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GoI approves AI/IA merger
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COUGAR
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EXCTLY Avijeet!!

After the merger, the dept that is IC will be made to curtail its international operations, especially to SIN and more crippling to the Middle East on the pretext that you cant have 2 Govt airlines competing AGAINST each other.

But as soon as the merger is done, the Gulf market will be thrown open to 9W which is waiting like a wolf in the wings to gobble up the routes that are currently operated by IC. PP's and NG's gameplan is very clear: to make way for a monopoly by 9W!
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avbuff
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

COUGAR wrote:
EXCTLY Avijeet!!

After the merger, the dept that is IC will be made to curtail its international operations, especially to SIN and more crippling to the Middle East on the pretext that you cant have 2 Govt airlines competing AGAINST each other.

But as soon as the merger is done, the Gulf market will be thrown open to 9W which is waiting like a wolf in the wings to gobble up the routes that are currently operated by IC. PP's and NG's gameplan is very clear: to make way for a monopoly by 9W!


ya so u want 2 govt airlines to compete and add to the losses i dnt know how u jump to the conclusions IC nothing but a piece of shit in the middle east treating the passengers like some herd of buffaloes with t he offcials insultlting female pax as well ... and trust me ive seen it with my own eyes and the security ppl have issued warnings to the IC staff at doha and dubai

and now IC is getting competition from G9 on the SHJ india sector and trust me ppl are ditching IC and running towards G9 .. wat a shame IC has to be compete with a LCC

and wat difference does it make AI or IC in the domestic market yes IC
has a good reputation only because there is COMPETITION. with 9W in the market at least IC may act more humane
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the_380
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
ya so u want 2 govt airlines to compete and add to the losses i dnt know how u jump to the conclusions IC nothing but a piece of shit in the middle east treating the passengers like some herd of buffaloes with t he offcials insultlting female pax as well ... and trust me ive seen it with my own eyes and the security ppl have issued warnings to the IC staff at doha and dubai

How does it matter??? As it is will lose routes so it means less incomes that will result in losses for IC and profits for 9W.
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avbuff
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

see after the merger ... the routes at which they are competing shoud be operated by a single entity or there should be a provision of a code share that one way i go by AI and return on IC ... then things may work out and also the timings have to be manouvered in such a way that the number of slots available may be utilised efficiently
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mrniji
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it is not too bad if AI/IC loose their royalties on the Middle East.. the sector is strong enough equipped to let the free market forces play, no need for subsidies here.

However, if it comes to other diaspora routes (as Lusaka, etc), such flights should be subsidized, as they benefit the entire economy and the country as a whole. Sometimes, operational figures are just not sufficient when it comes to promoting the "wealth of a nation". Or, there should be a competitive bidding of public and private airlines for subsidies to unlucrative routes, domestic and international (danger of corruption and rent-seeking though).. leaving the game alone to the free market is dangerous.. competition and the free market forces are excellent, but the resulting energies sometimes need to be redirected, in the "interest of the nation"
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COUGAR
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:

ya so u want 2 govt airlines to compete and add to the losses i dnt know how u jump to the conclusions IC nothing but a piece of shit in the middle east treating the passengers like some herd of buffaloes with t he offcials insultlting female pax as well ... and trust me ive seen it with my own eyes and the security ppl have issued warnings to the IC staff at doha and dubai

and now IC is getting competition from G9 on the SHJ india sector and trust me ppl are ditching IC and running towards G9 .. wat a shame IC has to be compete with a LCC

and wat difference does it make AI or IC in the domestic market yes IC
has a good reputation only because there is COMPETITION. with 9W in the market at least IC may act more humane


First off all, go easy with the SMS lingo. It makes your posts harder to read.

And nobody is jumping to conclusions. People here are making wild and completely unsubstantiated claims about 40% loads and all that which are completely UNTRUE!

IC and AI are both operting with decent profits and decent loads on their SIN flights, even with flights leaving within 15 mins of each other. And it is 9W which is having issues with profitability on these sectors. What the merger is doing is reducing competeition for 9W!

Not surprising since all of PP's moves ever since he became minister have been to benefit this one private airline.

And whether 9W is a better airline or not is completely bnesides the point. AI/IC are state owned entities fulfilling a certain role. How ethical is it for the minister to systematically destroy the comptetiton provided by AI/IC and allow 9W to have a free run?

All the problesm we saw in the past were directly related to the monopoly situation that existed in the Indian market. We saw things improving only after AI/IC's monopoly ended. What we are seeing now is an attempt to create ANOTHER monopoly in the form of privately owned 9W! Atleast IC was state owned was controllable. How do you control a monopoly owned privately?
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VABBy wrote:
Jaysit wrote:
without any real competition from the private sector, you can have all sorts of overlap and get away with it.



