| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5031
|
 Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:51 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| con spirito wrote: | | Quote: |
Would you like to know what the facts are now, sir, and may I open your eyes? I spoke to a highly trustworthy source at AI just this morning and he made it absolutely clear that the Air India crew had been told by the airline that their flight was not to depart that day - as you could well imagine, the scheduling chaos with all the diversions meant nobody was quite sure when the flights would resume, so there was no fixed schedule for the AI crew to follow. On the basis of the assurance that their flight would not depart that day, some crew members left the hotel for sightseeing. Is that a crime?
|
Well if thats true Mr. Jeh, then I thank you for letting us know as to what actually happened. And im damn sure, even if the media gets hold of what happened they would never print this article. |
See we all know how the media goofs up facts, and this article isn't any good either. If one logically re constructs the events here is something you may want to ponder over.
*The aircraft was to operate BOM - CAI - YYZ ... was FRA involved? I don't think so.
* There was a communication gap at all levels ... the ground staff crew .. language barrier and so on.
* however the Air India crew should have realised this isn't their regular layover in Cairo and situations were changing every hour. The crew should have had the judgement to stay at the hotel in case they were needed at any other time. Besides, however "highly" placed a source is, unless he/she is your friends/relative no one is going to tell oh yaar we F**ked up and was our fault.
* Lastly when Air India themselves are saying action will be taken is a good reason to believe that what is stated in the article is true. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
747-237
Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 11360
Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 747-237 wrote: | | Air India's latest 777-300ER, VT-ALS "Mizoram" is being prepared for delivery at KPAE. |
VT-ALS "Mizoram" was delivered to Air India on April 30, 2010; 7 months to the date since their last delivery (VT-ALR "Meghalaya", delivered Sep 30, 2009).
_________________
11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeh
Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 669
Location: Delhi, India
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| avbuff wrote: |
See we all know how the media goofs up facts, and this article isn't any good either. If one logically re constructs the events here is something you may want to ponder over.
*The aircraft was to operate BOM - CAI - YYZ ... was FRA involved? I don't think so.
* There was a communication gap at all levels ... the ground staff crew .. language barrier and so on.
* however the Air India crew should have realised this isn't their regular layover in Cairo and situations were changing every hour. The crew should have had the judgement to stay at the hotel in case they were needed at any other time. Besides, however "highly" placed a source is, unless he/she is your friends/relative no one is going to tell oh yaar we F**ked up and was our fault.
* Lastly when Air India themselves are saying action will be taken is a good reason to believe that what is stated in the article is true. |
But avbuff one doesn't know where the aircraft was coming from. It's entirely possible that this particular aircraft was in fact coming in directly on a ferry flight from Europe or something far-fetched, I'll ask my source and tell you if you like.
I agree with you that, in hindsight, they could have shown a little judgment at a time of such complete chaos. But you must understand, avbuff, the crew asked the AI station manager - i.e. AI's top guy at CAI (actually this guy was the Jeddah station manager who was flown in to handle CAI for the week of rerouted flights) - and he categorically assured them the flight was not going that day! I suppose they trusted him.
As for what Air India themselves are saying, well, look at this way, the station manager bloke is never going to say "sorry lads I %$#@ed up" (as you said so yourself). He'd probably have covered his #@@ and said he never told the crew anything of the sort. And management-crew relations aren't exactly at an all-time high these days. Plus the spokesman only said "we'll look into the matter and take action against the crew", but that does not mean the crew have conclusively been proven guilty yet.
Which brings me back to my original point - however lazy and stupid you were as a crewmember, why on earth would you leave the hotel for a sightseeing trip if you knew your flight was about to leave soon? Surely the crew were told something else, and hence they did what they did! Come on guys, this is pretty simple logic! The crew are not at fault! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeh
Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 669
Location: Delhi, India
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aseem wrote: | | sincere request to Jeh and Me111993 to keep cool. both of you's post has been deleted to avoid flame-bait. |
My apologies, Aseem, I must have gone overboard. Happens in the heat of the argument! 
But it's still sad to see a post deleted, I do take a certain effort to think up a line of argument and write something in my spare time away from work, and to see it just deleted with one click is a little disheartening  Still, I accept, I was at fault. Apologies.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
avbuff
Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5031
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeh wrote: | | But avbuff one doesn't know where the aircraft was coming from. It's entirely possible that this particular aircraft was in fact coming in directly on a ferry flight from Europe or something far-fetched, I'll ask my source and tell you if you like. |
I think AI had made those interim timetables clear.
| Jeh wrote: |
I agree with you that, in hindsight, they could have shown a little judgment at a time of such complete chaos. But you must understand, avbuff, the crew asked the AI station manager - i.e. AI's top guy at CAI (actually this guy was the Jeddah station manager who was flown in to handle CAI for the week of rerouted flights) - and he categorically assured them the flight was not going that day! I suppose they trusted him. |
See even if they asked the station manager, the disruption was natural and not many know how fast or how slow would the cloud have cleared. One of the very few things that Air India has is a set of EXPERIENCED crew, and under such situations one expected them to show that their signature Air India judgement (not being sarcastic).
