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me111993
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Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 3225
Location: MAA/AMD
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 Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:46 am Post subject: AI Goes Non-Stop BOM-SIN 787 -> 01/10/14 |
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I'm shedding crocodile tears now.
WEF 01.10.14
AI 342
BOM SIN
0005 0755
AI 343
SIN BOM
1915 2205
The AI 346/347 rotation on SIN-MAA-SIN also gets the 788.
rotation changes to BOM-SIN-MAA-SIN-BOM.
Superb move this, now, with the new product and morning/evening timings, they can compete better on BOM-SIN.
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Causal Determinism : We are hardwired to need answers. The Caveman who heard a rustle in the bushes and checked out to see what it was, lived longer than the guy, who assumed it was just a breeze.
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Nimish
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Good for AI! Get 2 O&D markets of BOM-SIN and MAA-SIN rather than another milk run type flight.
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abhijith16
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Posts: 1575
Location: DOH/IXE/MEL
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: AI Goes Non-Stop BOM-SIN 787 -> 01/10/14 |
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| me111993 wrote: | I'm shedding crocodile tears now.
WEF 01.10.14
AI 342
BOM SIN
0005 0755
AI 343
SIN BOM
1915 2205
The AI 346/347 rotation on SIN-MAA-SIN also gets the 788.
rotation changes to BOM-SIN-MAA-SIN-BOM.
Superb move this, now, with the new product and morning/evening timings, they can compete better on BOM-SIN. |
They will literally coincide SQ424/423
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ameya
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 3671
Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Great move. The 787 gets utilized fully now, which was earlier sitting idle from mid-day till 2205 at BOM.
Only problem is that there will be heavy delays since there is no recovery time now
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star*gold
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Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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After arriving in Singapore...
AI 347, SIN to MAA: dep 09:15 arr 10:25
AI 346, MAA to SIN: dep 11:30 arr 17:55 |
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Karan69
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 1334
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:38 am Post subject: |
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A good move by AI, as Ameya notes hardly any aircraft recovery time
Does this make AI SIN operations all 787 or does the second daily MAA service see the 332
Karan |
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ameya
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Posts: 3671
Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| Karan69 wrote: | A good move by AI, as Ameya notes hardly any aircraft recovery time
Does this make AI SIN operations all 787 or does the second daily MAA service see the 332
Karan |
AI is double daily on MAA-SIN ? I don't think so !
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sri_bom
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2365
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: |
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A very positive move but not sure if they can fill up the plane as most corporates prefer SQ or 9W. Timing wise is perfect.
Sri_Bom |
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justbala
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1898
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ameya wrote: | | Karan69 wrote: | A good move by AI, as Ameya notes hardly any aircraft recovery time
Does this make AI SIN operations all 787 or does the second daily MAA service see the 332
Karan |
AI is double daily on MAA-SIN ? I don't think so ! |
Isnt it already?!
AI 342 MAA 01:10 07:55 SIN
AI 346 MAA 11:30 17:55 SIN |
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ameya
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 3671
Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| justbala wrote: | | ameya wrote: | | Karan69 wrote: | A good move by AI, as Ameya notes hardly any aircraft recovery time
Does this make AI SIN operations all 787 or does the second daily MAA service see the 332
Karan |
AI is double daily on MAA-SIN ? I don't think so ! |
Isnt it already?!
AI 342 MAA 01:10 07:55 SIN
AI 346 MAA 11:30 17:55 SIN |
The 342 flight will be discontinued when 346 is introduced, existing BOM-MAA-SIN-MAA-BOM will operate as BOM-SIN-MAA-SIN-BOM
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| sri_bom wrote: | | ...not sure if they can fill up the plane as most corporates prefer SQ or 9W. Timing wise is perfect. |
Srinivas, I'll also ask the Industry insiders on this one: Can AI really create a splash on the BOM-SIN market with such a capacity upgrade (not to mention, the product upgrade as well)? Yes, SQ and 9W are big players on the leg, and the *A crowd would choose SQ over AI, as they have been loyally doing, over the years. AI's poor past reputation in J would hurt them here again.
