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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:00 pm Post subject: 126 aircraft deal: IAF to commence field trials in Apr-May09 |
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www.domain-b.com/defence/general/20090119_iaf.html
IAF to commence MMRCA field trials in April-May
19 January 2009
Bangalore: The Indian Air Force (IAF) will commence trials of six competing medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) in contention for a massive $11 billion, 126-aircraft contract sometime in April-May. This was revealed by IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major on Saturday.
"The technical evaluation of the MMRCA is almost complete. Hopefully, field trials should commence by April-May this year," the ACM said in his address at the annual Air Chief Marshal LM Katre Memorial Lecture here.
This begins the next phase of an extraordinarily long saga in which the IAF intends to purchase sufficient numbers of top-of-the-line aircraft which can replace an ageing fleet of Soviet era MiG-21 aircraft.
Six global aircraft majors, including MiG, Dassault, Eurofighter, SAAB Gripen, Boeing and Lockheed Martin submitted their bids in April 2008. The aircraft, in contention for the order, are the Russian MiG-35, Dassault's Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Swedish Gripen JAS-39, Boeing's F/A-18E/F Hornet and Lockheed Martin's F-16.
Under current industrial offset stipulations the winner will have to source, or re-invest, at least 50 per cent of the contract value through Indian industry or in India.
A request for proposal (RFP) for the 126 combat jets was floated in August 2007 and all those invited responded with their proposals by April 2008. Since then authorities have been studying the copious amount of documents submitted, which in the case of some bidders runs into as many as 10,000 pages. Even as all this impressive clerical activity is being carried out over the years, the fleet strength of the Indian Air Force has dwindled to historic lows.
ACM FH Major said the current fighter fleet was also being enhanced with an upgrade programme. "The Jaguars, MiG-27s and MiG 21-BIS have been upgraded with latest avionics and weapons systems. Similarly, the MiG-29 upgrade is underway and the Mirage 2000 upgrade will commence soon. The induction of the Sukhoi fighter (Su-30MKI) has been accelerated with the indigenous version from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) facility at Nashik."
The air chief also hoped the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme would gain momentum after initial operational clearance and induction of the aircraft into squadron service by 2010-11.
In the case of the IAF's helicopter fleet, a comprehensive modernisation programme was underway, with the Chetak and Cheetah choppers being replaced with 125 light utility choppers being acquired through a global tender. "The contract for 80 Mi-17 helicopters with advanced glass cockpits has already been signed. They will be inducted in phases from 2010 to 2013," the ACM said.
"We are processing a proposal to procure 22 attack choppers, which will be best in its class. We have signed a contract with HAL for 38 advanced light helicopter (ALH), including 16 armed versions with new Shakti engines and glass cockpits," ACM FH Major said.
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www.newspostonline.com/national/trials-of-multi-role-combat-aircraft-in-april-may-2009011726273
Trials of multi-role combat aircraft in April-May
Posted by hpandey in National
Bangalore, Jan 17 (IANS) The Indian Air Force (IAF) plans to conduct trials in April-May of six different medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMCA) being considered for its order of 126 fighters, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major said Saturday.
?The technical evaluation of the MMCA is almost complete. Hopefully, field trials should commence by April-May this year,? Major said in his address at the annual Air Chief Marshal L.M. Katre Memorial Lecture here.
The IAF intends to purchase the combat jets at an estimated cost of $10 billion to replace its ageing Russian-made MiG-21 fleet in phases. Six global aircraft majors submitted their bids in April 2008 for the lucrative order.
The bidders are the US aerospace majors Boeing with its F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Lockeheed Martin with its F-16, the Swedish Gripen, the French Rafale, the Russian MiG-35 and the Eurofighter Typhoon.
The selected bidder will have to re-invest 50 percent of the multi-billion dollar contract in India as part of the offset obligations mandated under the Defence Procurement Policy-2008.
The request for proposals (RFP) for the 126 combat jets was floated in August 2007 after the bidders responded to the air force request for information earlier.
Major said the present fighter aircraft fleet was being enhanced with the induction of newer and better platforms in face of the depletion due to obsolescence and regular phase out of the ageing aircraft.
"The Jaguars, MiG-27s and MiG 21-BIS have been upgraded with latest avionics and weapons systems. Similarly, the MiG-29 upgrade is underway and the Mirage 2000 upgarde will commence soon. The induction of the Sukhoi fighter (Su-30MKI) has been accelerated with the indigenous version from Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) facility at Nashik," Major pointed out.
The air chief also hoped the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme would gain momentum for the initial operational clearance and induction of the aircraft, christened Tejas, into squadron service by 2010-11.
In the case of the helicopter fleet, a comprehensive modernisation programme is underway, with the Chetak and Cheeta copters are being replaced with 125 light utility copters being acquired through a global tender.
"The contract for 80 Mi-17 helicopters with advanced glass cockpits has already been signed. They will be inducted in phases from 2010 to 2013. We are processing a proposal to procure 22 attack copters, which will be best in its class. We have signed a contract with HAL for 38 advanced light helicopter (ALH), including 16 armed version with new Shakti engines and glass cockpit," Major pointed out.
Indo-Asian News Service
Wild rumour that IAF has already made up its mind and that its going to be split equally between the Eurofighter Typhoon and Boeing's F/A-18E/F Hornet. India will keep Russia happy with just the Sukhoi-30 orders. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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www.domain-b.com/defence/general/20090119_rafale_fighter.html
France wants "fair competition" for IAF's MMRCA contender
Rafale news
19 January 2009
New Delhi: With the Indian Air Force chief, Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, indicating over the weekend that the medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) competition would now move into the next phase with field trials expected to commence sometime in April-May this year, France has now said that it hopes that its contender, the Dassault designed and manufactured Rafale, would receive "fair competition." Its concern was expressed through Jean-David Levitte, diplomatic advisor to the French president Nicolas Sarkozy who was speaking to reporters here.
France recently lost out on a contract for 197 military helicopters, due to "severity of rules" in India.
"We are participating in a competition ... We know there is competition and we know in India, competition is to be taken by the word," Levitte said.
"We were victims of the severity of these rules (in helicopter deal) last year. But we accept the rules provided all competitors are treated in same way. It is fair competition that we want," he said.
He also asserted that the Rafale was the best next generation option and would bag the deal if the competition was fair.
Developed by French defence major Dassault, Rafale is a twin-engined multi-role fighter aircraft and is designed for land-based and ship-based operations. It is now seeing active service in Afghanistan,
It is competing with the Russian MiG-35, the Swedish Gripen, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the American F/A-18 and F-16 fighters for the estimated $11 billion 126 aircraft contract. |
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shivendrashukla Member

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 783 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Typhoon?? Are you sure?? I heard that IAF was more interested in Raphael.
Cheers
Shivendra |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1268 Location: BOM
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:00 am Post subject: |
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The F-16 should be eliminated fairly quickly. This fighter first flew in February 1974 and was inducted in the USAF in August 1978 - which means that the design is already 30 years old. Even though there have been quite a few upgrades, the basic design is still ancient. Also, the Pakistan Air Force has F-16s and they would be quite aware of its abilities and limitations.
