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PIA Saftey Concerns

 
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kam
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: PIA Saftey Concerns Reply with quote

Its not Indian Aviation related but it makes intresting reading

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Europe_all_set_to_blacklist_Pakistan_airline/articleshow/1670661.cms

Seems a bit harsh considering there T7s are newish

Kam
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AKLDELNonstop
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they use the T7s there? Or maybe its safety issues wid pax and lack of proper security at airports in Pak thats worrying them. Surely cant be the T7s. They are brand new.
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karatecatman
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all but 7 of PIA's 40-odd fleet.
This leaves out the 777s.
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kam
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PIA use T7s to the UK and on at least 2 occassions there have been problems at Manchester with the gear catching fire due to the wrong type of grease being used and a cargo door falling off the aircraft. To round it all off a PIA pilot was arrested for being over the permissable blood alcohol levels

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HamiltonAir
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kam wrote:
PIA use T7s to the UK and on at least 2 occassions there have been problems at Manchester with the gear catching fire due to the wrong type of grease being used and a cargo door falling off the aircraft. To round it all off a PIA pilot was arrested for being over the permissable blood alcohol levels

Kam



That sums it up. However, howz the airline, I mean their service, schedules, has any of our members flown on that airline?
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Aiel
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On A.net , they mention that all but 7 of their aircraft might be banned. Coincidentally, They have 7 T7s.

So they can fly only their T7s to Europe.
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mrniji
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the problems with VT-AIM (SUnderbans) go on, this might well happen to AI as well, with good reasons. There was a big article in the German www.spiegel-online.de about Sunderbans
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the_380
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although its harsh...but its not gonna help against terrorism...a terrorist can even fly from Pakistan (if he originates from there) to DXB and use EK. So whats the big deal? Rolling Eyes
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Aseem
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrniji wrote:
If the problems with VT-AIM (SUnderbans) go on, this might well happen to AI as well, with good reasons. There was a big article in the German www.spiegel-online.de about Sunderbans


was able to find the article and got it translated by Google. here you go

Speigel-Online wrote:

Verfluchter flight AI 136
By Andreas Spaeth

29 hours of delay, problems with passenger lists, dubious luggage on board: The chaos around a air India jumbo jet to Frankfurt airport wakes doubts about aviation security - also on Lufthansa co-operation flights.

The Steigenberger air haven hotel to Frankfurt airport does not need to at present make itself around its extent of utilization concerns: For Sunday here night for night passengers stranded find accomodation. Not some stragglers, that missed their flight, but hundreds genervte traveler. They all are damages of the air India: Fog in Delhi, a damaged airplane, safety breakdowns - for the national Indian airline it comes to time club-thickly. And the chaos was not from short duration: For the day before yesterday flight AI 137 to of Los Angeles main headers only last night against 19 o'clock, planned at 14 o'clock, off. With not less than 29 hours of delay.

The day before yesterday for Sunday the actually planned flight was first started with 21 hours delay after Delhi under the number AI 136 - after the takeoff it returned nevertheless briefly to Frankfurt. “For the today's lot fishing rod it flight the same airplane is intended, which had yesterday problems”, meant it yesterday with air India. “We do not have Ersatzmaschinen.” And one grants smallloud: “After such delays it can take one week, to the flight plan is again kept.”

Reason for the forced return was a striking safety gap the day before yesterday during the dispatching to Frankfurt airport. The history of this incident reads itself like the film script for a Tragikomödie.

“We look for urgently two German passengers”

After the jumbo jet was finally ready for launch jet at noon, the cab personnel noticed a problem: Two transit guests made of of Los Angeles of coming flight had originally disappeared without trace - although their luggage had been already loaded into the machine. Clear case: So the 16 years old jet was not allowed to start. That regulates an European Union safety regulation from the year 2002 obligatorily on all flights from the community of states.

It took a further half hour, until the suit-cases of the customers not appeared were again stowed away unloaded and the containers. At 13.10 o'clock, scarcely 21 hours after the intended time of departure, main header the machine off. Straight ones had back-leaned the passengers brought in their seats and announced themselves nearly the first hour flying time behind itself, there the crew by announcement: “We look for urgently two German passengers.” It announced the names of the missed ones subsequently.


Full article in Editorial/Analysis section

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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_380 wrote:
Although its harsh...but its not gonna help against terrorism...a terrorist can even fly from Pakistan (if he originates from there) to DXB and use EK. So whats the big deal? Rolling Eyes

The issue has nothing to do with terrorism from what I gathered reading the posts on airliners.net. The EU safety committee will allow its 777 to fly into the EU bloc, not the 747s, a310s etc. As far as ‘safety concern’ goes, I haven’t read anything specific but it could include non compliance with airworthiness and safety issues, maintenance or documentation.

If it were because of terrorism they wouldn’t let 7 aircrafts fly then would they Very Happy
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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don’t believe it’s harsh or unfair. The EU safety commission must have some concrete proof of PK blotching up somewhere, and if they are indeed unsafe then a ban is fair.
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sri_bom
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) reportedly (23-Feb-07) faces a European Union ban covering most of the airline’s fleet (excluding seven new B777s), due to safety concerns. An official decision is expected within ten days. PIA operates to Britain, France, Germany, Greece, Italy and the Netherlands.