Things have changed alot here mate. U have Reliance , Cairns and Essar now competeting with different PSU,s not only in refining business bt also in retail of petroleum products. A bit offtopic bt thought will update u.


Sorry, but its still a tiny fraction of the gasoline/oil/petroleum salesw market. Reliance still can't sell petrol. And lubrication products, etc., are a miniscule section of petroleum sales. The comparison between the aviation and energy markets remains an odious and wholly inappropriate one.

As far as curtailing the operation of Indian carriers to the Gulf just to protect the interests of AI and IC (both of which provide substandard products in comparison to their Gulf competitors), its emblematic of a centuries old Indian attitude in which animosity towards your fellow Indian trumps any ill feeling to foreign forces. Its what allowed the East India Company to take over trade and commerce in India, and its allowed Emirates/Qatar/Gulf Air/Etihad, etc., to dominate the most profitable aviation market in and out of India. If Jet Airways and Kingfisher can provide top notch services to the Gulf while employing Indians and bringing more jobs to India, encourage that. Instead, we have people who have greater allegiance to the teetering entites that are IC and AI than to the country as a whole. Lets face it - IC and AI can't do for India what SQ and EK and CX do for their countries. Jet and, perhaps, Kingfisher can. Let them.

At the end of the day,
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mrniji
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Jaysit"][quote="VABBy"]
Jaysit wrote:
As far as curtailing the operation of Indian carriers to the Gulf just to protect the interests of AI and IC (both of which provide substandard products in comparison to their Gulf competitors), its emblematic of a centuries old Indian attitude in which animosity towards your fellow Indian trumps any ill feeling to foreign forces.


IMHO the royalty for AI/IC are counter productive.. since their product is, as you say, substandard, I rather see pax running to the Middle Eastern carriers than any benefit for AI/IC arising... if we liberalize that sector, then 9W, Kingfisher etc. might win. Hence, the biz stays in India... does this make sense?
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must add that those among the Indian diaspora in the US who care about these things are looking forward to Jet Airways entry into the US-India market.

Can you imagine if, say, IC had begun flights to the US? It would have provoked howls of laughter and disbelief.
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaysit wrote:


Sorry, but its still a tiny fraction of the gasoline/oil/petroleum salesw market. Reliance still can't sell petrol. And lubrication products, etc., are a miniscule section of petroleum sales. The comparison between the aviation and energy markets remains an odious and wholly inappropriate one.


Reliance is selling petrol to retail customers and had over 500 petrol stations in March 2006.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here they go again.

Amisdst all the talk of merger, IA and AI have announced independent plans to opearete out of Kolkata.
AI is looking at Kolkata-Tokyo through SE Asia, while IA has said a substantail number of its new fleet will be operating to new and existing SE destination s out of Kolkata.
AI Express has announced plans too with a number of LCC flts to SE Asia.
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

himmat01 wrote:
Jaysit wrote:


Sorry, but its still a tiny fraction of the gasoline/oil/petroleum salesw market. Reliance still can't sell petrol. And lubrication products, etc., are a miniscule section of petroleum sales. The comparison between the aviation and energy markets remains an odious and wholly inappropriate one.


Reliance is selling petrol to retail customers and had over 500 petrol stations in March 2006.


Well, I stand corrected then. Thanks for pointing out my error.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatecatman wrote:
Here they go again.

Amisdst all the talk of merger, IA and AI have announced independent plans to opearete out of Kolkata.
AI is looking at Kolkata-Tokyo through SE Asia, while IA has said a substantail number of its new fleet will be operating to new and existing SE destination s out of Kolkata.
AI Express has announced plans too with a number of LCC flts to SE Asia.


Oh good - more fun in the offing Smile

What else can one say Mad Confused ?
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karatecatman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More details:
Air India:
Delhi-Dhaka-Kolkata-London (777) Existing.
Delhi-Kolkata-Tokyo (747-400) (Planned)
or
Mumbai-Kolkata-Tokyo (747-400)

Air India Express
Planned
Kolkata-Bangkok
Kolkata-KL
Kolkata-Singapore

Indian
Kolkata-Bangkok (Existing)
Kolkata-Yangon (Existing)


Planned:
Gaya-Kolkata-Singapore - A320
Kolkata-KL --A300/A320
Kolkata-Jakarta -- A319
Kolkata-Ho Chi Minh City (Vietnam) --A319
Kolkata-Bandar Seri Begawan (Brunei) --A319

The MoCA says half a dozen destinations have been identified (so the list could be more.)


