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andrew · Member Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 212

A few months ago the Thai Airways Country Manager for India was qouted in the press as saying Thai/ TG was investigating a few new flights to India including a direct BKK- PNQ service. Does any have an update on this?

D-ABTH · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:

hmm PNQ is looking good i must say, and not just for TG Smile

you can thank the corporates for that.
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COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

a group of us regular users of PNQ had a casual chat with the airport manager and duty manager about the rickshaw/taxi situation sometime back, and we had a casual chat about the international airliens as well.

According to him only LH and UL have been given the clearance from the MoD and MoCA to operate to Pune as of now. LH was given the clearnace mainly becoz Pune desperately needs a direct cargo connection to Europe, especially AMS. There is huge demand for transport of perishables like Mushrooms and "Cut flowers" to Amsterdam, which currently goes via BOM or DEL. Needless to say I think LH can make a killin on the pax as well considering the number of German auto majors and anciallry companies operating here. But LH cant begin since widebodies cant really operate other than perhaps a range restricted A310/AB3. UL can however begin and I think they will be the first intl airline to operate here.

I remember seeing SQ ads for Pune sometime back but I think SilkAir has been blocked for now. Protectionist move IMO.
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avbuff · Member Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031

Should see some international movements beginning winter 07

iam pretty sure UL would be the first foreign carrier here

D-ABTH · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:00 am Post subject:

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

@D-ABTH- Doubt it. AI operated an A310 here briefly for their DXB flight but quickly switched to the AIX 737-800's. Maybe more due to loads.

However IC once operated an AB3 to PNQ way back in the late 80's early 90's: a time when the sole evening 737-200 flight on the route used to have 50/60 waitlisted tickets! If i remember the news article correctly: It made a spectacular landing at PNQ "punching a hole in the runway" as it landed! Needless to say the experiment wasnt repeated!

I think a bigger issue is the ability of Widebodies to turn in the narrow apron space at PNQ.
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malQ · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject:

Cougar, appreciate info on, please:-

a) What happened on the rickshaw/taxi front please? Current monopoly by the small group of cabbies/auto drivers is mind-boggling.

b) On wide-bodies, and heavies, I am sure you are aware of what are the various 4-engined jets that land on the same runway but are parked on the other side . . .

c) Have you seen the fares being achieved on DEL-PNQ and v/v lately, and when do you think we will return to glory days of 2-3k total, especially for weekend travel?

Thanks / / /

Nimish · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject:

So can someone remind me - what are the problems with expanding PNQ? And why isn't the industry in PNQ creating a ruckus about it (the way the industry in BLR did for about 10 years before the project finally got approval)?

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

victor2alpha · Member Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 120

Loads of BOM > PNQ > BOM are heavy I presume? Who all do it? Jet does with their 737 twice a day I think, SG and DN too right? IT does it? Question

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Nimish · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Thai Airways to Pune

malQ · Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:38 pm Post subject:

To my knowledge, it is only 9W/Jet Airways on BOM-PNQ-BOM twice a day, mornings and evenings. Air India does a flight on some days of the week as part of its flight to Dubai, it is not very consistent on timings and rotation. Sometimes it is BOM-PNQ-DXB-PNQ-BOM and sometimes it is BOM-PNQ-BOM-DXB-BOM-PNQ-BOM. Loads are good to BOM as are loads on flights from PNQ to DEL.

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

AIX's BOM-PNQ flights are popular for a simple reason: they are the cheapest way to fly on the route: just 995 bucks slightly more than the 600 bucks we pay for an airport drop taxi. And we reach in 10 minutes to the terminal! Many pax are actually headed out to other intl destinations!
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HAWK21M · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject:

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

Earlier the PNQ-BOM was at 2300/2330 types with incoming aircraft from DXB while BOM-PNQ was at 1230 or so. This was when it was doing BOM-PNQ-DXB-PNQ-BOM.