I am not sure if we should consider the Mig-35 too, considering the problems in sourcing spares, etc from the Russians. _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! |
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Kabir Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 345 Location: DEL
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:35 am Post subject: |
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F 16s are more likely to win. Typhoons and Raphael both should be technically out of IAF's budget.
But I think they should take this deal through ASAP. _________________ Kabir
India Correspondent
Airliner World |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1268 Location: BOM
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Kabir wrote: | F 16s are more likely to win. Typhoons and Raphael both should be technically out of IAF's budget.
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Any specific reason why the F-16 would hold an edge over the F/A-18 Super Hornet? The Grippen as I understand has a disadvantage as it is a completely new platform from a totally new supplier. The Mig-35 has yet to be built on a large scale.
However, the Mig-35 would have some commonality with the existing Mig-29s in the IAF and the Navy's soon to be inducted Mig-29Ks. Besides, HAL has the capability to manufacture the Mig-29 engines. So, fitting the Mig-35 into the IAF fleet would be that much easier.
Below is the link to a nice Wikipedia article about the ongoing competition to bag the IAF's 126 fighter aircraft contract.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_MRCA_Competition
- Vivek _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! |
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HamiltonAir Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 829 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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I would say that a split order would be fine. Already posted by KCM, a split order by F-18E superhornets and typhoon or the rafale would be great! _________________ HamiltonAir |
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shivendrashukla Member

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 783 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Kabir wrote: | F 16s are more likely to win. Typhoons and Raphael both should be technically out of IAF's budget.
But I think they should take this deal through ASAP. |
F-16's are not even being considered. It's going to be a split. IAF wanted Mirage 2000's but since the production line has been closed now, they are interested in Rafael now. Also Russian MiG 35 is also lagging because of the current stand off with Aircraft carrier deal. Most likely they will be getting another Radar order. Final purchase would likely to go up to 200 aircrafts.
Btw this has already been discussed here before.
Cheers
Shivendra |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1268 Location: BOM
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| shivendrashukla wrote: |
F-16's are not even being considered. It's going to be a split. IAF wanted Mirage 2000's but since the production line has been closed now, they are interested in Rafael now. |
So, the split is likely to be between which two aircraft? _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! |
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shivendrashukla Member

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 783 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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i really do not know now. Let the field trials commence probably then we will know for sure.
As for me, I will bet my money on Raphael's and F-18's.
Cheers
Shivendra |
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Kabir Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 345 Location: DEL
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Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm i don't remember but someone told me the F 16 IN will give the Hornet a tough run. _________________ Kabir
India Correspondent
Airliner World |
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Aseem Member

Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 1889 Location: YYZ
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| read somewhere that F-18s are underpowered....won't be surprised if Rafale are selected considering India's closeness to France and popularity of Mirage 2000 in IAF. |
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shivendrashukla Member

Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 783 Location: Mumbai, India
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Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kabir wrote: | | Hmm i don't remember but someone told me the F 16 IN will give the Hornet a tough run. |
The age of F-16's and the fact that PAF has them in their inventory is the main reason why it is out of race. F-18's are basically carrier based aircraft. This may go against them.
Cheers
Shivendra |
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Kabir Member
Joined: 24 Oct 2008 Posts: 345 Location: DEL
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: |
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Possibly, but Australia, Switzerland, Spain and the likes use them from land bases. _________________ Kabir
India Correspondent
Airliner World |
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stealthpilot Member

Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 1313 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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I don’t know much about the performance of these fighters, but America is offering the F/18E, which is the superhornet right? That’s probably the most potent carrier based weapon available (not to mention expensive). Can we afford 125 of them?
As much as I love to hear the Su31 take off and watch the cobra manoeuvre isn’t the problem with Russian aircrafts stealth- or lack of it? I hope the Mig 35 is a step in the right direction. Russian a/c have great power, great manoeuvrability but we don’t need that in tomorrow’s war.
Let's be clear, our national security threats are only our 2 neighbours. One has Russian hardware the other has old American and Chinese hardware. _________________ eP007 |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| stealthpilot wrote: | | Can we afford 125 of them? |
As Shivendra says, this 126 plane order may be stepped up to 200. And in all likelihood spilt equally.
Add to this another 140 aircraft in the making for the Su-30s.
Then come the LCAs!!!!
... the existing squadrons of Mig-29s, Su-30s!!!
... and then a large order for the Fifth Gen Ind0-Russian fighter. |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 763
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps the Eurofighter Typhoon to spread the cheer amongst all the participating European countries? although I think it will not be significantly better than the Su-30MKI. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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http://tiny.cc/zc1ai
FLIGHT GLOBAL
DATE:03/02/09
SOURCE:Flight International
India torn between East and West in multi-role combat aircraft contest
By Siva Govindasamy
At a time when defence budgets are shrinking or money is being diverted towards domestic welfare programmes in the face of a worsening global economic situation, India stands out as an exception.
New Delhi has allocated $30 billion until 2012 to modernise its armed forces, and former finance minister P Chidambaram promised when presenting the 2008 budget to India's parliament: "Any further amount that is needed for the defence forces, especially for capital expenditure, will be provided." That was before the global economic crisis became full blown. But India appears to be holding to its aims.
The defence ministry has taken him at his word, especially since it is no longer only reliant on long-time arms supplier Russia as it finally pursues a long-delayed and much-needed modernisation of its armed forces. The air force is a major beneficiary, with the ministry going ahead with a $1 billion order for six Lockheed Martin C-130J tactical transports in 2008, agreeing a $2.1 million deal for eight Boeing P-8I maritime patrol aircraft in January, and confirming upgrades for other aircraft in its fleet.
But it is the country's long-awaited tender for 126 new fighter jets that is attracting the most attention. The $10-12 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition is in the evaluation stage, more than 10 years after it was first mooted, and pits the world's leading aviation companies against each other in a fierce contest that could have long-lasting implications for both the customer and the suppliers.
RUSSIAN RELIANCE
"MMRCA is fascinating because it represents an enormous choice for the Indian air force and perhaps India," says Richard Aboulafia, vice-president of analysis at the Teal Group. "It is between continued reliance on Russian equipment with low purchase costs and high lifecycle costs, and a move towards Western equipment, which costs more to buy, but is less expensive to operate and more reliable in the long term."
The competition's original aim was to replace several hundred RSK MiG-21 light fighters that have been in service since the 1960s. The MiGs-21s have served India well, but they have also suffered from poor maintenance and their high crash rates led to the Indian press giving them the nickname "flying coffins". They were to have worked together with the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft, which was then in the initial stages of its development.
Since then, the original aims have been modified as bureaucrats dragged their feet, problems arose with the LCA programme, and the air force's strategic thinking changed. A projected fall in the air force's capability led to India reviewing the service's combat status in the 1980s and 1990s.
As a result, New Delhi began to retire its older aircraft, ordered additional Sukhoi Su-30MKIs, and began upgrading existing aircraft such as the MiG-21 and MiG-27, Dassault Mirages and Sepecat Jaguars. It meant a temporary fall in squadrons, but the defence ministry pushed for the MMRCA competition to go ahead - leading to the RFP in mid-2007 - and for the Aeronautical Defence Agency, which oversees the LCA, to increase its efforts to come up with an aircraft that the Indian air force will want.
