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Aseem Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ
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Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: VT-AIM (Sunderbans) |
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Speigel-Online wrote: |
Verfluchter flight AI 136
By Andreas Spaeth
29 hours of delay, problems with passenger lists, dubious luggage on board: The chaos around a air India jumbo jet to Frankfurt airport wakes doubts about aviation security - also on Lufthansa co-operation flights.
The Steigenberger air haven hotel to Frankfurt airport does not need to at present make itself around its extent of utilization concerns: For Sunday here night for night passengers stranded find accomodation. Not some stragglers, that missed their flight, but hundreds genervte traveler. They all are damages of the air India: Fog in Delhi, a damaged airplane, safety breakdowns - for the national Indian airline it comes to time club-thickly. And the chaos was not from short duration: For the day before yesterday flight AI 137 to of Los Angeles main headers only last night against 19 o'clock, planned at 14 o'clock, off. With not less than 29 hours of delay.
The day before yesterday for Sunday the actually planned flight was first started with 21 hours delay after Delhi under the number AI 136 - after the takeoff it returned nevertheless briefly to Frankfurt. “For the today's lot fishing rod it flight the same airplane is intended, which had yesterday problems”, meant it yesterday with air India. “We do not have Ersatzmaschinen.” And one grants smallloud: “After such delays it can take one week, to the flight plan is again kept.”
Reason for the forced return was a striking safety gap the day before yesterday during the dispatching to Frankfurt airport. The history of this incident reads itself like the film script for a Tragikomödie.
“We look for urgently two German passengers”
After the jumbo jet was finally ready for launch jet at noon, the cab personnel noticed a problem: Two transit guests made of of Los Angeles of coming flight had originally disappeared without trace - although their luggage had been already loaded into the machine. Clear case: So the 16 years old jet was not allowed to start. That regulates an European Union safety regulation from the year 2002 obligatorily on all flights from the community of states.
It took a further half hour, until the suit-cases of the customers not appeared were again stowed away unloaded and the containers. At 13.10 o'clock, scarcely 21 hours after the intended time of departure, main header the machine off. Straight ones had back-leaned the passengers brought in their seats and announced themselves nearly the first hour flying time behind itself, there the crew by announcement: “We look for urgently two German passengers.” It announced the names of the missed ones subsequently.
What had happened?
It had noticed to the crew that the places of the two aircraft passengers, who would have had to be according to passenger list on board, on the upper deck were empty. Then the Gegencheck: The ground personnel in Frankfurt insisted with the radio demand on the fact that the two persons were in any case on board. But were not there they. Only their suit-cases. Those were definite according to luggage list in the cargo. A striking safety gap. And on one day, on which with a notice on an express train in India nearly 70 humans were killed. Everything could have been in the suit-cases - also a bomb.
“On this airplane lies a curse”
The pilot reacted promptly: In 12,000 meters flight altitude, somewhere over Hungary, he informed the passengers: “We must turn around and fly back to Frankfurt.” First it had to discharge however approximately 80 tons kerosene, because the machine would have been otherwise too heavy for the premature landing.
Against 16.50 o'clock floated the jumbo jet with the Indian name “Sunderbans” (“beauty”) again in Frankfurt in. On board a nearly solved atmosphere, the bundled chaos prevailed welded the passengers together on the return flight. “On this airplane a curse” lies, announced the cab boss into the round of the standing around passengers in the upper deck. “The crews pray each mark, before them with “the beauty” fly that again any disorder does not develop.” Then he hurried to insure itself that it does not give safety problems with this jumbo jet.
Air India does not have to deplore since a bomb attack in the year 1985 an accident with dead ones, the last incident actually happened in January 1999 on Frankfurt airport, when a air India jumbo jet tore with an approach flight failed due to pilot errors 22 lamps of the approach light with itself and according to expert opinion only scarcely from a disaster escaped.
But also the incident the day before yesterday raises serious questions: “Why did it give no definite alignment between alleged and actually to passengers entered? ”, Tim asks cubes, Lufthansa flight captain and president of the pilot combination cockpit, in the discussion with MIRROR ON-LINE ONE. “And as the airport operator could accept Fraport as Abfertiger the fact that the people on board were if that at all like that were not?” Cube goes to a serious from an individual case out however: “I did not experience so a false tuning between luggage and passengers yet. As a pilot one must insist consistently on an alignment.”