The MAA-SIN market is one where AI have been doing well, and have done well, traditionally. The earlier BOM-SIN via MAA was precisely to have the MAA tag, for more traffic. The A332s will be returned to the lessor next month, from what I hear.
The Dream)liner's turnaround at SIN is quite interesting in terms of the routing.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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sri_bom
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 2365
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| sumantra wrote: | | sri_bom wrote: | | ...not sure if they can fill up the plane as most corporates prefer SQ or 9W. Timing wise is perfect. |
Srinivas, I'll also ask the Industry insiders on this one: Can AI really create a splash on the BOM-SIN market with such a capacity upgrade (not to mention, the product upgrade as well)? Yes, SQ and 9W are big players on the leg, and the *A crowd would choose SQ over AI, as they have been loyally doing, over the years. AI's poor past reputation in J would hurt them here again.
The MAA-SIN market is one where AI have been doing well, and have done well, traditionally. The earlier BOM-SIN via MAA was precisely to have the MAA tag, for more traffic. The A332s will be returned to the lessor next month, from what I hear.
The Dream)liner's turnaround at SIN is quite interesting in terms of the routing.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
Definitely not from Singapore point of sale, as I hardly know of any top multinational organization that has Air India as part of their corporate program. SQ followed by Jet has always been the preferred carriers in most corporate programs. |
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me111993
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Posts: 3225
Location: MAA/AMD
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: |
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Beyond what ^ is mentioned, whats disappointing is AI is scaling back on MAA-SIN, which is a very strong market for them, and is infact bigger than BOM-SIN in as a whole.
When they used to put a A319 on BOM-SIN direct, they would go double daily 332 on MAA-SIN, now they've been reduced to 1 afternoon 787 a day.
Its these traditional markets that AI scores in, people normally dont recognize a 787 as much as a perpetually delayed flight or the perception of a delayed flight.
Its not so much as a 9W 737 vs AI 787 on BOM-SIN, its the perception of reliability vs not so much.
I'm all for AI stepping up and competing on BOM-SIN, but why the hell was it at the expense of a MAA-SIN reduction.
Put an A319 on the MAA-SIN-DEL-MAA-SIN, and maintain a double daily MAA-SIN op, park the 787 which does DEL-SIN for the day, retime it around the same time the new BOM flight will leave, this way you get that reliability buffer too, and you can prevent cyclic delays originating from the BOM flight, as there are no other 787s based there.
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Causal Determinism : We are hardwired to need answers. The Caveman who heard a rustle in the bushes and checked out to see what it was, lived longer than the guy, who assumed it was just a breeze.
- Greg House |
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Spiderguy252
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Joined: 10 Aug 2007
Posts: 4259
Location: Indian Ocean
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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This is a good move overall, the ball will be back in 9W's court for now, at least with respect to the onboard product.
