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avbuff
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5031
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 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: Air India to start third daily DEL LHR from 01NOV |
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Effective 01NOV15, AI to go triple daily on DEL LHR
AI 161 DEL LHR 0215 0630
AI 160 LHR DEL 0845 2235
Daily B777-200LR |
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ameya
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 3671
Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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LR is the surprising eqpt
May be they ll shift to 787 later
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airbus340
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 465
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Air India to start third daily DEL LHR from 01NOV |
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| avbuff wrote: | Effective 01NOV15, AI to go triple daily on DEL LHR
AI 161 DEL LHR 0215 0630
AI 160 LHR DEL 0845 2235
Daily B777-200LR |
This flights is perfectly times to connect onto AC and UA flights to the US and Canada .
With AI imminently moving into T 2 at LHR all it now needs to do is align with all Star partners and fill up this flight.
The biggest looser here will be VS as its the smallest airlines on the route . The going just got a lot more tougher for them with this third AI daily . |
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jasepl
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Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 4257
Location: bund-bay
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Air India to start third daily DEL LHR from 01NOV |
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More taxpayer money down the sandaas.
But I'll give Air India one thing, they seem to at least be aware of the market they're serving and seem to be figuring out, albeit slowly, how to
That said, two weeks notice? Really?
| airbus340 wrote: | This flights is perfectly times to connect onto AC and UA flights to the US and Canada .
With AI imminently moving into T 2 at LHR all it now needs to do is align with all Star partners and fill up this flight.
The biggest looser here will be VS as its the smallest airlines on the route . The going just got a lot more tougher for them with this third AI daily . |
Perhaps it does fit in with the AC and UA schedules, but what's the point in that?
AI already serve a lot of the destinations on their own directly from Dilly, so they should be working to get those flights filled profitably.
DEL-LHR-EWR on AI/UA instead of DEL-BOM-EWR on their own metal? DEL-LHR-ORD on AI/UA instead of DEL-ORD on AI? Why on earth?
Yes, there are several destinations that AI do not serve (Montreal, Houston, Vancouver, Washington, Halifax etc) that can now be added. But even then, those connections should go through Newark and Chicago, not London or Frankfurt.
In any event, what AI also need to do right away, is to demand that AC / NH / UA switch their Indian partner from 9W to AI. SAA might be a lost cause now that they've moved to the Island of Lost Airlines in Abu Dhabi.
As for the (not quite a) Virgin of Atlanta, I don't see how this can have any impact on them. After all, DEL-LHR on VS, especially in PY, is the highest yielding per square mm of any ropute flown by any airline anywhere in the world. How can dowdy, frumpy old AI even dream to make a dent in that armour?
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Air India to start third daily DEL LHR from 01NOV |
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| jasepl wrote: | | DEL-LHR-EWR on AI/UA instead of DEL-BOM-EWR on their own metal? DEL-LHR-ORD on AI/UA instead of DEL-ORD on AI? Why on earth? |
Many *A members such as LH have parallel routes not on their own metal, for heavy routes. Of course AI is not even a shade of LH, but I do not see any thing that unusual here. The two routes you mentioned are ones on which AI does/has done exceedingly well.
| jasepl wrote: | | In any event, what AI also need to do right away, is to demand that AC / NH / UA switch their Indian partner from 9W to AI. |
That change is happening, albeit slowly. AI is appearing on UA schedules, for instance, although there seem to be more 9W offerings than AI ones. Again, an airline can have lots of pre-alliance partners (not from the same alliance) in its code-shares. Nothing terribly wrong here.
| jasepl wrote: | | Virgin Atlantic/Atlanta |
They have a surprisingly good following on the DEL-LHR route, owing to often really cheap tickets (often through travel agents, who seem to give eyeball-popping deals, often including connection to the US via LHR). They see good numbers on their flights. As Karan-ji pointed out, the Y+ offering on VS sees quite a bit of patronage from Indian students, with the generous baggage allowance.
All said and done, I am a bit surprised to see this third frequency all of a sudden, which caters primarily to O&D traffic, though the India-end connections are good both ways, in tune with the AI banks, and the LHR end, with the AC/UA connections.
- The sheer capacity increase with a Dream)liner (as things will possibly stabilise towards) is a bit of a shock. AI are a bit behind the market leaders here. All three flights do a reasonable turn-around at LHR and head back, and do not utilise any fifth-freedom traffic, if any chance still exists today.
- BA undoubtedly lead the market, especially with regard to the premium traffic. 9W have a good share of the premium pie as well, and their B77W ops do quite well. Rishul had an interesting analysis on this, on the WA group.