This is after Buddhadeb Babu made an appeal to the Centre saying there is going to be largescale investment (ala Mitsubishi Chemicals) and the large tourist traffic to Gaya.
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the_380
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, nice to see things going in their own ways...after all im against the merger Twisted Evil
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COUGAR
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KCM: I hear there are plans to link Gaya to Tokyo, Osaka, Colombo and Bangkok.
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The infrastructure in Gaya for foreign tourists is hopeless. I visited Gaya 2 years ago and noticed that most of the Buddhist sites were poorly maintained, garbage was everywhere, the hotels were roach motels, and pickpockets and thieves preyed on unsuspecting foreigners. Above all, I didn't see a single functioning traffic light. The city had delicious Kesari pedas, but the ones I ate gave me a night of excruciating stomach pains.

To sum it up, typical Bihar.

I hear that the Japanese government has agreed to a $ 1 billion grant to improve the Buddhist shrine circuit. Of course, if any of this money ended up in the pockets of Bihari politicians, the less said the better.
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the_380
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaysit wrote:
The infrastructure in Gaya for foreign tourists is hopeless. I visited Gaya 2 years ago and noticed that most of the Buddhist sites were poorly maintained, garbage was everywhere, the hotels were roach motels, and pickpockets and thieves preyed on unsuspecting foreigners

My grandparents had also been to Gaya in Sept 06. They also complained the same things. So nothing has changed since the time you went.

Jaysit wrote:
I hear that the Japanese government has agreed to a $ 1 billion grant to improve the Buddhist shrine circuit. Of course, if any of this money ended up in the pockets of Bihari politicians, the less said the better.

I wish they do everything themselves than just giving away 1 billion dollars.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://tinyurl.com/2tctu2
Speculations over name, 'Maharajah' still on
Tuesday February 27 2007 10:48 IST
T'PURAM: With the merger of Air India and Indian drawing closer, speculations are rife about the name of the new company and the fate of Maharajah, the mascot of Air India.

Air Indian or Indian Air is among the likely names for the new national carrier, according to sources. Rolling Eyes

It is learnt that the name of the new airline has already been decided, but is kept under wraps.
Rolling Eyes (We all know what happnd to the new Air India colours)!!!

Though the chances of retaining either Air India or Indian as the title of the new company are bleak, sources in the airline industry point to the fact that since the title Air India has already been well established all over the world it would be better to retain the title Air India from a commercial point of view.

The title Air Indian, a combination of Air India and Indian, is also doing the rounds. What adds to the workability of the title is that it sounds similar to Air India.

An entirely different change in the title will force the new company to invest heavily in popularising the new title. Hence the chances for titles like Bharat are also bleak. Moreover, the title Bharat is not familiar to foreigners. Rolling Eyes

Tata Airlines which was started in 1932 by J R D Tata became Air India in 1953 with the Centre acquiring major stakes. Indian Airlines was also started in 1953.

Air-India's logo 'Maharajah' which made its appearance in 1946 has become a familiar figure. The fate of 'Maharajah' too hangs in the balance with the merger of the national carriers.

The proposal for Air India-Indian merger was approved by the empowered committee of Union Ministers last week and it is now pending Cabinet approval


Seems to be in line with the renaming of Air Lanka -- which became SRI LANKAN.
And if this is true, now for the paint job all over again. This seems to be the real scandal. Should demand an RTI into this considering the fees paid to the agencies handling the ID changes down to baggage tags.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://tinyurl.com/2u3k89
Post-merger, A-I, IA to hire new advisor

P R Sanjai / Mumbai February 23, 2007



Post-merger, Air India and Indian Airlines will hire a change management consultant to enable the employee adapt with new working environment and reorient themselves to deliver better performance.

Air India Chairman and Managing Director Vasudevan Thulasidas said the combined entity will have a change management consultant which will enable employees to be IT-savvy.

“Initially, Air India was planning to hire a change management consultant to help employees in rebranding exercise. Now, we have shelved the plans to go on solo and this will be implemented post-merger,” Thulasidas said.

Air India has shortlisted two IT majors TCS and IBM.
....



Getting more confusing by the day. Rolling Eyes
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Air Indian makes no sense.

Sounds like babu English.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaysit wrote:
Air Indian makes no sense.


A rose is a rose by any name....

Though AI today is actually quite far from a rose Very Happy
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the_380
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:

A rose is a rose by any name....

Though AI today is actually quite far from a rose Very Happy

If not rose they'eatleast thorns Razz
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still vote for the Name "AIR INDIA".
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would 2nd that. It should be AIR INDIA at the end of the day.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aarbee wrote:
Would 2nd that. It should be AIR INDIA at the end of the day.

Yes and the other should remain INDIAN AIRLINES also... Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how 'bout "Airlines of India" Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
NEW DELHI: The government on Thursday gave its final stamp of approval to the proposed merger of the two-state run carriers - Air India and Indian Airlines - paving the way for the creation of a combined airline which will be among the 10 biggest in Asia in terms of fleet size.