Now i believe it does BOM-PNQ-BOM-DXB-BOM-PNQ-BOM: so an extra leg in the noon. This is allegedly because the 737-800 cannot fly non-stop from PNQ-DXB in the summers! Well one of the reasons the AI mgmt touted when chooisng the 738 over the A320 was its superior range! The A320 can do this 03:00 hour segment alright!
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iflytb20 · Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject:

malQ · Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:02 am Post subject:

Also, I think Air India must have figured out that BOM-PNQ-BOM is a very profitable route, so why waste a precious Pune slot? That, as well as the extra fuel all the way to Dubai, and you have a viable proposition.

Now if only Air India or anybody else would bring in fresh capacity of PNQ-DEL-PNQ. Via anywhere. The levels are killing, weekend or weekdays, any time. Even the LCCs are touching 7-8 thousand.

avbuff · Member Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031

ssbmat · Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710

andrew · Member Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 212

AI used to operate an A310 to DXB when it first started – this was even before the taxiway and parking area at PNQ was expanded. The A/C type was changed to 737NGs once AIX was launched and the route handed over to AIX (737s being the standardised AIX fleet).

The parking space at PNQ is being considerably expanded at present and IAF Antonov transport aircraft landing sporadically at Lohegaon are ‘heavies’. I suspect therefore that an A330 sized aircraft can in fact be accommodated. The issue is more of the scheduled arrival / departure times as such a large sized A/C will consume parking space for two A320/737 type A/C and will also require more manoeuvring room, making peak time schedules at PNQ difficult. Loads are perhaps questionable ex-Pune to international destinations.

For a long time (past 20 years) the real issue for commercial expansion at PNQ was opposition from the IAF. I recall in the past the IAF objected to foreign carriers at an air force base. Further, they used to impose severe restrictions on commercial operators as airspace was closed from 10h00 to 16h00 local time for IAF exercises. Further, night operations were restricted beyond 22h00. I heard this has now changed, but if not, it definitely has an impact on foreign carriers operating direct.

I expect TG and UL would operate smaller aircraft – A320s(UL) or 737s (TG). However, no public comments have been made yet.

Is there a Cargo facility at PNQ capable of servicing LH cargo operations? Also has there been any report in local press re the TG plans?

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

AI operated with an A310 only for a week or so. With the parking space expanded there will be space for a total of 10 aircraft simultaneously including 2 widebodies. The major issue right now is of manoevering space.

As for traffic: Pune has enough IT traffic flowing to ensure a steady loads for any serious carrier operating on a sustained basis. Apart from IT, Pune also has autombile and ancillary industries. Apart from passneger traffic there is a makret for freight which I think is LARGER than the potential for pax. Infact this was the original plan: the first international flight to Pune was supposed to be a KLM Cargo flight to AMS way back in the late 90's basically to cater to the market for prrocessed food and "cut flowers": which is suffering from the effects of the lack of a driect service. A cargo unit capable of supporting Cold-Storage items was built at the time (and still is operational on the right side of the terminal when facing the apron). Dunno if KLM actually operated that cargo service or not. Then again there was talk of extending a KLM flight to the MIddle-East to pune.

There certainly is a market for direct non-stop flights to Europe: in particular to FRA. Other stations with a ot of potential for traffic are NBO, BKK and SEL. The number of students from Kenya, Thailand and Korea studying in various colleges/institutes in Pune is enormous. The US bound IT traffic now trots it out to BOM (or now there is the AIX flight) and then takes a connection to US via FRA, SIN or a dozen outher places. So there is potenital for multiple dailies to FRA and SIN! Then ofcourse there is the freight traffic: which I personally think will outstrip the demand for pax services. All this traffic is now having to route via BOM or DEL. So there certainly is a lot of potential!

Whichever aircraft is bought in needs to have enough belly space for cargo!
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malQ · Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject:

While we await more international ops to/from PNQ, it seems there are some interesting "middle of the night" domestic flights coming along.