With the airport operator and air India Abfertiger Fraport one refers to the automatism developed particularly for Frankfurt, which is to actually prevent such cases. “If it discrepancies gives there, finds automatically out that the computer”, said Fraport speakers to Wolfgang Schwalm to MIRROR ON-LINE ONE. “However if the inputs are chaotic in the system, become it with difficulty. One must be able oneself to leave on the inputs.” Air India in Frankfurt explained on demand that Fraport had already apologized for the error and for the costs of the flight reversal with an amount of euro- of five figures will be responsible.
Even if it concerned an individual case: Passengers of air India know that they may expect no “sky palace” more with the once leading airline nowadays. Instead air India in all classes offers favourable prices and an acceptable service - with moderate comfort in betagten airplanes. The level is obviously also solidly enough for Lufthansa, that sells sharing of places under own flight number in the so-called code on board air India flights - and concomitantly by the current safety problem is indirectly affected.
For the first time for 20 years air India receives at present new jets, which are inserted however at the earliest starting from July into Frankfurt. Still however air recruits India in the style of the glorious old times with the Slogan “Your Palace into the Sky” as well as a Maharadscha as Maskottchen, which are airplanes in the style of a palace painted.
Those passengers, at the beginning of this week with the Indian from Frankfurt to Delhi or Los Angeles to fly wanted to now convince themselves, could of it, what can mean flies “in the style of a palace” - more than them was dear: Flight AI 136 should have already started flying time in the Sunday afternoon at 16.25 o'clock in Frankfurt after Delhi, seven hours. But already the day before it became clear that it would not come to it. In February notoriously more closely smog and fog prevail in Delhi, therefore the starts at the perfectly overloaded Indira Gandhi retard internationally air haven often around several hours. Of it air India, which maintains a majority of the international takeoffs of its spider in Delhi, is particularly concerned. Thus the entire circulation of the flight AI 137 of Delhi over Frankfurt began to Los Angeles on past Saturday already with approximately four-hour delay.
The chaos took its run
The same picture on Sunday: Flight AI 136 should instead of to afternoon only at 22.40 o'clock return journey after Delhi to start, which aircraft passengers, who eincheckten by the majority punctually, because they had been informed not first, became in daily rooms in the Steigenberger hotel at the airport accommodated and board.
In the evening against 23 o'clock then the next Hiobsbotschaft for the passengers waiting at the gate: The machine finally arrived was broken and could not fly on. In a slat flap a large dent, it prangte had by Lufthansa technicians to be exchanged. The necessary spare part had to be delivered over night from Hamburg. Expected delay: At least further twelve hours. The chaos took its run. Simply back all guests in the hotel back to bring, where one is prepared in such cases, it did not go also: Many the mostly indischstämmigen transit travelers from Los Angeles did not have a visa for Germany.
It lasted to clock at night, until the airline had procured the necessary transit visas. Then the passengers were driven back into the hotel - around further to wait. Until they were brought back to the airport. |
rgds
VT-ASJ _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri]
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deaphen Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 933 Location: India
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:32 am Post subject: |
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horrible this to go thru.. but what the hell is up with the language used by this dude?its horrendus |
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Aseem Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: |
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deaphen wrote: | horrible this to go thru.. but what the hell is up with the language used by this dude?its horrendus |
orginally an article in German, translated using Google. _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri]
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Birendra Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1411
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Is VT-AIM really cursed |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Theres no such thing as Jinxed or Cursed.Although VT-AIM has been in the Media glare for quite some time now.
Apart from the MLG Incidents.What were the other serious Major Snag if there were any.
regds
MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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D-ABTH Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 837 Location: VABB :: BOM
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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i agree with Mel... if its the people who are stupid and their callous attitude.. you cant blame the aircraft can you?? _________________ If it aint Boeing.. I aint going. |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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When IC recieved its A319 series VT-SCA and SCB had some serious technical problems in the start ... now will that be called as jinxed? Its probably some difficult snag thats occured and even Boeing might not have been able to figure it out but just try and fix it in a rather temporary way and the problem again persists after some time. Also yes as Hawk says media is also exaggerating the matter _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like more of the same from AI. Nothing to be surprised of really.