Our opinions on this issue may differ, but I personally place this a higher priority than other reasons.
| Jeh wrote: |
As for what Air India themselves are saying, well, look at this way, the station manager bloke is never going to say "sorry lads I %$#@ed up" (as you said so yourself). He'd probably have covered his #@@ and said he never told the crew anything of the sort. And management-crew relations aren't exactly at an all-time high these days. Plus the spokesman only said "we'll look into the matter and take action against the crew", but that does not mean the crew have conclusively been proven guilty yet.
Which brings me back to my original point - however lazy and stupid you were as a crewmember, why on earth would you leave the hotel for a sightseeing trip if you knew your flight was about to leave soon? Surely the crew were told something else, and hence they did what they did! Come on guys, this is pretty simple logic! The crew are not at fault! |
I have never said that we unilaterally blame the crew. Air India should go for an internal investigation and hope the careless person is punished. the station manager may not be in a position to prove that the crew were lying. Even if it were the Station Manager's fault or a communication error from India itself; there will be a good percentage of blame on Air India's crew.
The primary reason for a crew layover is to have rest adhering to the duty limitations guidelines, and not sightseeing. If they happen to go somewhere and something comes up like this, the crew will have to bear the responsibility. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nimish
Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Jeh wrote: | | I do take a certain effort to think up a line of argument and write something in my spare time away from work, and to see it just deleted with one click is a little disheartening |
Jeh - nothing personal here, but none of us "works" on this forum. All posts here involve "taking time away from work".
_________________
We miss you Nalini! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeh
Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 669
Location: Delhi, India
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Nimish wrote: | | Jeh - nothing personal here, but none of us "works" on this forum. All posts here involve "taking time away from work". |
Arrey but I know that! When did I say I was the only one who types on the forum in his/her spare time?
All I was saying was that I put a lot of effort into making a readable post within limited time and it's sad to see 10 minutes of effort just deleted in a click!  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TKMCE
Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 957
|
| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Jeh
Coherent arguements are unfortunately incomprehensible to a few here!!!
Good luck  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sammyk
Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2719
Location: Austin, TX
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| TKMCE wrote: | Dear Jeh
Coherent arguements are unfortunately incomprehensible to a few here!!!
Good luck |
Actually it's the condescending attitude that is frowned upon. No need to use "beta", "kid", "child", etc. I'm sure the argument can be made without such an attitude.
Take yourself for example, you seem to make knowledgeable and informative posts without said attitude, why can't others? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
con spirito
Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Inflight
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Crew not responsible for Air India Mumbai-Toronto flight delay: AICCA
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report_crew-not-responsible-for-air-india-mumbai-toronto-flight-delay-aicca_1377875
| Quote: | Mumbai: All India Cabin Crew Association today claimed that its members were not responsible for the 16-hour delay of Air India Mumbai-Toronto flight on April 15 which was operated via Cairo.
"Cabin crew are being made hapless scapegoats for the administrative inefficiencies and callousness of all other agencies which handled these flight routes via Cairo," AICCA general secretary Sanjay Lazar said in a statement here.
Lazar alleged that Air India had scheduled two flights without any prior intimation or flight plan to and fro Cairo station to the cabin crew.
"None of the 54 cabin crew who were present in the hotel at Cairo were either called or intimated of any impending arrival or departure flight from Cairo to either India or the US," the statement said.
The Mumbai-Toronto flight with around 150 passengers on board was operated via Egypt's capital Cairo in view of the closure of European airspace due to volcanic eruption in Iceland.
A section of media had reported that the inordinate delay was due to its seven-member crew going out for sight-seeing in Cairo instead of reporting for duty on time.
"Some inordinate flight delays did occur due to crew not being available at the right time to operate the flights. In view of the above, Air India has already initiated action and is seeking explanation from some crew members in this regard," an Air India statement had said yesterday.
The association claimed that the crew which went for sight seeing was not even on call as no flight was scheduled.
"The AICCA demands immediate suspension of all other department staff/agencies involved in the operations," the statement said.
|
_________________
India is one of the richest countries in the world.
The only problem is........all the wealth is distributed in the wrong hands. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spiderguy252
Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4259
Location: Indian Ocean
|
| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Locked. Continued on Part 17.
_________________
Yeah. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