- From the late 2000s to around 2013, the cheapest tickets available were on VS and surprisingly, 9W tickets were close-by. I have some circumstantial evidence here.
- AI has some premium traffic, primarily Govt traffic, and hence, the B77W on the route. However, AI have not done that well on this route, though their planes see a fair patronage (primarily in Y). Their fares are among the highest, and traditionally, this has been often the case, on the average.
- Apart from the Winter rush, I wonder what specific promise AI sees in this capacity upgrade, when perhaps MAN would have been an interesting choice. Is it to build up a better image, and try to capture a bigger share of the market, with some better offerings, under Team Lohani?
- Can Ojas/Ameya do a quick study on this route, with some numbers, as well?
Thanks, Sumantra. |
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Caliguy
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Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 723
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Aren't these the slots AI leased to UA? I think AI needs to do temporary swaps and improve timings. After all these are the timings of their historical jfk and ord through flights. My big complaint is LHR-Bom. Those timings are LHR-BOM as 1:30pm -4am and then 7am-11:30am back. Who wants to arrive Bom at 4am and the 7am departure means no connections. Right now no one has an early morning arrival in BOM. I think a 4:30pm departure from LHR with 7am arrival in BOM would give them a true red eye. On return leave bom at 10am and arrive lhr at 2:30pm. I am assuming that ai has an early morning arrivals into BOM from the close surrounding region (2 hours). Even if they delay everything by 1 hour to have a 11am departure from bom with a 8am arrival into bom, it would still work (ie the business traveler can make it to work that mirning after showering)
The best news about 3X to Del is AI gets that they have a Del hub and they are feeding it. Great (as we know they cant waste the slot). Better del than launching amd or atq |
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airbus340
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 465
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Air India to start third daily DEL LHR from 01NOV |
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| jasepl wrote: | More taxpayer money down the sandaas.
But I'll give Air India one thing, they seem to at least be aware of the market they're serving and seem to be figuring out, albeit slowly, how to
That said, two weeks notice? Really?
| airbus340 wrote: | This flights is perfectly times to connect onto AC and UA flights to the US and Canada .
With AI imminently moving into T 2 at LHR all it now needs to do is align with all Star partners and fill up this flight.
The biggest looser here will be VS as its the smallest airlines on the route . The going just got a lot more tougher for them with this third AI daily . |
Perhaps it does fit in with the AC and UA schedules, but what's the point in that?
AI already serve a lot of the destinations on their own directly from Dilly, so they should be working to get those flights filled profitably.
DEL-LHR-EWR on AI/UA instead of DEL-BOM-EWR on their own metal? DEL-LHR-ORD on AI/UA instead of DEL-ORD on AI? Why on earth?
Yes, there are several destinations that AI do not serve (Montreal, Houston, Vancouver, Washington, Halifax etc) that can now be added. But even then, those connections should go through Newark and Chicago, not London or Frankfurt.
In any event, what AI also need to do right away, is to demand that AC / NH / UA switch their Indian partner from 9W to AI. SAA might be a lost cause now that they've moved to the Island of Lost Airlines in Abu Dhabi.
As for the (not quite a) Virgin of Atlanta, I don't see how this can have any impact on them. After all, DEL-LHR on VS, especially in PY, is the highest yielding per square mm of any ropute flown by any airline anywhere in the world. How can dowdy, frumpy old AI even dream to make a dent in that armour? |
The new 3 rd daily doesnt show up for the Summer 16 .
My guess is UA returned the slot . AI tried to whore it out . That didnt happen and as LHR has a policy that you loose slots if you dont use them , this is what they call a Slot Sitting excersise .
If it works for them well and good , otherwise there will be a long que of takes for this slot pair for the Summer months. |
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yashkhullar
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Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:57 am Post subject: AMD-LHR |
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What about the AMD-LHR flight that was doing the news rounds?
AI should have started LHR from a new destination providing one stop connectivity to a host of new destinations that would otherwise been 2-stop via delhi. Also the AI 115/116 could be retimed to the AI 161/162 slot and the new flight could should have been launched at an early morning departure?
Is AI getting the 77W back on AI 111/112? Cause the 2 788s and 1 77L makes more sense than a 77W, 77L and 788 daily. |
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Jaysit
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Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 4346
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Is this to allow for a more profitable Oz operation by allowing Westbound flights a more reasonable transit in DEL? Well, reasonable at least in AI's mind.