Spicejet, 3x weekly, DEL/PNQ 2235/0040 returning PNQ/DEL 0115/0320, this is not the existing "via Ahmedabad" flight, but a new direct non-stop. I am going to try it just to see if I can get a grip on who really uses such flights?

If you look at the advance fares, you observe that this middle of the night wonder seems to achieve close to the levels of the midle of the day flights. though not as high as the morning/evening turn-arounds.

So what's happening at PNQ, will we see some more smart operators jump into the space and slots available in the middle of the night?

+++

Cougar - one more thing - there are a large number of students and their families from points around and North of Delhi on DEL/PNQ flights. It is not just the IT, engineering and other industries. Just an observation - and they all don't seem averse to paying higher levels too . ..

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

egggzhajctly MalQ: yo uhave got it spot on!

There are 2 things driving the aviation boom in Pune: on eis the IT-automobile thing. but eqaully important, and often overlooked is the student community thing. Pune may no longer be deserving of the "Oxford of the East" status. but Symbiosis college (to name just one) still has students from 143 countries on its rolls today!

And the community of students from Delhi/Punjab and south is HUGE!
And many of them dont think twice about travelling by air: atleast Spice/Deccan/Indigo type airlines which are too "middle class" for the rest of us. THIS is what is driving the volumes.

If international traffic starts coming directly yo pune, a lot of the load will be taken off Mumbai IMO. AI/KQ/SQ etc can reduce frequencies from NBO/SIN to BOM and replace them with flights to PNQ!
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stealthpilot · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB

sammyk · Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 5:23 am Post subject:

andrew · Member Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 212

So when is the scheduled AIX direct service from PNQ to SIN going to start. Their webwite says March 23, but no bookings are being offered on line. I expect it has been delayed till new A/C arrive.

Apparently this is to be a direct service, twice weekly - which in addition to the IC flights should mean 5 weekly services to SIN from PNQ (unfortunately neither airlines really caters to real business travellers who throng this route).

COUGAR · Member Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 986 Location: Bangalore

[quote="stealthpilot
Don’t get too excited, if MAA and BLR don’t yet have multiple dailies to those cities, Pune has a long way to go.
Is there potential, in a couple of years yes! But not now- not multiple daily flights.[/quote]

FAR and SIN both see multiple dailies by various carriers from MAA and BLR.

Every night there are 1000's of people headed for Mumbai on Sahar taxis/buses which pick you up from Pune and drop u to the Mumbai airport. 90% of this traffic is headed for SIN and FRA on one of the 5/6 flights leaving aroudn that time. So dont underestimate the potential.
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the_380 · Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject:

Stealthpilot i think you do not have an exact idea of load factors from PNQ. I agree with the fact with Roy that there are a multiple bus services from PNQ which bring a lot of international bound passengers.
PNQ is one of the most important cities in India and according to most news channels the citiy's industries paid more taxes than any other city in India.
PNQ is famous for IT industries and any city with IT industries has a LOT of potential for international traffic.
While travelling in the BOM-PNQ Express Highway i have seen so many branded cars with foreigners...once a car was there with us right from the airport till the express highway ended Very Happy

and also it stopped at McDonals just before the express highway.
So hope that gives you a rough idea of intl crowd in PNQ.
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himmat01 · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1392 Location: DEL

Pune along with Pimpri-Chincwad has a potential for direct international flights. MoCA should invite private developers to develop one of the two abondoned airfields near Pune as an international airport.
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avbuff · Member Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031

@ cougar @the_380 @stealthpilot

i would also like to draw attention to 2 more strata of travellers

* Tourists from pune .... there is a huge group of travellers going on to various destinations ... although they are seasonal but it covers 7 - 8 months of the year

* Also a HUGE amount of senior citizens whose children stay in the US , Canada UK Australia et al ..... my grandfather's younger brother worls for an organisation called NRIPO NRI parents organisation

so collecticely speaking there is a huge potential to all major destinations like FRA , SIN DXB LHR BKK SYD