With a fleet strength of over 120 aircraft and a staff of about 30,000, the new entity would not only be the largest in the country, but also among the top 30 airlines globally.

While clearing the proposed merger, the government made it clear that the public sector character of the merged airline would be maintained, which means that the Centre will always hold over 50% stake in the company.

The move follows the approval of an empowered group of ministers headed by external affairs minister Pranab Mukherjee last month.


Times of India

rgds
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story.php?content_id=156530
Quotes:
The new entity formed after the merger of state-run carriers Air India and Indian will be in place within 4 months, Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel informed the Parliament on Friday.
Announcing the government's decision to merge the two airlines in Parliament, Patel said the amalgamation process would be carried out in phases over two years and its technical formalities put in place in the next 16 weeks.
"It is estimated this decision would result in the net benefit of Rs 600 crore at the end of third year of merger," he said in a statement laid in both Houses of Parliament.

"The technical and procedural formalities for merging the two airlines would begin immediately and one company with one name, one brand, one logo, one code and single financials is expected to be in place within the coming 16 weeks", he said.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more news in Rolling Eyes

Air-India, Indian merger in two years: Praful Patel

New Delhi, March 3 (IANS) The merger of the two state-run carriers Air India and Indian Airlines would be executed in phases over the next two years and result in a net benefit of Rs.6 billion, Rolling Eyes Civil Aviation Minister Praful Patel said Friday.

'Technical and procedural formalities for merging the two airlines would begin immediately and one company with one name, one brand, one logo, one code and single financials is expected to be in place in the coming 16 weeks,' he said.


'The merger of the two airlines would be completed in a phased manner over next two years,' Patel told parliament, a day after the union cabinet, chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, gave a go ahead to the proposal.


In a statement, the minister said the two state-run carriers shared a proud legacy. 'But in the past decade, their market position has been adversely affected due to intense competition and their inability to induct new fleet,' he added.


Full Article Here
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AI-IA merger will make no difference as far as BLR is concerned.They will continue to ignore this busy city.When all the other major Int'lcarriers are queing up to operate direct flghts or expand their current flghts to BLR,AI and IA continue to amaze me with strange routes like CCU-TOKYO.Wonder when they will ever learn to be competitive Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MERGER UPDATES AND DETAILS
Some updates here:
    AI and IC board members are already preparing a common WINTER SCHEDULE for this year.
    New entity most probably to be called 'Indian Airways'/
    Possibility of retaining the existing schemes (Indian and the new AI livery)

Btw IC engg union was forced to sign the agreement...however clauses are being put up by them too.
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_380 wrote:
MERGER UPDATES AND DETAILS
Some updates here:
    AI and IC board members are already preparing a common WINTER SCHEDULE for this year.
    New entity most probably to be called 'Indian Airways'/
    Possibility of retaining the existing schemes (Indian and the new AI livery)

Btw IC engg union was forced to sign the agreement...however clauses are being put up by them too.


The new schemes of AI and IC could actually be combined. Replace the stupid chopped up centaur on the tail with IC's stylized chakra, and keep the centaurs on the engines. Call the airline "Indian" and leave it at that.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://tinyurl.com/29faem

Indian (IA's) unions raise ante in airline merger talks

Quotes:
Sources close to the process say most unions in Air India have reconciled to the merger, while those in Indian have opposed it and insist that their pending demands be settled before they give their assent to the process. Minister for civil aviation Praful Patel will meet with unions in the two carriers this Wednesday again, in an attempt to sort out the differences.

At stake in Indian are three major issues — that of a wage revision agreement, which is pending since 1997; of clarity on career progression vis-ŕ-vis Air India employees; and finally the contentious issue of the payment of arrears. Senior officials in Indian say the first two issues may be sorted out, but paying the 18,000 workforce arrears for the past decade is not on the cards.


Last edited by karatecatman on Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea and DONT EVER REPLACE THE TITLES WITH THE 'INDIAN AIRWAYS' stickers
PS: How many people saw the movie Zameen? Wink The airline whose flight was hijacked was called as Indian Airways Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
AI, Indian merger in 16 weeks
MUMBAI: A new airline resulting from the merger of Air India and Indian will be in existence within 16 weeks, according to a letter written by joint secretary, ministry of civil aviation, RK Singh, to allay the fears of jittery employees of Indian.

“The new airline will be a single company with one brand, a single logo and it will operate under a single code,” the statement says. It also chalks out broad contours of the process and tries to clear doubts on the way forward. The statement comes even as the government gets busy with the legalities of merging the two entities from April 1 on one hand and tackles sparring unions on the other.


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News_By_Industry/Transportation/Airlines__Aviation/AI_Indian_merger_in_16_weeks/articleshow/1729285.cms
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