Instead of choosing a light attack aircraft, the objectives of the MMRCA competition were modified to buy a fighter that would serve in between the Su-30s and the LCAs, which are now expected to begin entering into service from 2010.
The selected aircraft should allow the air force to project its power in the Indian Ocean and South China Sea, which meant that they should have a bigger range and additional requirements such as AESA radars. This will have major implications for the contenders, the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 Falcon, RSK MiG-35 and Saab Gripen.
"The competition includes lighter fighters such as the F-16, Gripen and MiG-35, and heavier twin-engined aircraft such as the Typhoon, Super Hornet and Rafale. The unit costs vary from $30-100 million, and that is likely to be a major factor," says a New Delhi-based analyst who is close to senior air force officials.
"The winner must also be able to operate with India's future fifth-generation fighter, whether that is the joint development with the Russians or even the [Lockheed] F-35. The capabilities of the Pakistani and Chinese air forces, which have also been inducting newer aircraft, will also be considered."
CONTENDER SHORTLIST
India's defence ministry says that it will issue a shortlist of contenders when technical evaluations and flight tests, which are going on now, are completed. "That is when the political considerations come into play as well. These are the best fighters in the market and it makes sense to evaluate all of them before making a decision. This probably makes it harder for the manufacturers, but this is to our advantage," says a second source who is also familiar with the evaluation process.
The contenders have little choice. Boeing and Lockheed Martin need overseas markets to keep their production lines open at home, The Eurofighter consortium and the Russians need to expand their reach beyond their captive markets, and this could be a make or break opportunity for Dassault and Saab to open a major export market.
The Russians, who have supplied over 75% of India's defence, remain confident their decades-long friendship will hold. Alexei Fyodorov, director-general of Russian corporation United Aircraft, says: "We have several trump cards - the MiG-35's superb performance characteristics and the fact that Russia and India share a long-standing partnership in strategic and political co-operation."
Moscow says that the MiG-35 is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter that will be powered by the RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines, and will suit all of India's needs. Given that it is the latest version of the MiG-29, which India already operates, Moscow contends that the costs will be lower and learning process shorter. In addition, Moscow is willing to transfer all of the aircraft's technology to Hindustan Aeronautics, which will licence-produce 108 of the fighters and has extensive experience with the Russians.
Some Indians look back to the US arms embargo in the 1990s, after their country conducted nuclear tests, and say that Russia is a more reliable long-term supplier. "Yes, we are getting closer to the Americans now. But we have satisfied them by buying the C-130s and P-8s. Fighters are an air force's backbone, and we can't be held hostage by America if there should be ideological differences," says a former senior Indian air force official. The Russians have played on this, saying: "The RSK MiG has always delivered the most advanced technology and platforms to India, which for various political and secrecy considerations were denied to other countries."
Others within the Indian defence establishment want to move away from the dependence on Russia. They point to past problems with Russian aircraft and say that reliability issues will persist. Bilateral relations have also became strained in recent years due to problems with the refurbishment of a used aircraft carrier that New Delhi bought, and unhappiness over the level of access India has had to the Russian fifth-generation fighter programme.
EUROPEAN OPTIONS
An acceptable option could be a European fighter. France would be an ideologically neutral option for India and Dassault has already sold Mirage fighters to India. The company says that India's experience with French fighters could result in a shorter learning curve and lower costs, and it promises a full transfer of technology, including source codes.
"When we talk about technology transfer, we mean full technology transfer and not in bits and pieces. The way we work, we first have to obtain clearance of the government before putting in our proposal. If we win the order, we can begin work on transferring technology from day one - unlike our competition," says Dassault Aviation's senior vice-president for military sales, JPHP Chabriol.
The inability to win even a single export order could work to the Rafale's detriment, and the aircraft's unit cost could be an issue. Chabriol says that the Indians have to decide what they want from the competition. "The Rafale is a twin-engined, heavier aircraft and in the same class as the Super Hornet and the Typhoon. The other three aircraft are lighter," he says. "The Indian air force has to decide whether it wants a heavy or a light aircraft. We are worried, we don't want a situation where the other three are RFP-compliant, but we lose out on the price differential."
Like the Rafale, the Typhoon is also an expensive aircraft. Unlike the French fighter, however, the fighter is operational in several countries and has had more than 700 orders, making it a mature programme. Eurofighter has also offered to make India a full partner in the programme, enabling New Delhi to manufacture the fighter in India and be involved in the production of future tranches.
"We expect a very tough international competition that will be steered through operational aspects and political as well as industrial criteria. However, we are optimistic when it comes to a comparison," says Matthias Schmidlin, director Eurofighter Campaign India. He adds that the Typhoon is at the beginning of its lifecycle, able to have national capabilities implemented in the future, and that New Delhi will get full access to all the technology.
SAAB PROMISE
That is also a promise made by Saab. New Delhi has been keen on the Gripen since it began the competition, and Saab is offering the Gripen IN, a variant of the Gripen NG that has a more powerful engine, higher payload, and upgraded avionics compared with earlier versions. Saab points to its experience in fulfilling offset requirements in countries such as South Africa, and says the Indians would get full access to the fighter without having to make compromises or a politically expedient choice.
"Gripen IN, the independent choice, is the only option that will fundamentally shift India's defence capabilities from a dependent technology recipient to one that is able to realise its ambitions of being an emerging global player in synergy with its regional superpower status," says Eddy de la Motte, director of Gripen International in India. "A wide range of state-of-the art weapons can be sourced from manufacturers worldwide, and gives the Indian air force freedom of choice by avoiding sole-source supply constraints."
US defence contractors, however, are optimistic about Boeing and Lockheed. Increasingly warm ties between the two countries, including last year's civil nuclear deal, have led to some commentators saying that this is one of the most crucial bilateral relationships around.
The New York-based Asia Society said last year: "India matters to virtually every major foreign policy issue that will confront the USA in the years ahead. A broad-based, close relationship with India will thus be necessary to solve complex global challenges, achieve security in the critical south Asian region, re-establish stability in the global economy, and overcome the threat of violent Islamic radicalism."
Lockheed is possibly in a trickier situation, given that it has sold the F-16 to Pakistan as well and the Indians are unconvinced that the fighter - despite its success in many countries and the upgrades to its capabilities - is what they really need. The company, however, reiterates that the F-16IN has similar abilities to the Block 60 F-16s that it is selling to the United Arab Emirates, and is much better than the Block 52s that Pakistan will acquire.
"The F-16IN is specifically tailored to meet Indian air force needs and is the most advanced multi-role combat aircraft in production anywhere in the world today. We have spent years assessing the needs of the air force and we believe it will not just meet but exceed Indian expectations," says Lockheed executive vice-president for aeronautics Ralph Heath.
To sweeten the deal, Lockheed is also offering India future access to the F-35 and the possibility of jointly developing fifth-generation aircraft. Pointing out that Lockheed is the main contractor for both the F-35 and the F-22, the only two fifth-generation fighters now in production, Heath adds: "We advocate the path of [India's] logical transition from F-16s to the F-35s, beyond the MMRCA requirements."