Source CAPA
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karatecatman
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main reason is this:
Musharraf will be talking to EU leaders if the EU banned Pakistan International Airline’s fleet from operating in the bloc. The EU is planningbanning all but 7 of PIA’s 42 planes from landing in the EU over safety concerns. PIA and EU air safety official have held talks over three days in Brussels over technical fitness of aircraft, airworthiness and other cabin specific issues. PIA ohas said that the airline will send a letter to the EU Air Safety Committee to clarify whether any such ban has been put in place.

An official, who did not want to be quoted, said the real reason was that the EU was looking at minimising the PIA fleet’s presence because of a recent surge in terrorism in Pakistan, says the BBC report.
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sri_bom
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: PIA update Reply with quote

Update on PIA Website:

http://www.piac.com.pk/PIA_About/pr_24Feb07.asp

Karachi, February 24, 2007: This concerns a news item appearing in a section of press quoting unknown EU sources from Brussels stating that they plan to disallow some of PIA flights to EU destinations in view of certain technical concerns. The remaining flights however shall continue to operate.

The factual position is detailed below for benefit of our valued readers:

The Air Safety Committee of European Union visited Pakistan during 12-16 February, 2006 and held professional – cum – technical consultations with PIA management. The consultation subject primarily concerned technical upkeep, airworthiness and well kept interior of Asian countries aircraft operating on European destinations. The committee expressed its satisfaction over PIA aircraft all operational and professional issues. It was followed by another meeting in Brussels during 21-23 February 2007.
Pakistan was represented by professional and technical experts from Public Sector Aviation Industry (PIA and CAA) wherein PIA put forth a range of operational data before Air Safety Committee of European Union to their satisfaction in terms of PIA aircraft technical fitness, airworthiness and other cabin specific up keep/maintenance issues. The committee appreciated PIA’s efforts towards maximization of its aircraft excellent maintenance standards and airworthiness. The committee however counseled PIA to modernize its fleet age according to latest technological advancement. Necessary refurbishment of PIA’s old aircraft is also in the pipeline as per EU standards.
PIA is unaware of any reported ban on its aircraft operations to EU destinations and is in constant touch with the concerned EU authorities besides seeking to fully protect PIA’s interest.
It may relevantly be mentioned that since 2004 PIA Engineering Department has been approved by European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) under their Part-145 regulations, which are considered the most modern aviation maintenance/safety standards. Currently PIA Engineering undergoes Quality Surveillance Audits by EASA Auditors twice every year. During past 50 years PIA Engineering has not only performed Heavy and Light Maintenance on foreign registered Aircraft under its international approval but also has supported many reputed Airlines in the establishment of their Engineering facilities.
PIA has been operating its aircraft with average age of 21 years which now reduced to 12 years by May 2007. PIA Engineering is concentrating more on Airworthiness and Safety issues of a segment of its fleet. PIA aircraft also operate on destinations in Europe where they undergo safety inspections by SAFA Inspectors (Safety Assessment of Foreign Aircraft Programmed). The principles of the program are simple and being implemented for all foreign (Non-European) Airlines landing at European airports.
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sri_bom
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pakistan International Airlines’ A310 and B747 aircraft have been banned from operating to Frankfurt by the German Government, citing safety concerns (Khaleej Times, 28-Feb-07).
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sri_bom
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has been informed by the European Commission it may only operate its B777 equipment to 27-member EU countries, effective immediately (dpa, 05-Mar-07). Dubai Department of Civil Aviation confirmed that PIA may continue its operations to Dubai without restriction.
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karatecatman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PIA is now beginning negotations with the EU. The deal is that PIA gets to replace its Boeing fleet with Airbus aircraft in an attempt to "appease" the EU.
First planned replacements are the 737s with the Airbus A320 family.
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatecatman wrote:
PIA is now beginning negotations with the EU. The deal is that PIA gets to replace its Boeing fleet with Airbus aircraft in an attempt to "appease" the EU.
First planned replacements are the 737s with the Airbus A320 family.


I don't think the 'appeasement' is going to work. The issue is of poor MX standards.
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the_380
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

himmat01 wrote:

I don't think the 'appeasement' is going to work. The issue is of poor MX standards.

Poor MX standards definately...but this gives an excuse to EU to force PIA to opt for Airbuses
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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_380 wrote:
...but this gives an excuse to EU to force PIA to opt for Airbuses

What makes you say that? I'm sure EU Safety Commission doesn’t ban airlines just to get them to buy airbuses, that’s ridiculous.

Besides, they banned the airbuses and allowed the 777 in.
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does the EU determine that the Mx standards of PIA is Inadequate.
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the_380
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:

What makes you say that? I'm sure EU Safety Commission doesn’t ban airlines just to get them to buy airbuses, that’s ridiculous.

Besides, they banned the airbuses and allowed the 777 in.

Wrt this by Kcm:
Quote:
PIA is now beginning negotations with the EU. The deal is that PIA gets to replace its Boeing fleet with Airbus aircraft in an attempt to "appease" the EU.
First planned replacements are the 737s with the Airbus A320 family.

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