Right now, Oz bound pax from LHR have a 2 hr layover in DEL, but LHR bound pax from Oz hatch eggs for 12 hours. I guess with this new flight, they'll hatch eggs for only 8 hours. |
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| Jaysit wrote: | | Right now, Oz bound pax from LHR have a 2 hr layover in DEL, but LHR bound pax from Oz hatch eggs for 12 hours. I guess with this new flight, they'll hatch eggs for only 8 hours. |
Ha ha 
Sanjay, I think there are far more serious issues with regard to this third frequency, rather than a one-stop Oz route, which I have listed in my post above.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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lavence7
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Joined: 13 Feb 2010
Posts: 101
Location: Mumbai, India, Juhu
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Nice they tapping into LHR. It should bode well for them, they have all the Star connections and feed from LON & in-bound local feed at DEL end. Much better than starting it from those self-serving cities like ATQ or AMD which get no additional feed from anywhere.
The new flight will be better served with their 788 than 77L, considering they always cry about the latters inefficiency. |
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Nimish
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Any info on AI's plan to move to LHR T2? The exclusive *A terminal - where every other *A carrier has already shifted, barring AI?
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We miss you Nalini! |
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airbus340
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 465
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:10 am Post subject: Re: AMD-LHR |
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| yashkhullar wrote: | What about the AMD-LHR flight that was doing the news rounds?
AI should have started LHR from a new destination providing one stop connectivity to a host of new destinations that would otherwise been 2-stop via delhi. Also the AI 115/116 could be retimed to the AI 161/162 slot and the new flight could should have been launched at an early morning departure?
Is AI getting the 77W back on AI 111/112? Cause the 2 788s and 1 77L makes more sense than a 77W, 77L and 788 daily. |
Looks like AI is still making changes to rationalize capacity on this route . Below are the latest ones .
Air India in the last two days further revised planned operation for Delhi London Heathrow route. Planned introduction of 3rd daily flight (AI161/162) remains unchanged from 01NOV15, however there will be operational aircraft changes on other flights.
AI111/112 Boeing 787-8 replaces 777-300ER from 03NOV15
AI115/116 Boeing 777-200LR replaces 787-8 from 06NOV15 to 29NOV15
By 30NOV15, AI operates 2 daily 787 and 1 daily 777-200LR on this route. The following is operational schedule from 01DEC15 to 15FEB16.
AI161 DEL0215 0630LHR 77L D
AI115 DEL0650 1105LHR 788 D
AI111 DEL1445 1855LHR 788 D
AI162 LHR0845 2235DEL 77L D
AI116 LHR1300 0250+1DEL 788 D
AI112 LHR2130 1120+1DEL 788 D |
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yashkhullar
Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2014
Posts: 44
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: Re: AMD-LHR |
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| airbus340 wrote: | | yashkhullar wrote: | What about the AMD-LHR flight that was doing the news rounds?
AI should have started LHR from a new destination providing one stop connectivity to a host of new destinations that would otherwise been 2-stop via delhi. Also the AI 115/116 could be retimed to the AI 161/162 slot and the new flight could should have been launched at an early morning departure?
Is AI getting the 77W back on AI 111/112? Cause the 2 788s and 1 77L makes more sense than a 77W, 77L and 788 daily. |
Looks like AI is still making changes to rationalize capacity on this route . Below are the latest ones .
Air India in the last two days further revised planned operation for Delhi London Heathrow route. Planned introduction of 3rd daily flight (AI161/162) remains unchanged from 01NOV15, however there will be operational aircraft changes on other flights.
AI111/112 Boeing 787-8 replaces 777-300ER from 03NOV15
AI115/116 Boeing 777-200LR replaces 787-8 from 06NOV15 to 29NOV15
By 30NOV15, AI operates 2 daily 787 and 1 daily 777-200LR on this route. The following is operational schedule from 01DEC15 to 15FEB16.
AI161 DEL0215 0630LHR 77L D
AI115 DEL0650 1105LHR 788 D
AI111 DEL1445 1855LHR 788 D
AI162 LHR0845 2235DEL 77L D
AI116 LHR1300 0250+1DEL 788 D
AI112 LHR2130 1120+1DEL 788 D |
Thanks! This makes sense. Does anyone here have info on VT-ALG? I am sure AI needs it in the next 10 days. |
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Caliguy
Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 723
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| If you really think about it BOM and DEL to LHR deserve 3 flights per day from a local airline - morning fligt from LHR, red eye from LHR that lands in ndoa at 7am and red eye late departure from lhr that gets into india at 11am. If 9w ever partners with delta and virgin, i hope they do this with BOM with 9w flying 2 flights and VS one |
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