Some analysts believe the F/A-18E/F is an early favourite. Boeing's long-standing close relationship with India through its civil business and Australia's recent order for the aircraft certainly help. "Among the Western players, the F/A-18E/F has a strong chance. A strategic relationship with the US Navy is an attractive draw, and Boeing and [engine supplier] GE have a very strong presence in India. I'd regard the Super Hornet as the leading candidate," says Aboulafia.
LIFECYCLE COST
The F/A-18IN, the Super Hornet offered to India, is based on the F/A-18E/F flown by the US Navy and being built for the Royal Australian Air Force. "One of the concerns in India is the cost of owning and maintaining combat fighters over their lifetime," says Vivek Lall, Boeing IDS vice-president and India country head. "The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet offers a very attractive lifecycle-cost dynamic, since the fighter won't need a scheduled visit to a maintenance depot until it has clocked a minimum of 6,000 hours of flying time, and even well beyond that."
But the unit cost of each aircraft is likely to be high and the Indian air force will have to spend money to build its infrastructure from scratch. Its servicemen are also not used to US aircraft, and there are worries that the type is not as modern as the Typhoon, for example. Given that the Super Hornet is based on a naval fighter platform, there have also been questions about its suitability for service with an air force. Australia's order of 24 F/A-18s appears to have helped allay those worries.
There remains a perception that this competition is still up in the air. "The India media occasionally report that one contender or another has run into headwinds, but the defence ministry remains committed to issuing a shortlist only after the completion of technical evaluations and field trials. A decision, therefore, is not likely until later this year at the earliest," says one New Delhi-based observer.
More hand wringing is likely in the Indian air force and at the headquarters of six expectant aerospace companies in Europe and the USA before this procurement is resolved. |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1268 Location: BOM
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rutvij Member
Joined: 22 Feb 2007 Posts: 922 Location: Mumbai
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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Not reported!
India also getting ready locations in J&K, Rajasthan and South India to carry out all-weather tests, which are to start end-May. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| IAF has denied that Rafale is out of the race. Has called it a media fabrication and that everyone is very much in the race. |
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HamiltonAir Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 829 Location: Bangalore
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Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| karatecatman wrote: | | IAF has denied that Rafale is out of the race. Has called it a media fabrication and that everyone is very much in the race. |
Thats good news! Fingers crossed, my guess and my vote is for the Eurofighter and the rafale. _________________ HamiltonAir |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1268 Location: BOM
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 11:26 am Post subject: |
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France’s Rafale back in race for Rs42,000cr deal
After some high-level diplomatic intervention by France, its fighter `Rafale' has flown back into the race for the `mother of all defence
deals', the Rs 42,000 crore project to acquire 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft for IAF.
Rafale had earlier been ejected out of the race by the defence ministry for failing to respond properly in its technical bid towards the GSQRs (general staff qualitative requirements) drawn up by IAF.
"But since it was only paper-evaluation and the French company Dassault Aviation has now supplied the missing answers, the Defence Procurement Board has decided to allow Rafale to take part in the actual field trials,'' said a defence ministry official on Thursday.
Consequently, Rafale will now be part of the trials slated to begin in July-August, along with American F/A-18 `Super Hornet' (Boeing) and F-16 `Falcon' (Lockheed Martin), Russian MiG-35 (United Aircraft Corporation), Swedish Gripen (Saab) and Eurofighter Typhoon (consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies).
France obviously did not want to left out of what will be the largest global defence contract, pegged at $10.4 billion, under which 18 jets will be bought off-the-shelf, while the rest will be manufactured in India under transfer of technology.
There will be at least two sets of field trials conducted in summer and winter, with the six jets being flown in the snow-capped peaks of Leh, the scorching Rajasthan deserts (Jaisalmer) and the humid conditions of south India (Bangalore).
The race, of course, is actually quite a marathon. The commercial bids will only be opened, examined and compared after a shortlist is made of two to three top contenders following the extensive field trials and staff evaluation.
With the final negotiations to begin thereafter, the entire process is expected to take a minimum of two years before the contract is actually inked. IAF, of course, is desperate to induct the first lot of the new fighters by 2012-2013.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Frances-Rafale-in-race-for-IAF-deal/articleshow/4561801.cms _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! |
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Aseem Member

Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 1889 Location: YYZ
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Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| HamiltonAir wrote: | | karatecatman wrote: | | IAF has denied that Rafale is out of the race. Has called it a media fabrication and that everyone is very much in the race. |
Thats good news! Fingers crossed, my guess and my vote is for the Eurofighter and the rafale. |
Lets have some change this time. Lots of Russian birds in inventory already. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124341126785657703.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
MAY 27, 2009
IAF: Technical Evaluation of Fighter Jets Over
By NITIN LUTHRA
NEW DELHI -- The Indian Air Force Wednesday said it has completed the technical evaluation of six fighter jets for a contract that is estimated to be worth more than $10 billion.
"The technical evaluation report is now at the Ministry of Defence and we are awaiting their clearance," Air Force Chief Fali Homi Major told a news conference.
India's air force is seeking to buy 126 combat aircraft to modernize its ageing fleet of Soviet-vintage planes.
Boeing's F/A-18, Lockheed Martin's F-16 Falcon, the MIG-35 of Russian Aircraft Corp.'s MiG, Saab AB's JAS-39 Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Aviation SA's Rafale fighter jets are pitching for the contract.
"We expect the Ministry of Defence to clear it soon so that flight evaluation (field tests) can begin in two or three months after their approval," he added.
Air Chief Marshal Major said also that Dassault has been allowed to rejoin the bidding process. He declined to elaborate.
An earlier bid by the French aircraft maker was rejected by India last month "during the technical evaluation phase of the contract."
Rafale International is a grouping of French defense companies Safran SA, Thales SA and Dassault. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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www.business-standard.com/india/news/france%5Cs-dassault-targets-lockheed-in-combat-aircraft-deal/364074/
France's Dassault targets Lockheed in combat aircraft deal
Ajai Shukla
New Delhi July 16, 2009, 0:30 IST
The gloves are off in the competition to sell India 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 50,000 crore. Two days after Business Standard reported on the sudden replacement of Lockheed Martin India’s CEO, Lockheed’s French rival, Dassault Aviation — whose Rafale fighter is pitched against Lockheed Martin’s F-16 IN in the MMRCA tender — is contemplating asking the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) to disqualify Lockheed Martin from the tender. The reason: sources in Dassault allege that Lockheed Martin has illegally obtained access to classified documents relating to the competition.
Approached for details of Dassault’s decision, the company’s Indian representative, Pusina Rao, told Business Standard over the telephone from Paris, “Dassault executives are in discussions and will soon reach a final decision on what action it will initiate against Lockheed Martin. In any case, the French government will have the final word, since there are political repercussions involved.”
Rao declined to comment on how long it would take for Paris to approach the Indian MoD for action against Lockheed Martin.
Sources close to the MMRCA contract point out that tension has been growing between Dassault and Lockheed Martin since the end of 2008, when the Indian media reported that Dassault had been eliminated from the MMRCA contract because it had not fulfilled some of the technical requirements spelt out in the Indian tender. Weeks after the report — and apparently after French President Nikolas Sarkozy spoke to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh over the phone — it was announced that Dassault was very much in contention.
