| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PAL@YWG
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 438
Location: YWG, Canada
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:06 pm Post subject: Russia to Spend $4.6Bln on New MS-21 Passenger Airliner |
 |
|
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-to-spend-46bln-on-new-ms-21-passenger-airliner/494560.html
| Quote: | SINGAPORE — Russia will spend 164 billion rubles ($4.6 billion) to develop and produce its MS-21 medium-range passenger aircraft, a government official said Thursday.
The MS-21, currently in development, is designed to carry between 150 and 212 passengers and is expected to make its maiden flight in 2015 with first deliveries due in 2017.
"The cost of the whole project is 164 billion rubles, which comprises an equal share of state funds and private investments," said Andrei Boginsky, who heads the aviation construction department at the Ministry of Industry and Trade.
Boginsky said the budget includes expenditure on R&D work, procurement of components and production of the aircraft.
The MS-21 is intended to replace all models of the outdated Tu-154 and Tu-134 aircraft, as well as the Yak-42 in Russia.
The plane will be produced in three versions — MS-21-200, which carries 150 passengers, MS-21-300, with a capacity of 180 passengers, and MS-21-400, which can hold 212 passengers.
It will be Russia's first plane with components made of carbon fiber. The new technology can save 25 percent in fuel and 15 percent in maintenance costs, as well as reduce harm to the environment, according to the designers.
|
Good to see that Russia is getting back in the business of aircraft manufacturing.
If Interjet (4O) stats are to be believed, SSJ100 is gaining ground. With MS-21, Russia will cover anything between 85 and 200+ passenger capacity with these two aircraft types.
Now, Russia go back to design board and come up with a superior version of IL96 
_________________
Tally Sheet:
41 Countries ||55 Aircraft types ||60 Airlines ||75 Airports |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sumantra
Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mr. Pal, as a person who has seen the different eras of the Soviet Union and after, you would be in a position to judge and estimate, Russia/Ukraine's ability to mass-produce aircraft in this current economic scenario. From the relative safety of my armchair, first, neither has the captive market of Warsaw Pact nations. They have the design ability, but will they be able to back it up with efficient mass-production? The companies have had some limited success in the defence field, but not too many new designs are forthcoming at a time when even the Western bureaus are facing financial crunches. The Tu-204/214 series, the Il-14, the An-148/158: the `recent' ones have not met with any success whatsoever. The perception in the former Soviet block countries is to prefer Western aircraft. In the narrowbody market, Boeing and Airbus rule, and the lower one, Embraer and Bombardier. It today's climate, it looks very difficult for anyone else to even think of entering.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAL@YWG
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 438
Location: YWG, Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| sumantra wrote: | Mr. Pal, as a person who has seen the different eras of the Soviet Union and after, you would be in a position to judge and estimate, Russia/Ukraine's ability to mass-produce aircraft in this current economic scenario. From the relative safety of my armchair, first, neither has the captive market of Warsaw Pact nations. They have the design ability, but will they be able to back it up with efficient mass-production? The companies have had some limited success in the defence field, but not too many new designs are forthcoming at a time when even the Western bureaus are facing financial crunches. The Tu-204/214 series, the Il-14, the An-148/158: the `recent' ones have not met with any success whatsoever. The perception in the former Soviet block countries is to prefer Western aircraft. In the narrowbody market, Boeing and Airbus rule, and the lower one, Embraer and Bombardier. It today's climate, it looks very difficult for anyone else to even think of entering.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
Sumantra, I am not day dreaming about Russian-built planes flying all over the world ten years from now  . Most probably that will not never happen. I will be more than happy to see all these IL-14/62/86, Tu-134/54/204, Yak-40/42 and other assorted soviet built planes that currently litter various airports in former soviet block countries and give a bad name to Russian civil aviation industry, and get replaced by the new generation planes like SSJ-100 & MS-21. It's about time.
As far as who will buy them, it will be mostly Russian/CIS airlines and a few odd airlines here and there. But again, if you build a technologically advanced product and market it at an attractive price and support your customers with proper after-sales service, the product irrespective of where it is built, over a period of time will get noticed. Embraer is an example.
10-15 years back no one heard Kia or Hyundai's name in Canada. Today, I see them more often on my way to work. Now take this. Mahindra Tractors from India is running a TV ad campaign here introducing their farm equipment in Canada. Today no one knows them but who knows they might grab some market share in near future.
Today's airlines have one thing in common; all of them suffer from shortage of cash (with few exceptions of course). If you have a product that is substantially cheaper but comparable to Embraer or bombardier's KPI's, then you have a chance It will not happen overnight, consistency is the key word here 
_________________
Tally Sheet:
41 Countries ||55 Aircraft types ||60 Airlines ||75 Airports |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The_Goat
Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3260
Location: South of France
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
The problem with Russian airplanes has always been with the gas guzzling engines. Unless they get into collaborations with Western engine manufacturers to design power plants for their air frames, they will not be able to capture any market share. This is also important , as generally, the Russian airframe designs are not compatible with Western engine designs, like the RB-211 powered TU-204s bear witness.
Russian air frames are probably the toughest, having been built to withstand extreme weather and bad runways. However, even airframe design has been undergoing a paradigm shift the World over, with more and more composites being used. I doubt the Russians have made much progress in keeping up with these new trends.
And safety and quality standards in aviation are far more stringent than for automobiles. You can sell cheaper cars and tractors from developing countries even in the West, with some added safety features incorporated into them. It is never going to be like this for airplanes.
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PAL@YWG
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 438
Location: YWG, Canada
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The_Goat wrote: | | The problem with Russian airplanes has always been with the gas guzzling engines. Unless they get into collaborations with Western engine manufacturers to design power plants for their air frames, they will not be able to capture any market share. This is also important , as generally, the Russian airframe designs are not compatible with Western engine designs, like the RB-211 powered TU-204s bear witness. |
Without Kuznetsovs, Solovievs what is left there to call an aeroplane, Russian built ? Having said that SSJ's power plant is not 100% Russian as some other components SSJ currently uses.
| Quote: | | Russian air frames are probably the toughest, having been built to withstand extreme weather and bad runways. However, even airframe design has been undergoing a paradigm shift the World over, with more and more composites being used. I doubt the Russians have made much progress in keeping up with these new trends. |
I think MS-21 is talking about using carbon fiber. But you are right, the Russian airframes are sturdy as it can be. I never bothered about getting hurt while landing in siberian airports in the middle of the winter I had faith that the tube will remain intact
| Quote: | | And safety and quality standards in aviation are far more stringent than for automobiles. You can sell cheaper cars and tractors from developing countries even in the West, with some added safety features incorporated into them. It is never going to be like this for airplanes. |
Agreed.
_________________
Tally Sheet:
41 Countries ||55 Aircraft types ||60 Airlines ||75 Airports |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iah87
Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 2566
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
Russia has SSJ which is proving to be a sturdy and reasonably fuel efficient, atleast to rival 737 and 320. Even if the fuel consumption is slightly higher, the planes are cheaper (or are cheaper to lease), so for short flights, it could be an ideal aircraft.
However, apart from SSJ, they will have a hard part in getting to market the new aircraft. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spiderguy252
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4259
Location: Indian Ocean
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Russia has inherited the Soviet legacy of diluting quality in their products, in the face of their Western competitors. Unless they can sort this fundamental issue out, they won't get far, let alone in the aviation sector.
Going a little above the skies, the space station Mir (versus the ISS of today) is a pertinent example of Soviet/Russian inefficiency when nothing less than pristine standards and framework are expected.
_________________
Yeah. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