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Yeah. |
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| me111993 wrote: | | Beyond what ^ is mentioned, whats disappointing is AI is scaling back on MAA-SIN, which is a very strong market for them, and is infact bigger than BOM-SIN in as a whole. |
Point well made, Rishul, I had failed to observe this downscaling on a strong market. Srinivas yes: corporate traffic on both ends of the SIN-India market is primarily with SQ and then 9W in that order, and one does not see any reason for the *A crowd to switch loyalty from SQ, to AI.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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justbala
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Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 1898
Location: Bangalore
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| sumantra wrote: | | me111993 wrote: | | Beyond what ^ is mentioned, whats disappointing is AI is scaling back on MAA-SIN, which is a very strong market for them, and is infact bigger than BOM-SIN in as a whole. |
Point well made, Rishul, I had failed to observe this downscaling on a strong market. Srinivas yes: corporate traffic on both ends of the SIN-India market is primarily with SQ and then 9W in that order, and one does not see any reason for the *A crowd to switch loyalty from SQ, to AI.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
Logically it would have to be yield. I guess whtever traffic AI corners between BOM and SIN would be have a hgher yield than the one they are losing between MAA and SIN. |
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Caliguy
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Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 723
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| I think AI needs to give the *A crowd a reason to switch (or at least sample - don't think SQ or UA allows carry over of elite miles like Delta so once you've reached what you think is your max level of the year, you are free to sample). AI does such a great job of upgrading their employees, their family, their friends, their far relations. What they should do is start upgrading upper level elites on domestic and regional flights at the gate (maybe say must be __ fare class or higher or with a $50 supplement). This way corporate travelers who can't fly businesses on a short BOM-SIN flight might actually come over. Also it would push more India based travelers to credit miles to AI instead of UA, SQ, LH (because you would need AI status to get the free upgrade). If those J seats go empty anyway, fill them with the right type of people to build your business. |
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Nimish
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Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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^^ Some kind of innovative differentiation is key to get AI some traffic, but I think the first priority has to be to fix the premium product so it matches well against 9W/ SQ.
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Caliguy
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Posts: 723
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Nimish wrote: | | ^^ Some kind of innovative differentiation is key to get AI some traffic, but I think the first priority has to be to fix the premium product so it matches well against 9W/ SQ. |
Agreed what kills me is AI can't even deliver what they used to because of corruption. Where is the China and glassware that was bought? Why no more western meal in coach? I think if AI is actually held accountable for what is being purchased they will be fine. Remember AI's J is cheaper than SQ so no one expects 5 star but at least be a B grade J class. I think at a min they need:
1) increase Western movies / series on AVOD in all classes (I hear they are doing this) to the amount needed for 16 hour flights
2) Bring back real glasses and plates for J class meals (maybe even go back to the buffet cart and plate the meals at your seat - they did this when first class on a 747 was probably close to the seats now on a 787)
3) Offer at least indian non veg, western non veg and indian veg in all classes with a western veg pasta in business on premiere flights
4) offer proper pillow, comforter, noise canceling headphones in J
5) add cheap gimmicks like in the past (remember frooti mango drink in coach pre departure). |
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Caliguy wrote: | | Why no more western meal in coach? |
This option has always been there, right from AI's darkest three-and-a-half decades. Please look out for the `third' meal option. The `third' one is a local one on the route. You'll get a Korean-styled meal on the HKG-ICN leg, a Japanese-based option on the DEL-NRT flight, a Continental non-veg (fish, usually) on flights on the Europe/North America runs, for instance. Ask me. I think I have flown more on AI than most members, at least: both domestic, as well as long-haul. I have described them in detail, in my trip reports. Look out for my recent trip reports, after I graduated to a Sony HX300. There will be meal pictures as well, including this `third' option, for visual proof. These will start from the trip reports Nov'13 and later. There is still some backlog for me to cover.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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Caliguy
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Posts: 723
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:22 am Post subject: |
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| sumantra wrote: | | Caliguy wrote: | | Why no more western meal in coach? |
This option has always been there, right from AI's darkest three-and-a-half decades. Please look out for the `third' meal option. The `third' one is a local one on the route. You'll get a Korean-styled meal on the HKG-ICN leg, a Japanese-based option on the DEL-NRT flight, a Continental non-veg (fish, usually) on flights on the Europe/North America runs, for instance. Ask me. I think I have flown more on AI than most members, at least: both domestic, as well as long-haul. I have described them in detail, in my trip reports. Look out for my recent trip reports, after I graduated to a Sony HX300. There will be meal pictures as well, including this `third' option, for visual proof. These will start from the trip reports Nov'13 and later. There is still some backlog for me to cover.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
Interesting. I feel like in reviews of AI, many westerners complain about the lack of a western option (some have been in J even) and very few western movies (especially new hollywood ones). But you are right, I always remembered AI serving them in the 80's. hence my confusion. |
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