But Dassault believed that Lockheed Martin was responsible for those reports. Now, Dassault is determined to get back at Lockheed Martin, citing charges of corruption in clear violation of the guidelines in India’s Defence Procurement Policy-2008 (DPP-2008).
On Tuesday, reporting on Lockheed’s India CEO, Ambassador Douglas A Hartwick’s sudden recall to the US without the appointment of a replacement, Business Standard had quoted Lockheed Martin’s Asia Chief, Rick Kirkland, as saying that while Lockheed Martin had never possessed classified Indian procurement documents, the company’s US headquarters had written to the MoD in New Delhi seeking clarification over two “unclassified files” that had found their way into Lockheed’s possession.
The MMRCA competition is growing increasingly heated, with all six competitors — Lockheed Martin; Boeing; Dassault; Grippen; MiG; and Eurofighter — scheduled to produce their aircraft for flight testing by the Indian Air Force, turn by turn, starting this month.
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 763
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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More precisely, the "setting" seems to have been done  |
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HAWK21M Member

Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 6025 Location: Mumbai, INDIA
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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When will the results be out.
regds
MEL. _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! |
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vivekman Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1268 Location: BOM
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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| HAWK21M wrote: | When will the results be out.
regds
MEL. |
Sometime in 2010. Only the technical evaluations are over. The field trials are being carried out now.
- Vivek _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sent by email
AIRCRAFT MMRCA trials to begin in Bangalore next week
New Delhi, July 31
India’s quest to buy 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) will shift gear when the flight trials of the six global contenders will begin in Bangalore next week with US major Boeing’s warplane F/A-18 being the first contender.
‘‘F/A-18 will be the first contender to arrive in India for the trails that will begin in Bangalore next week,’’ top IAF officers said here today.
The US’ Lockheed Martin F-16s, French D’Assault’s Rafale, Swiss SAAB’s Gripen, European consortium EADS’ Eurofighter Typhoon and Russian MiG-35, the other five competitors for the USD 10-billion deal, will follow F/A-18, not necessarily in that order, for the first phase of the flight trials in India, they said.
After Bangalore, all contending aircraft will move to Leh for high altitude trials and to Jaisalmer for summer trials. ‘‘We are optimistic that the trails on Indian soil and conditions of all the six aircraft competing for the deal will be completed before April end next year,’’ the officers added.
The IAF would field a team of two test pilots each, who would carry out the flight trials in the three locations that the Air Force has chosen, they said.
‘‘As per the trial schedule, the first phase involved training of Indian pilots on these competing aircraft in the country of origin. The second phase is the flight trials on Indian soil and airspace. The third phase would be test of specialist weapons that the manufacturers would provide on the aircraft in the country of their choice,’’ they said.
***
A two-pilot team would test each of the aircraft, as there is a likelihood of overlap of the flight trial schedule of the six aircraft, the IAF officers said.
‘‘The idea is to complete the trials as soon as possible and hence we got four pilots trained on these competing aircraft,’’ they said.
India had floated the tenders for the MMRCA in August 2007 and the exhaustive technical evaluation of the six global manufacturer’ bids were completed early this year.
The 126 MMRCAs will replace the aging MiG-21 fleet of the IAF and help in curbing the recent trend of depleting IAF squadron strength.
IAF’s number of squadrons had gone down to an alarming 31.5 squadrons in 2006 following which the then IAF chief S P Tyagi had written to the government pointing out that there was an urgent need to procure fighters aircraft to maintain the force levels.
After the induction of British major BAE System’s ’Hawk’ Advanced Jet Trainers (AJTs) in 2008, the fleet strength of the IAF has increased to about 33.5 squadrons compared to the sanctioned squadron strength of 39.5 squadrons.
Defence Minister A K Antony had recently told Parliament that the IAF squadron strength would continue to increase till 2015 when the MMRCA induction is likely to start, but face a down fall for a couple of years, before going north wards again to reach a maximum of 42.5 squadrons by 2022.
Bangalore Gang has something to look out for! |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Russia to showcase Su-35, MiG-35 fighters at MAKS air show
RIA Novosti
Ruslan Krivobok |
MOSCOW, August 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's leading combat aircraft manufacturers Sukhoi and MiG will exhibit their most advanced aircraft, the Su-35 Flanker and the MiG-35 Fulcrum-F multirole fighters at the MAKS-2009 air show in Russia.
Over 711 companies, including 465 Russian firms, will participate in the biennial air show outside Moscow on August 18-23.
The Sukhoi company said it will also showcase its Su-32 fighter-bomber (an export version of the Su-34 Fullback aircraft to be put in service with the Russian Air Force) and the Superjet 100 mid-haul passenger airliner.
Overall, 1,449 exhibits will be on display, including 470 full-scale models.
MAKS bills itself as "a demonstration of the advantages and development trends of Russian science and industry in such high-tech areas as aviation, space, missile engineering."
Russia's state arms exporter Rosoboronexport has said military aircraft will continue to dominate the company's foreign sales in 2009, and will total about $2.6 billion.
***
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090813/155803391.html
Russia aims to start making MiG-35 fighters for India in 2013
NIZHNY NOVGOROD (central Russia), August 13 (RIA Novosti) - Production of MiG-35 multirole fighters offered for sale to India cannot start before 2013 or 2014, a Russian aircraft maker said on Thursday.
Russia's MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F), is a highly maneuverable air superiority fighter, which won high acclaim during the Le Bourget air show in France last year.
"We have begun testing the MiG-35 fighter for the Indian tender," said Alexander Karezin, general director of the Sokol company based in Nizhny Novgorod.
Six major aircraft makers - Lockheed and Boeing from the United States, Russia's MiG, which is part of the UAC, France's Dassault, Sweden's Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies - are in contention to win the $10 billion contract for 126 light fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force.
Sokol earlier said that the first two MiG-35 aircraft would be delivered to India in August for test flights prior to the award of the tender. In late 2009, Russia will conduct a series of flight tests with live firing for an Indian Air Force delegation at one of the testing grounds on the Russian territory.
The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior maneuverability and enhance the fighter's performance in close air engagements.
Moscow said if MiG-35 wins the tender, Russia is ready to transfer all key technology to India's Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. and provide assistance for the production of the aircraft in the country.
Nice way to tell us in advance!!!!
Defence Mantri has helpfully added that the tender will be based on strategic relationships as well. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Flight International has also said that the Mig-35 is very strongly placed to win the tender. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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www.business-standard.com/india/news/mod%5Cs-mixed-messages-in-medium-fighter-contest/366826/
MoD's mixed messages in medium fighter contest
Ajai Shukla
New Delhi
August 13, 2009
This weekend, two Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet fighters will land in Bangalore for flight trials by the Indian Air Force (IAF), an eight-month-long selection process, involving six different aircrafts, to zero in on a multi-role medium fighter for the IAF.
India’s defence ministry (MoD) has billed this Rs 42,000 crore purchase, currently the world’s biggest international arms tender, as also the world’s most transparent. The MoD declares that the tender document specifies every detail of what the IAF needs, and whichever company meets those requirements, at the cheapest cost, will walk away with the order.
But now, contradictory messages are emerging; the mantra no longer seems to be “a specified capability for the cheapest price”.
