very high so is the code sharing with other US majors op to LHR, and with the possibility of OSkies between EU - USA probably US airlines will code share with airlines feeding into their London services to the benefit of the feeder airlines, Flts to US then will be operated round the clock (except for the curfew hrs).
With these P2P 9W is going to cut right thru BAs terminating pax further impacting their trans-atlantic services, late night arrivals are perfect for a overnight rest and hit the markets next day. With LSE sparring against NYSE to be the centre of world trade these flts will definately help in tipping the scales in favour of LSE considering the increasing outsourcing of FINANCIAL ANALYSIS to India leading to low op cost in maintaing a global office in THE CITY.
As per analyst at Deutsche Bank a O S between EU-USA will cost BA anywhere between 23% - 47% loss in revenue.
AI needs to emulate 9W in creating a robust network of P2P to Indian diaspora dominated dest without flirting with the idea of alliance. The % of traffic headed to cities not served by AI presently is miniscule to offer any advantage to it from an alliance. The addition of say IT along with 9W and AI to the NRI dominated dest will casuse havoc to the bottom lines of EU airlines especially AF with its heavy dependence on onward traffic to and from India.
On a diff note does it raise a doubt in the minds of avg observer that 9W seems to having a huge slice of the Indian intl traffic cake and eat it too. Considering the other domestics players are struggling to stay afloat and poor old VM is flying his Rolls Royce in the sky half empty around the country. COUGARS assertions do make sense even if there isn't any tangible evidence........circumstantial will do for now. |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: more exciting 9W news |
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tayaramecanici wrote: | The yields are better on the terminators to LHR |
Is that true? IMO yields might have been great during the time when there was very limited supply on India-LHR, but now with so much supply, surely the yields are better for India-US than India-LHR? Any info/insight much appreciated
tayaramecanici wrote: | With these P2P 9W is going to cut right thru BAs terminating pax further impacting their trans-atlantic services, late night arrivals are perfect for a overnight rest and hit the markets next day. |
I agree - this is going to directly impact BA's terminating traffic on the India-LHR sector, but I would imagine any reduction in terminating traffic would be offset by an increase in the connecting traffic. So I'm not sure if BA would loose in the end, at least not until there's significantly more competition on the India-USA sector.
tayaramecanici wrote: | On a diff note does it raise a doubt in the minds of avg observer that 9W seems to having a huge slice of the Indian intl traffic cake and eat it too. |
S2 has had the same opportunity as 9W, but have squandered it completely. It seems like only 9W has had the guts to plan ahead and order the right mix of wide bodies to get their intl ops off the ground. Plus they've followed up after the orders, by actually launching routes and planning for newer routes (like BOM-BRU-EWR or BOM-PVG-SFO). |
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tayaramecanici Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 648
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Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: more exciting 9W news |
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[/quote]Is that true? IMO yields might have been great during the time when there was very limited supply on India-LHR, but now with so much supply, surely the yields are better for India-US than India-LHR? Any info/insight much appreciated [/quote]
BA annual reports detailing 10% + revenue generated from India second only to USA sector as the top grosser. Statistical evidence to suggest that cost of hubbing decreases the yield, a more tangible evidence the attraction of B787 with its potential for P2P.
[/quote]I agree - this is going to directly impact BA's terminating traffic on the India-LHR sector, but I would imagine any reduction in terminating traffic would be offset by an increase in the connecting traffic. So I'm not sure if BA would loose in the end, at least not until there's significantly more competition on the India-USA sector.[/qoute]
Its the terminators with their better yield that pay for and keep the break even loads low. Their loss increases the breakeven loads further eroding margins
[/quote]S2 has had the same opportunity as 9W, but have squandered it completely. It seems like only 9W has had the guts to plan ahead and order the right mix of wide bodies to get their intl ops off the ground. Plus they've followed up after the orders, by actually launching routes and planning for newer routes (like BOM-BRU-EWR or BOM-PVG-SFO).[/quote]
Where does S2 stand after being hoodwinked down the alley of M & A. They have always been squandering hence they offered themselves for SALE. And of all the airlines the one and only other pvt operator bids in at a ridiculous price only scuttle others and S2. The very fact that 9W was allowed to take over S2 without the possibility of other being given the approval to fly intl is anti-competitive and blatantly biased in favour of 9W. There is no doubt that 9W will renew its offer to buy S2 albeit at a lower price rather that lose the $500m(or less) in the escrow acct.[/i] |
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Karan69 Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 1334
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:38 am Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: |
Under the current Bermuda II treaty, there's no way that 9W can get permissions to operate from LHR to the US. Only BA/VS and AA/UA have rights to the LHR-USA route, besides a few other airlines with "grandfathered" rights (like AI, KU etc.). |
Actally mate Bermuda 11 is only for UK and US based airlines not for others , the new bilateral signed between India and UK in 2005 gave them full fifth freedom rights to USA---altough i am not sure if the cities are the same as served under Bermuda 11 or not, but i am sure Indian carriers have full 5th freedom on India-US via UK even LHR.
Karan |
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avbuff Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031
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Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:47 am Post subject: |
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well airlines fom india will have 5th freeom rights beteen UK and USA
from all points in the UK except LHR
i think so the Bermuda treaty is taken into consideration |
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777-237LR Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 140
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
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Slots available at London Hearthrow: read on, very interesting!!
From The Sunday Times
March 11, 2007
The flight now leaving Heathrow is...empty
Dominic O’Connell and Maurice Chittenden
AN airline is flying an empty passenger jet between Heathrow and Cardiff on a daily basis — just so that it can hold on to its lucrative slots at the London airport.
