Airliners-India.com

flightgearpilot · Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 711 Location: VOBL

Hi all,

Came back from GOI to BLR on sunday night as all afternoon flights were delayed due to Aero India (shucks, i really wanted to see the airshow from up there!)

One thing I have noticed in all the night-time flights is that it is next to impossible to locate an airport or runway. The runway lights are hardly visible and are marred by bright lights all around them -- especially in cities like BLR. Also, most Indian airports don't seem to have any moving beacons that direct pilots at the edge of runways. In fact, the airport area and the runway are often times the darkest patch in the sea of lights around. I've seen this in BOM, GOI, BLR, MAA and several other airports in India.

So what do pilots do if they need to do a visual landing during night time?

-FGP

PS: *sigh* when will SpiceJet offer direct flights between BLR and GOI? I'm sick of having to travel by DN on official trips because universities don't think very high of academicians.. Mad

DN reminds me of the push-and-shove we used to do in busses as students.

HAWK21M · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject:

Thats where your Nav Equipment come in handy,as Visual references are tough at Night.
regds
MEL
_________________
Think of the Brighter side !!!

flightgearpilot · Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 711 Location: VOBL

So in case of an emergency due to nav failure forcing the pilots to land visually, our airports seem to pose a huge risk..

Correct me if i am wrong; i remember watching the Nat Geo documentary on the IC814 hijack, where the pilots had almost landed on a highway in Karachi. Was that because they had to resort to visual cues for landing?

Suddenly i don't feel safe flying in the night anymore! Shocked

the_380 · Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject:

selecta · Member Joined: 24 Dec 2006 Posts: 813 Location: ORD

Although I can't speak on behalf of the big guys, I seem to find it easier to locate airports at nights.

You have a lot of visual clues such as rotating beacons at the airports, city lights which can guide you in the general direction of an airport plus they're are noted on your sectional map and ATC if you want vectors to the airport.
_________________

http://openflights.org/user/citrus

shivendrashukla · Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:37 pm Post subject:

Avijit is right in the case of IC 814.

Otherwise as I am aware, there are RADAR coverage nearby airports. In those airports where ILS is not availabe there are NDB and VOR approaches also.(Navigational) Alternatively, a pilot can request ATC for airport vectors, where ATC relies on radar and issues instructions to pilot so that he can align the aircraft with the runway. At about a distance of 15-20 NM from the airport the ATC asks the pilot for a visual contact with the airfield. If the answer is positive then only landing permission is given and the aircraft is allowed to descend from it's holding altitude and the aircraft makes a normal landing. Else ATC issues more instructions to the pilot so that he cn spot the runway.

Cheers
Shivendra

stealthpilot · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB

Night visual approaches actually aren’t that hard. If they’re vectored to final a pilot should have absolutely no problem landing (assuming the weather is good of course)

As Mel and Shivendrashukla mentioned, there are VOR/RNAV/NDB (I don’t know who still uses NDBs though) approaches and radar vectors (no chance in a busy terminal area). These approaches (almost always) line you up on final. Even if they don’t line you up, there WILL be some sort of ALS (approach light system) in place. If there’s no ALS, then you can’t do night landings.
These are non precision approaches and you transition to a visual approach when you have the runway in sight.

You mentioned that you can never see the runways, do you mean from the passengers seat? If that’s the case it’s a lot harder from back there, for one you can’t see in front of you and secondly you have no idea where the runway is. Maybe if you knew more or less where to look things would be easier. It’s certainly nowhere close to impossible Very Happy

Even with some sort of systems failure if the pilot more or less knows where he is he could land visually at night. The greatest fear would be the weather. I see what you mean about the ALS being hard to pick up with all the nearby roads etc, but as far as I know it’s usually not that much of a problem.

stealthpilot · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB

flightgearpilot · Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 711 Location: VOBL

Hey, nice to see so many replies; Thanks! Smile

VABBy · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 823 Location: DEL

AKLDELNonstop · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1066 Location: Auckland

flightgearpilot · Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 711 Location: VOBL

Oh yeah, my mistake.. It was indeed Lahore

-fgp

the_380 · Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject:

AKLDELNonstop · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1066 Location: Auckland

Boeing7xx · Member Joined: 23 Dec 2006 Posts: 477 Location: WSSS

Just to put things into perspective, in WW I and WW II, the pilots had nothing more than a compass, a gyro, throttle and the stick to navigate over waters and cities. That's pretty much all you need even today, if you know your nav well.

shivendrashukla · Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject:

justbala · Member Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1898 Location: Bangalore

CCJ was the first airport in India to have runway lead-in lighting system installed for night time landing.

Given the table top location of the runway and the hilly terrain around, it's otherwise dangerous while landy at night and in low visibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calicut_Airport

iflytb20 · Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:53 pm Post subject:

but it still is useless..CCJ is probably the only airport in the world where a Non-Precision Approach has a lower minima than an Precision aka ILS approach

aarbee · Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 328 Location: WAS/AMD