Instead, MoD and IAF officers are apparently telling vendors like EADS — which has offered the high-priced and high-performance Eurofighter — that extra performance will win extra points.
Bernhard Gerwert, CEO Military Air Systems for EADS, travelled last week to Delhi to assess whether it was worth spending millions of dollars to put the Eurofighter through flight trials in India. If Eurofighter’s superlative performance, superior in several respects than the Indian tender requirements, would win no extra credit, Gerwert was prepared to pull out of the competition.
But the MoD provided the reassurance he was looking for. A relieved Gerwert told Business Standard after his meetings, “The feedback that we have gotten after meetings in Delhi with the MoD and the IAF is that they will test more than just compliance with the tender. The IAF will take into account the performance excellence of each aircraft during flight trials.”
After the relieved EADS team departed from Delhi on 7th August, Business Standard again asked senior IAF officials whether a fighter that demonstrated outstanding performance during flight-testing would win extra credits.
The IAF’s answer was an unambiguous negative. “We will not be comparing the aircraft with one another. We have made out a “Compliance Matrix”, and we will only require each fighter’s performance to comply with what we have demanded in the RfP (Request for Proposals, or the tender). There are no extra points for having, say, 50% extra capability. Each contender just has to meet the IAF’s laid down requirements.”
This situation stems from the IAF’s unusually broad definition of a medium fighter. This contest has brought into the arena a range of aircraft, with significant variations in performance — from the 14-tonne, single-engine Gripen to the 30-tonne, double-engine Super Hornet.
At the end of the flight-testing next May, predict experts, the IAF might have four or more aircraft that comply fully with the MoD’s tender.
In that case, the cheapest bid will win, with the MoD evaluating costs on a “Life Cycle” basis. That includes all the costs over a 30-40 year life-cycle, adding the per unit purchase price to the costs of technology, indigenous manufacture, infrastructure, repair and maintenance, operating expenses, and a host of other hidden costs. The IAF calls it “Cost of Ownership”; this method of calculation is being adopted for the first time by India for a capital equipment purchase from abroad.
Western vendors, whose military equipment has traditionally had higher ticket prices, claim that the “Cost of Ownership” calculation will tilt the equation in their favour, especially when compared with Russian equipment that they accuse of being maintenance-heavy, demanding vast quantities of spares, and spending more time on the ground than in the air. |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:40 am Post subject: |
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BUSINESS STANDARD
The great Indian duel
Ajai Shukla
New Delhi
August 15, 2009
Six fighter aircraft are facing off in the world's toughest testing ground.
Over the last weeks, two Indian air force aces have busied themselves with what might well be the world’s most expensive video game: sitting at a simulator in the US and learning to fly one of the world’s most advanced fighters, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet. Trained on the simulator, they were strapped into the real thing, gunning the twin F-414 turbofan engines to hurtle into the sky at speeds touching 2000 kmph.
Through the coming fortnight, those pilots will test-fly the Super Hornet in India, scrutinising every aspect of its performance to decide whether it meets the air force’s requirements for a medium multi-role combat aircraft to defend Indian skies, and support Indian ground troops, over the next four decades. There are six contenders for this massive Indian tender for 126 medium fighters, an order worth some $11 billion dollars. Besides Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin has offered the F-16IN Super Viper; there’s the MiG-35 from Russia’s RAC MiG; the Rafale, offered by French company Dassault; the Gripen NG from Sweden’s Saab; and the
Eurofighter Typhoon offered by a four-nation European consortium.
Over the next eight months, four pilots will fly and fire all six fighters to evaluate which of them meet the stringent requirements spelt out in the air force tender. This duel has been in the making for eight years — that’s how long it has taken the defence ministry to frame its requirements, issue a global tender, and do a paper evaluation of the six responses that were received. Now, finally, the ball is in the air force’s court, to see how the aircraft perform in the air. Being tested first, over the next two months, will be the two American fighters and the Russian MiG-35. Then, after a five-month winter hiatus, the three European aircraft will be put through their paces.
The air force has assembled a team of its hottest top guns for evaluating the six fighters in the fray. Overseeing the entire testing process will be Air Commodore Rakesh Dhir, principal director, Air Staff Requirements at air headquarters in New Delhi. He will have two separate teams to do the actual flight-testing, the first of which will evaluate the two US fighters and the Russian aircraft, while the other will test the three European fighters in three types of terrain: humid Bangalore, the desert heat of Jaisalmer, and the freezing high altitude desert of Ladakh. Any failure could signal the end of a campaign that will set back each of the contenders around $25-30 million.
Two Boeing F/A-18 will land this weekend at Bangalore, the home of India’s secretive flight testing agency, the Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment. Like Boeing, each company plans to bring in at least two fighters, in case any one faces technical problems. Accompanying the fighters will be fully equipped maintenance teams to iron out niggles daily, after the Indian test pilots finish throwing the fighters around the sky.
After the testing in Bangalore, each team will travel for two days to Jaisalmer to test aircraft performance in the desert heat. During the Jaisalmer leg, each contender will also drop unguided bombs at a ground target placed in the Pokhran range. But the really high-tech weaponry — guided by radar, infrared or laser — will be tested in each aircraft’s home base. Switching on airborne radar is a strict no-no when there is the remotest possibility of it being recorded by a foreign country. An aircraft’s radar signal is as unique to it as a fingerprint is to an individual. Every major air force, India’s included, maintains a worldwide “library” of radar signals; aircraft in those libraries can be identified whenever they switch on their radar.
But the sting has been taken out of the desert trials; the summer is practically over. Months of defence ministry inactivity, caused by the general elections, has resulted in “hot weather” trials being scheduled in a balmy 35-40 degrees Centigrade, rather than the searing 50 degree heat of a real Jaisalmer summer. Officials from Eurofighter, which sailed through summer trials in the Saudi Arabian desert, grumble that the ministry lost an opportunity to discover the contenders’ vulnerabilities.
From Jaisalmer, the fighters will head for the trickiest part of the trials, to Ladakh. On the face of it, there isn’t much to do at Leh airport: each fighter must land with a specified load of weapons and fuel, switch off its engines and systems, the pilot must alight and do a quick visual check of his aircraft, during which the cold starts to seep into the aircraft components. Then he must start up the fighter’s engines and systems, without external help, and take off. Sounds simple, but this is the phase that is giving the contenders nightmares. At 10,682 feet, oxygen levels are so low that there is real danger of the aircraft engines not starting up after they are switched off. And, once started, the oxygen-starved engines will strain to lift the fighters off that short airfield, even with a reduced payload that would be child’s play at sea level.
A specially selected air force test pilot of the rank of group captain will head each of the two test teams. Flying in tandem with him will be another junior pilot; it will quickly become clear whether the fighter can be handled comfortably by a less experienced pilot. Each team will include a clutch of technicians: an avionics system engineer to check the on-board electronic warfare equipment; a flight test engineer for performance related issues; a maintenance engineer to observe each fighter before and after each sortie. Making up the rest of each eight-10 person team will be a logistician to evaluate how easily the spare parts and consumables can be kept flowing; technicians from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, where the fighter will eventually be built, and officials from certification and quality assurance agencies.
It will be a keenly watched duel not just in India but across the world — it isn’t everyday that a $11 billion tender comes your way.