The flights, which have pumped hundreds of tons of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere in the past five months, threaten to undermine the aviation industry’s public stance of trying to reduce emissions.
The flights are being run by British Mediterranean Airways (BMed) — until recently part-owned by the family of Wafic Said, the Syrian-born financier — which flies the Airbus passenger plane from Heathrow to Cardiff and back six times a week. As a British Airways franchise, it pays a percentage of its revenue to BA in return for operating in its livery.
No tickets are sold and all 124 passenger seats are empty. Because there are no passengers, the “ghost” flights, which have run since October, do not appear on departure or arrival boards.
The sole purpose is to keep hold of landing slots on runways at Heathrow, the world’s busiest airport for international flights. The slots can be reallocated if an airline does not use them regularly. They are so valuable that they can change hands among airlines for up to £10m each.
The disclosure comes as David Cameron, the Tory leader, attempted this weekend to seize the “green” initiative with plans to hit airlines and passengers with new taxes. These could be calculated according to the number of miles they fly each year.
In The Sunday Times today, David Miliband, the environment secretary, proposes giving people an annual carbon allowance, making them financially responsible for their emissions. He also calls for restrictions on airline emissions.
Such concerns will be reinforced by the BMed ghost flights. Each 140-mile flight produces 5.21 tons of carbon dioxide.
Over the five months, the 12 flights a week will have sent as much CO2 into the atmosphere as 36,000 cars streaming along the M4 motorway. It is equivalent to the annual CO2 output of a town of 2,000 people.
By the end of this month the flights will also have cost BMed at least £2m. There is a £2,500 fuel bill for each flight, plus £300,000 a month for the lease, insurance, crew and maintenance charges.
Graham Thompson of Plane Stupid, a campaign group, said: “It’s quite shocking. These ghost flights very much undermine the greenwash we get from the airlines on how they are going to protect the environment. This shows that they are willing to sacrifice the climate for a profit.”
The flights reveal the lengths to which airlines will go to hang on to runway slots. All of Heathrow’s daily 1,250 time slots — except for a few late at night — are allocated to particular airlines and are jealously guarded. BA has 40% of the slots at Heathrow. There is also an active trade in the runway positions, with some carriers prepared to buy their way in.
While the trades are rarely made public, three years ago Qantas, the Australian airline, paid £20m for just two return flights a day.
Airlines must use their allocation or have the slot withdrawn. If a slot is not used 80% of the time over a six-month season, it is handed back to an independent coordinating body that allocates runway times.
BMed has just eight aircraft and flies as a BA franchise to destinations such as Tehran, Beirut, Yerevan in Armenia, Baku in Azerbaijan and Tbilisi in Georgia — a list that has led some to describe it as “BA with balls”.
It came up with the Cardiff plan after it was forced to scrap flights to Tashkent, the capital of Uzbekistan, at the end of October after civil unrest there.
There is no passenger service between Heathrow and Cardiff. Industry experts claimed that the costs of launching a new service for five months would have been prohibitive. However, selling tickets at £100 a journey could have brought BMed as much as £12,400 revenue for each flight.
Last Friday night’s arrival was the last of the day at Cardiff and the two pilots walked through a deserted airport before going to their hotel to rest before yesterday’s return flight.
Green campaigners believe that airlines such as BMed should be fined for their blatant disregard of environmental concerns. Many airlines, including BA, offer to offset each passenger’s share of a flight’s carbon emissions in return for an extra fee.
Tony Juniper, vice-chairman of Friends of the Earth International, said: “It’s nuts. The government should take immediate steps to stop the practice. Clearly if a plane is full it can claim to be energy efficient, but flying empty planes is madness.”
He said that the government should introduce a new system to “fine” airlines that fly empty planes. There would be no charge for full aircraft but the levy would increase as the passenger list diminished.
David Richardson, BMed’s chief executive, said the company had examined several options for retaining the slots, including leasing them to another airline or operating ghost flights with a smaller aircraft.
“The Uzbek market had really collapsed, but we knew we would want to use those timings again this summer. It wasn’t the ideal thing to do, but we wanted to keep hold of it,” he said.
“It is possible to do it more cheaply than we have done — in theory. Our difficulty was that with the timings we had we needed an airport that was open all night. We looked at the alternatives, including Manston [in Kent], and Cardiff was the best option.”
Richardson said that BMed had decided to use a full-size airliner on the flight, rather than a smaller plane, so as not to slow down other arriving aircraft.
“You could use any type of plane, but the airport gets a little upset with you if you use a little Piper Warrior, say. We did not want to get on the wrong side of the airport on that, so we used the Airbus,” he said.
At the time BMed was eager to retain the valuable slots because it was seeking either fresh investment or a buyer. The airline was founded in 1994 under the chairmanship of Lord Hesketh, the Conservative peer.
Guernoy, a Guernsey-registered investment group which is controlled by the trust settlements of three members of the family of Said, the benefactor of the Said Business School at Oxford University, owned a 49% stake in BMed.
Last month BMI British Midland, the British airline group chaired by Sir Michael Bishop, announced that it had struck a deal to buy BMed for £30m. It will continue flying as a BA franchise until October.
BMI is the second largest slot holder at Heathrow, with 12% of the total. The London airport’s runways may be about to become even more valuable with the prospect of an open skies deal between Europe and America.
If this deal goes through — it is to be decided at a meeting of European transport ministers on March 22 — large American airlines that are currently barred from Heathrow are expected to buy their way in, pushing the prices of runway slots even higher. |
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