Airliners-India.com Flickr Group & Facebook    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Answer To Recession: Dense Economy?          Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> Civil Aviation View previous topic :: View next topic   DO you agree in the Dense Economy Section?? YES  57%  [ 4 ] NO  42%  [ 3 ] Total Votes : 7 Author Message me111993 Member Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 3225 Location: MAA/AMD Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject: Answer To Recession: Dense Economy? Hello Everybody!!! While the economy was good, general public as well as airlines were making good money, airlines like VS and Air NewZealand tried to fill the gap between Economy and Business class. Now as the things are opposite, I think the airlines should also do the opposite... I know it sounds a little out there, but this eg will give you a clear idea of what I really want to say. 9W has 77W's serving their LHR routes. In a 1-way service they serve 3-meals, alcohol free, decent amenity kit, AVOD, 35in seat-pitch and 18in seat-width. 3-3-3 seating config. I say they convert the last section of the 77w into a dense economy class. In a 1-way service provide with 1 hot meal and 1 cold meal, charge for alcohol(which most airlines do anyway in ycl), a slightly lesser quality/no amenity kit, keep lesser items in the rear buffet section, update their IFE less often, reduce the seat pitch to 33.5/34in (which is still pretty good), reduce seat width to 16.5/17in(again common in alot of carriers) and possibly make the seating config. 3-4-3(EK uses it succesfully), this would help in reducing fares by about INR 2500-3000/ seat(considering the amount they would also earn by selling alcohol). In a middle-class family of 4 a reduced fare of Rs3000/person means savings of Rs 12000 which is a substantial amount for any middle-class family.. Even at these fares pax will still get the legendry 9W service.!.!.! NOTE 1 Every thing mentioned is approx. 2 IND-LHR sector is taken as a sample. 3 If there are any suggestions, please tell me. This is only my 2nd post on AI.net!!! Thank-You... Back to top AOG Member Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 14 Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: 9W Seat Config for a Boeing 777-300ER 312 (8/30/274) AI Seat Config for a Boeing 777-300ER 346 (8/35/303) EK Seat Config for a Boeing 777-300ER 354 (8/42/304) 358 (12/42/304) 364 (12/42/310) 427 (0/42/385) 442 (0/42/400) Almost all airlines use a 3/3/3 config in economy on a 777-300ER _________________ 'Always hope for the best and prepare for the worst' Back to top avbuff Member Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 5031 Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: AI's B77W are not 8/35/303 they are 4/35/303. Back to top Spiderguy252 Member Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 4259 Location: Indian Ocean Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Does AI have any 77Ws without F? _________________ Yeah. Back to top Jaysit Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 4346 Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: AOG wrote: Almost all airlines use a 3/3/3 config in economy on a 777-300ER Not exactly true. Major airlines using 3-4-3 configurations on Boeing 777-300s include: Emirates, KLM, Air France, TAP. Many smaller carriers are also moving to this dense configuration on Boeing 777s (-200s and -300s) - TAAG Angola, Air Austral, and the rear Y cabin on OS's 777s come to mind. Changing Jet's configurations to a 3-4-3 isn't a good strategic move. The demand for seats on the LHR route that 9W deploys these aircraft on doesn't outstrip the current supply. Anything but, as a matter of fact. And airfares on this route in Y are at a historical low. If there are profit margins here, then they are either razor slim or non-existent. They can't go any lower without reaching farcical levels. More passengers are not going to travel this route if fares dropped even further. I think we've reached the point of diminishing return already. Moreover, airlines who have changed to this dense configuration use their aircraft across a variety of route types where seasonal tourist demands far outstrip existing supply. Thus, instead of operating a daily 772 and a daily A332 on such a route (at less than optimal load factors for at least one flight), airlines can send in a high capacity 77W packed with 400 seats at a 100% load factor. These seats are not sold at a lower cost than would seats with the comfort level a 3-3-3 config. provides. If anything, it lets the airlines maintain their prior Y class capacity with prior yields per seat while also adding a few higher yielding Y+ seats. So, no, I don't believe that Jet needs a higher capacity