A problem of plenty
TThe defence ministry rulebook that governs purchases reduces the medium fighter competition to three simple steps. Firstly, the air force specifies exactly the performance it wants from its proposed medium fighter. Next, it flies and evaluates all the aircraft on offer to see which ones meet all those requirements. Finally, the ministry orders the cheapest of those that qualify.
The most challenging of these steps is the first. Each detail of a fighter’s performance — the runway length it must take off in, its rate of climb, turning radius, maximum and minimum speeds, range of operation, weapons payload, radar pickup, and dozens of similar parameters — must be painstakingly quantified. Once those are down, step two becomes easy: the test pilots fly each aircraft, checking the parameters to see whether they match up to those that are laid down.
If there’s a hitch in the competition, it’s a problem of plenty. If aircraft companies are to be believed, there’s a good possibility that all six aircraft might qualify. That would make the price the final determinant. The cheapest aircraft — with costs calculated over its entire life of 30-40 years — will walk away with the order.
This situation has arisen because the air force has — to use an automobile analogy — set out to buy a Maruti-type car, but invited Rolls Royce, Jaguar, BMW and Audi to the bidding, along with Maruti and Hyundai. Four of the fighters in the fray (F/A-18, MiG-35, Eurofighter and Rafale) are expensive, two-engine powerhouses in the 25-30 tonne range. The other two (F-16IN and Gripen) are single-engine aircraft and, therefore, lighter (15-20 tonnes) and cheaper. And since avionics, sensors, radars and missiles are compact and light, the single-engine fighters are almost as combat-capable as their bigger rivals.
Experts agree that if the ministry plays by the rules, the Swedish Gripen — the lightest and apparently cheapest contender — will walk away with the contract. The single-engine F-16IN may be very close behind. The superior range and weapons payload of the heavier fighters will earn them no brownie points.
But the vendors fielding the twin-engine behemoths are confident of their chances. Admitting that their purchase price may be higher, they say that when the cost of ownership is calculated over 30-40 years, their lower maintenance and spare parts costs, and higher aircraft availability, will tilt the economics in their favour. And Eurofighter chief Bernhard Gerwert told Business Standard in Delhi last week that superlative flying and combat performance would definitely count. “The feedback we have got after meetings in Delhi with the ministry and the air force is that they will test more than just compliance with the tender,” he said. “The air force will take into account the performance excellence of each aircraft.”
The air force refutes this. Says a senior officer, “We don’t compare the aircraft with each other, we compare them with the tender requirements, filling in a compliance matrix.”
Amidst this uncertainty, and with billions at stake, the aerospace corporations have launched a media blitz to harness public and political opinion. Journalists, astronauts, corporate honchos, medal-winning athletes and politicians have been taken up for high-profile joyrides. NDTV anchor Vishnu Som has flown co-pilot on four of the six aircraft, more than any of the air force test pilots will be able to claim. The game is on. |
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Aseem Member

Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 1889 Location: YYZ
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Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| well well! if the heavies among the pack are able to show their punch and convince Ministry/IAF force and it makes long term sense, then why not!! |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?a=jiru4fbdjdd&title=Flight_trials_of_F_A_18_Super_Hornet_begin
Flight trials of F/A-18 Super Hornet begin
2009-08-17
The much-awaited flight evaluation trials of the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) that are vying for an Indian Air Force (IAF) order for 126 jets began here Monday with a pair of Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets - one of the six contenders - flying two sorties, an official said.
'Two Super Hornets flew twice for around 45 minutes from the (state-run) HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) airport, once in the morning around 10 a.m. and again in the afternoon,' a senior official of the air traffic control (ATC) told IANS.
The official, however, declined to reveal who piloted the twin-seater aircraft or reveal details of the flight operations, including ground tests. Boeing has taken the aircraft on lease from the US Air Force for the trials.
'We treat movement of any aircraft as routine. I can only say both the Super Hornets took off from our airport and landed safely after their sorties,' the ATC official said, requesting anonymity as he was not authorised to speak to the media.
The other aircraft in the fray for the IAF's $10 billion order are the Lockheed Martin F-16I Super Viper, the Dassault Rafale, the Saab Gripen, the Russian MiG-35, and the European consortium EADS Eurofighter Typhoon.
The IAF declined to comment on the day's trials.
'We have no information about the trials. You have to check with the bidding firms. We will, however, inform the media about the trials when we have the details,' an IAF spokesman told IANS from New Delhi.
'The trials have just begun. It is too early to comment or share details about the manouvres, envelope, speed, altitude and other flight details,' an IAF source said, declining to be named.
According to the source, the fighters were flown by Boeing test pilots with IAF test pilots as co-pilots.
'We are pleased to be given the opportunity to showcase the formidable capabilities of the F/A-18 Super Hornet to India and to demonstrate that this combat-proven strike fighter will inject advanced military strength into both the Indian Air Force and into India's defence aerospace sector,' Vivek Lal, India country head of Boeing Integrated Defence Systems (IDS) had previously said of the trials.
The trials were witnessed from the IAF's aircraft systems and training establishment (ASTE) complex, located at the HAL airport, by an IAF evaluation team and officials from the defence ministry, HAL, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and the directorate general of aeronautical quality assurance at air headquarters.
The IAF has formed two teams of two test pilots each for the flight trials, which will be conducted in three stages: pilot familiarisation, field trials and weapons systems trials. The third stage will be conducted in the country of manufacture.
The technical evaluation was completed early this year after the six manufacturers responded to the IAF's Request for Proposal (RFP) in August 2007.
The IAF plans to acquire 18 aircraft in fly-away conditions, with the rest being manufactured by HAL under a technology transfer deal. The aircraft are meant to replace the IAF's ageing fleet of MiG-21 that were first inducted in the 1960s.
Boeing IDS had flown in the two fighters, along with a midair refueller, to Bangalore Aug 14. Besides test pilots, the Boeing team consists of flight test engineers, technicians and officials dealing with the bid.
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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www.telegraphindia.com/1090818/jsp/nation/story_11372651.jsp
Political card in aircraft dogfight
- Makers of Eurofighter up the ante on the ground to beat American contenders in the race for $11-billion air force contract
SUJAN DUTTA
New Delhi, Aug. 17: The great duel in the skies for an Indian Air Force order that could top $11 billion for 126 fighter aircraft began in Bangalore today, but the real action is being worked out in boardrooms of aviation majors.
At least one of the six competitors in the race, EADS, is saying upfront that it will gift-wrap its offer of the Eurofighter Typhoon for the IAF with a “political package”.
“All such deals have a technical dimension as well as a political dimension,” chief executive officer of EADS defence and security, Bernhard Gerwert, told The Telegraph recently. EADS had flown Indian journalists to the Royal International Air Tattoo in Fairford, the UK, and to the German assembly plant at Manching last month to demonstrate the capabilities of the Eurofighter Typhoon.
“What that package will be is still being worked out. But an association with EADS means that India is associating with the governments of four countries in Europe and that can go a long way,” said Gerwert. The governments and the air forces of the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain collaborate to make the Eurofighter Typhoon.
EADS is upping the ante in the race for the IAF order because of a perception that the US, with its clout and the growing proximity of Indian and US military forces, could swing the deal towards one of the two American competitors —- the F-16 IN Super Viper made by Lockheed Martin or the Boeing F/A-18 E/F Superhornet.