My good friend was left behind in the gate area in BLR and the IC flight took off with his luggage and without him. No boarding announcements made, no attempts made to locate him (he was right there in the gate area), only a few apologies about not making even a page and a promise to re-route his luggage back to MAA (where it did make it the next morning).
Isn't it illegal to take off with baggage, but without the passenger? If that's the case, IC was as much in guilt in BLR, as AI in FRA.
Now before AI/IC fans go on and on, I've never heard of this happening on 9W or other private airlines, but have heard of it on IC. So I'm posting an opinion based on my observations. |
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himmat01 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1392 Location: DEL
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I had an incident like this at SJC. I had a booking for an early morning CO flight on sector SJC-MCO with a stop over and change of aircraft at IAH.
I checked in, received my boarding card but was not allowed to board because CO changed the a/c at the last moment from B734 to MD-90. They did not unload my baggage and I was booked on a Delta flight leaving from SFO in evening.
This change ruined my holiday at Orlando as I lost one complete day. What surprises me is that if I was not allowed to board, why was my checked in baggage carried on that flight. _________________ Save Maharashtra! |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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himmat01 wrote: | What surprises me is that if I was not allowed to board, why was my checked in baggage carried on that flight. |
Thats serious.
No Pax No Bag on Board.Is the norm.
regds
MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | My good friend was left behind in the gate area in BLR and the IC flight took off with his luggage and without him. No boarding announcements made, no attempts made to locate him (he was right there in the gate area), only a few apologies about not making even a page and a promise to re-route his luggage back to MAA (where it did make it the next morning). |
You mean no boarding announcements were made? _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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the_380 wrote: |
You mean no boarding announcements were made? |
Nope |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: |
Nope |
Then how did the other passengers board then? _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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the_380 wrote: | Then how did the other passengers board then? |
It seems the other passengers were already waiting at the gate, and the queue was already formed, and hence they boarded without an announcement.
Getting back to the point - is IC allowed to take off with a passengers baggage but without the passenger? |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | It seems the other passengers were already waiting at the gate, and the queue was already formed, and hence they boarded without an announcement. |
Common Nimish, then how did the other passengers form a queue??? Its not a ST bus stop they form a queue as and when they feel like! There definately must have been some announcement its PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE that there were no announcements!!!!!!!!
Yes, I admit the airline was also at fault that they didn't ensure all the passengers present on-board. But equally responsible is your friend who did not pay attention to the boarding announcement _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:12 am Post subject: |
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I'd Agree with Avi.Looks very unlikely that a Que would have been formed without an announcement.Probably your friend did not hear it.Sometimes if one is busy it can happen.
However the Issue of No Pax No Bag on board is serious & of concern.
regds
MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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the_380 wrote: | There definately must have been some announcement its PRACTICALLY IMPOSSIBLE that there were no announcements!!!!!!!!
Yes, I admit the airline was also at fault that they didn't ensure all the passengers present on-board. But equally responsible is your friend who did not pay attention to the boarding announcement |
Dude - now it's you who is not listening - there was no boarding announcement. Let me repeat a bit slowly - T h e r e w a s n o b o a r d i n g a n n o u n c e m e n t.
Is that clear? The IC ground staff acknowledged that there was no boarding announcement.
You've obviously not being paying attention when you fly, because the queue for boarding often forms before the boarding announcement. So your statement that "it's not a ST bus stop they form a queue as and when they feel like" is quite untrue. |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | Dude - now it's you who is not listening - there was no boarding announcement. Let me repeat a bit slowly - T h e r e w a s n o b o a r d i n g a n n o u n c e m e n t.
Is that clear? The IC ground staff acknowledged that there was no boarding announcement.
You've obviously not being paying attention when you fly, because the queue for boarding often forms before the boarding announcement. So your statement that "it's not a ST bus stop they form a queue as and when they feel like" is quite untrue. |
T H A T I S I M P O S S I B L E. No boarding announcements are practically impossible. There is a check-in time at the ticket counter. If he checked in at the right itime then he is bound to enter the security check at the correct time. If he has entered the security check at the right time then there HAS to be an announcement made.