densely configured Y Class product sold at even more discounted rates. The numbers of passengers on this route, as well as the demographics dictate otherwise. Back to top karatecatman Guest Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:40 pm    Post subject: Spiderguy252 wrote: Does AI have any 77Ws without F? No!! Back to top me111993 Member Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 3225 Location: MAA/AMD Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Thank's for the reply everybody... Hey Jaysit, Only the last section of the 77W will be converted in Dense Economy. There has to be some break even load factor on this particular route,if only the last 12 rows are converted, creating 120 seats instead of the current 105 seats, including 15 more seats due to less seat pitch and seat width, also using the ways I suggested they can save upto INR 150,000 (approx.) Also I think, instead of the current IFE with AVOD, there can be many channels including commercials in-between whatever one is watching... Additional more seats with less fares would generate Rs 225,000 and acc. to the CEO of 9W, operating cost of a 9W B77W is $13000/hr making it approx INR 5.5mn/ one-way IND-LHR route. It's not that I don't understand that there are less PAX and more seats, but by reducing fares further more, PAX will choose 9W over others. Thanks for your views but just think about, my figures mentioned above. The last section of the 77W will generate (approx) 2,750,000 at 100% seat factor constituting about 50% of the flights expences!!! Let alone Fcl , Jcl and remaining seats of Ycl Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11354 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: AOG wrote: AI Seat Config for a Boeing 777-300ER 346 (8/35/303) I thought the AI 77Ws were: F4 J35 Y303 KCM - can you check up on this ? Back to top karatecatman Guest Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: AOG wrote: AI Seat Config for a Boeing 777-300ER 346 (8/35/303) I thought the AI 77Ws were: F4 J35 Y303 KCM - can you check up on this ? Boeing 777-200 LR 8+35+195 = 238 Boeing 777-300ER 4+35+303 = 342 Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11354 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject: karatecatman wrote: 747-237 wrote: AOG wrote: AI Seat Config for a Boeing 777-300ER 346 (8/35/303) I thought the AI 77Ws were: F4 J35 Y303 KCM - can you check up on this ? Boeing 777-200 LR 8+35+195 = 238 Boeing 777-300ER 4+35+303 = 342 Thanks, KCM; thats what I thought. Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Answer To Recession: Dense Economy? me111993 wrote: I say they convert the last section of the 77w into a dense economy class. In a 1-way service provide with 1 hot meal and 1 cold meal, charge for alcohol(which most airlines do anyway in ycl), a slightly lesser quality/no amenity kit, keep lesser items in the rear buffet section, update their IFE less often, reduce the seat pitch to 33.5/34in (which is still pretty good), reduce seat width to 16.5/17in(again common in alot of carriers) and possibly make the seating config. 3-4-3(EK uses it succesfully), this would help in reducing fares by about INR 2500-3000/ seat(considering the amount they would also earn by selling alcohol). Interesting thought - but instead of calling this as "Dense economy", they'd be better off creating a Y+ at slightly higher fares, and removing their current Y and replacing it with a denser config, but called Economy, thereby having a single Y product, and a better Y+ product. EK's 77Ws are a perfect example of such a "dense" config, and 9W could certainly convert a section to that. Unfortunately their pitch is already about 32" (certainly not the 35" you've mentioned), so there's not much scope for reduction on the pitch. But the width can be reduced, though it might require narrower trolleys etc. But ultimately it'll come down to the brand and the image that 9W wants to build for itself (premium, luxury, full service etc. vs. LCC). Plus if they try and get into the LCC space, then they're competing with established LCCs like IX, Air Arabia, Tiger etc. - who are the "experts" in that space. So I personally don't think 9W should try this move. _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> Civil Aviation All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum New Members----------------Sign-up Guidelines Airliners-India----------------Civil AviationNon AviationTrip ReportsMilitary Aviation & SpaceInternationalAviation Polls & PreferenceTech/OpsAviation PhotographyEditorial/Analysis/ArticlesAviation HobbyAviation LawAviation Questions & CareersSite Related Flickr Group----------------Photo of the Month My Message Board----------------Pin Up  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com