Lt General Klaus-Peter Stieglitz, the chief of staff of the Luftwaffe, the German air force, was also forthright: “The political package has to be negotiated; as we did with Austria and Switzerland. But it is still quite early.”
The Eurofighter is a precious customer in Austria and is vying for an order from Switzerland for which the flight trials are over. The clinching of the End-User Monitoring and Verification Agreement between America and India is being seen by the competitors of the US as the latest symbol of the political closeness between the two countries and their militaries.
What the “political package” can be is yet to be defined. But EADS, at least, and the French government — which recently hosted a contingent of the Indian armed forces and the Prime Minister on Bastille Day — are convinced that it has to be a substantial concession. This could be, for example, a re-alignment of the European position on Jammu and Kashmir, bringing it closer to India’s stand. But no one is talking about that yet.
In Bangalore today, the IAF’s principal director, Air Staff Requirements at the Air Headquarters, Air Commodore Rakesh Dhir, began supervising the flight tests on the F/A-18 Superhornet.
Boeing Integrated Defence Systems has flown two US aircraft to the south Indian city that is also home to Hindustan Aeronautics and the Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment of the Defence Research and Development Organisation. This is one of the seven schools of its kind in the world, to which the IAF seconds its test pilots.
Two test pilots, a group captain and a wing commander, will take turns flying the Superhornet and, later in September, the F-16 and the Russian MiG 35. Two other top guns will put the Eurofighter, the French Rafale and the Swedish JAS-39C Gripen to tests.
The flight evaluations are scheduled to be completed by April next year, after which the IAF evaluation team will fly to the home countries of the manufacturers, or any other designated site, to test weapon systems and armaments.
The flight evaluation tests begin after the technical paperwork of each of the six contestants is found to be in order by the defence ministry. A senior officer at Air Headquarters said the aircraft would be flown out of Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh for testing in normal, hot and cold weather conditions.
The performance of each of the aircraft will be quantified for take-offs, sustained turns and tight turns.
Sample missions will be assigned to the aircraft for ground strike, maritime strike, air-defence/air-superiority, acceleration and climb performance.
“We might assign, for example, an aircraft to accelerate from 0.8 mach to 1.42 mach within a specified time (seconds),” the officer said. One mach is the speed of sound.
The evaluation will also assess systems navigation, radar abilities, self-defence suits, electronic warfare systems and the ability of the aircraft to carry extra load (weapons, bombs).
One of the requirements to evaluate the “multi-role” ability of the aircraft is whether they are capable of carrying and dropping big 2000-pounder bombs at designated ground targets.
“The tests have to be tabulated and the results brought out statistically,” said the officer.
After this, the IAF will ask for the MTBF — mean time between failures — to arrive at the cost of operating each of the aircraft over the period they are to be in service, an estimated 40 years. This is the first time that the IAF has adopted “lifecycle costing” or “cost of ownership” to conclude the expenses to be incurred on each aircraft.
This is primarily because of the IAF’s experience with Russian equipment, so far the Indian military’s mainstay. The top brass and the defence establishment adopted the cost-of-ownership method because they concluded that Russian equipment were cheaper off the shelf but more expensive in service life because of shortages in spares and back-ups.
A major concern of the competitors has been how the IAF will attempt to fix the cost-of-ownership of twin-engine aircraft like the Superhornet, the Rafale, the MiG 35 and the Eurofighter with single-engine aircraft like the Super Viper and the Gripen.
The single-engine aircraft will clearly be much cheaper. But air headquarters sources say the costs will also be offset against performance because twin-engine aircraft will be more powerful and are expected to be more versatile, if heavier.
Airbus versus Boeing battle again --- in military terms.
Russia is also getting ready to pour the vodka in million litres.
Wild rumour going around that it will be divided into 3 now. 42 Hornets, 42 Euros and 42 MiGs.
Boeing is also targetting the helicopter tender. |
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Aseem Member

Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 1889 Location: YYZ
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| karatecatman wrote: | www.telegraphindia.com/1090818/jsp/nation/story_11372651.jsp
Political card in aircraft dogfight
Russia is also getting ready to pour the vodka in million litres.
Wild rumour going around that it will be divided into 3 now. 42 Hornets, 42 Euros and 42 MiGs.
Boeing is also targetting the helicopter tender. |
that would mean 3 pilot trianing program and engineer programs, 3 kinds of spares, 3 technologies to transfer (forget about integration) and 3 long drawn negotiations.....I am sure IAF is going to go bonkers!!  |
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karatecatman Guest
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Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Sweden’s SAAB offers advanced radar with Gripen combat jet
New Delhi
Sep 9 (IANS)
The race for an Indian Air Force (IAF) order for 126 combat jets in a deal worth $10 billion just got more interesting with Swedish plane maker SAAB offering an advanced version of a state-of-the-art radar with its Gripen fighter and also the wherewithal to enable its programming here.
What we are offering is a second generation AESA (advanced extended search array radar) that incorporates a swishplate that enables it to rotate and considerably enhances its capabilities over the existing radar, Gripen International’s India director Eddy de la Motte told reporters Wednesday.
The radar will come with its software source code.
The software source code has been a sticky point, with at least two of the six manufacturers in the race for the IAF order, which could go up to 200 planes, expressing reservations on transferring this to India.
Without the code, the IAF would be dependent on the manufacturer who is selected for the order for programming the radar, thus impinging on the country’s national security, a defence analyst pointed out.
Listing the other advantages of the single-engined Gripen, whose IN version is currently on offer to be followed by the NG (next generation) version, de la Motte pointed to its low lifecycle costs, quick turnaround time, quick engine replacement time, advanced avionics and the fact that the IAF could install a weapons suite of is choice on the aircraft.
In terms of costs, including the life cycle cost, the Gripen is 50 percent cheaper that the other single-engined aircraft (in the fray) and 25 percent cheaper that the double-engined aircraft (in contention), the SAAB official pointed out.
While the IAF has already begun its flight evaluation trials of the six jets in the running, it is yet to resolve the contentious issue of whether it wants a single-engined or a twin-engined aircraft.
When the IAF first floated its Request For Information (RFI), it was looking for a replacement for its aging Soviet-era Mig-21, a single engined fighter.
Of the six aircraft now in contention, only two - the Gripen and the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper - are single engined. The other four - the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, the French Rafale, the Eurofighter Typhoon built by a European conglomerate and the Russian Mig-35 - are twin-engined.
The SAAB official pointed out that the Gripen was the only aircraft that provided the IAF the opportunity to select the weapons of its choice.
With the other manufacturers, the IAF will have to take the weapons the aircraft comes with. With the Gripen, the IAF can chose from the best that is available in the international market, de la Motte maintained.
The flight trials, being conducted in humid conditions in Bangalore, desert conditions in Jaisalmer and high-altitude conditions in Leh, will conclude in March 2010. Thereafter, the field will be narrowed down to two or three aircraft, after which the price negotiations will begin, with the first of the planes arriving in 2012-13.
Eighteen of the aircraft will be purchased in flyaway condition and the remaining will be manufactured by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) under a transfer of technology agreement. |
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