Passengers cannot stand and make queues as and when they feel like and when they spot a plane they cannot compel the airline authorities 'woh plane ko mumbai jane bolo' _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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the_380 wrote: | T H A T I S I M P O S S I B L E. No boarding announcements are practically impossible. |
Do I detect inconsistency right here? Either it's "I M P O S S I B L E" or "practically impossible", which one are you claiming?
Of course your claims have nothing to do with the reality from that evening, but that's another matter altogether. |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | Do I detect inconsistency right here? Either it's "I M P O S S I B L E" or "practically impossible", which one are you claiming?
Of course your claims have nothing to do with the reality from that evening, but that's another matter altogether |
If no announcements were made as you claim then i guess a few more passengers must have missed their flights? If no then why was ur friend the only one? And a flight taking off without an announcement is a BIG thing...so why no media article on that -'Indian Airlines Flight Takes Off without announcement' ... or is there any? Link please _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld
A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! |
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Nimish Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Nimish wrote: | Do I detect inconsistency right here? Either it's "I M P O S S I B L E" or "practically impossible", which one are you claiming?
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380 - I've not seen your answer to this question... |
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Birendra Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1411
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Since i notice that people are getting awry and very much off the topic, may i request to revert back to Sunderbans
D-ABTH wrote: | i agree with Mel... if its the people who are stupid and their callous attitude.. you cant blame the aircraft can you?? |
Are we suggesting to say that the people who were repairing the a/c did not do a good job or were just to easy about it |
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iflytb20 Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2007 Posts: 1079 Location: Next to the Airport
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Birendra wrote: | Since i notice that people are getting awry and very much off the topic, may i request to revert back to Sunderbans |
good idea
Quote: | Are we suggesting to say that the people who were repairing the a/c did not do a good job or were just to easy about it |
well you cant blame the AMEs for that....with all the boom thing happening, everyone is being overstreched. And regarding the problems...well each acft is different..its like each acft has a personality of its own. Now its well known only old and brand new acfts have problems. New acfts...well its teething probs...things settle down after a while. We have the same problem in our company every time a new acft arrives. From Engine Failure to Flap Assymetry, we had every thing. But after the acfts fly for a while, things settle down.
Same with the old airplane..they have teeth related problems too..but the only diff..its the lack of teeth which create the problem
Now some acfts keep on having the same fault due to some reason or the other...and it happens all over the world...im sure MEL agrees. I feel sundarbans has the same problem. I can say that coz we have an acft in our fleet which has had a recurrent fault almost always in the same system. That does not mean the acft is not being maintained...they replaced the entire unit with a new one...but the problem persisted. And this is not a once in a blue moon thing. Happens all over the world.
The only difference with the sundarbans case is the half-informed full-retarded media. . Keep them away and this "Haunted Aircraft" case would soon be forgotten.
PS: Apologies for the really long post...net was down for a week almost
so me trying to make up for lost time |
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D-ABTH Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 837 Location: VABB :: BOM
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Birendra wrote: | Since i notice that people are getting awry and very much off the topic, may i request to revert back to Sunderbans
D-ABTH wrote: | i agree with Mel... if its the people who are stupid and their callous attitude.. you cant blame the aircraft can you?? |
Are we suggesting to say that the people who were repairing the a/c did not do a good job or were just to easy about it |
talk about off topic.... what has this topic got to do with repairs??
i think we all here are speaking with reference to the FRA incident?? or if you mean the past history of this aircraft.. well i have my opinions on that too.. but this is not the thread for it. _________________ If it aint Boeing.. I aint going. |
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Birendra Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 1411
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Thanks iflytb20 for helping me clear some air. |
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HAWK21M Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Birendra wrote: | Since i notice that people are getting awry and very much off the topic, may i request to revert back to Sunderbans
D-ABTH wrote: | i agree with Mel... if its the people who are stupid and their callous attitude.. you cant blame the aircraft can you?? |
Are we suggesting to say that the people who were repairing the a/c did not do a good job or were just to easy about it |
Is this about Flt ops personnell
regds
MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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the_380 Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India
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