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Another case of exit door being opened (DN)

 
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Another case of exit door being opened (DN) Reply with quote

From: http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070206/asp/bengal/story_7356293.asp

Quote:
Airbus exit open

Siliguri, Feb. 5: A group of passengers flung open the emergency door of a Delhi-bound Air Deccan plane at Bagdogra airport to see “how it worked”.

Two were arrested and 11 from the Manipuri group coming from Guwahati were detained. The flight was delayed by two hours. The curiosity could have killed over 160 people had they done that mid-air, said the airport director.


Wow - pretty wierd! I think DN will now instruct the crew to hang around near the exit doors rather than sitting in the galleys.
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malQ
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good, keep "open seating" as the mantra, and more of this will happen.

I think DGCA needs to make it compulsory for airlines to allot emergency row seating only after "selecting" able, fit and coherent passengers at check-in.

Next some idiot will discover where the fire extinguishers are and try them out too.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DN really needs to revisit the "open seating" theme. The justification given by them recently in the media was that it helps "speed up the boarding process" - since everyone wants to be at the front of the queue to get good seats! What absolute bunkum, if that were true, seat allocation at checkin would mean people rush to check in exactly 3 hours in advance, and there would never be any last minute checkin!
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The flight was delayed by two hours. The curiosity could have killed over 160 people had they done that mid-air, said the airport director.


I don't think it is possible to open an exit in flight. I am surprised the airport director is not aware about it and not surprised that the media has accepted his statement.
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karatecatman
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DN has a number of episodes like this.
Its just that may dont come to light. DN cabin crew who stay nearby says that pasengers drop into the galley, fiddle around, walk up to the cabin panel, "keep messing around " LCC on DN means passengers have the right to fly the way they want!!!
Crew just don't say anything. Too scared.
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Akshay
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
DN really needs to revisit the "open seating" theme.


What is open seating? Is it something like the system follwed in unreserved buses & trains where a person is free to sit on any vacant seat?
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akshay wrote:

What is open seating? Is it something like the system follwed in unreserved buses & trains where a person is free to sit on any vacant seat?


Yes, it's just like a ST bus.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Akshay wrote:
What is open seating? Is it something like the system follwed in unreserved buses & trains where a person is free to sit on any vacant seat?


Right on!
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Emergency Exit Doors cannot be opened in Flt due Pressurisation loads & most type Aircraft are fitted with Air-Ground sense Lock pins.

Pax should be Warned of the consequences & strict action will deter others from Experimenting.

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MEL
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crew320
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatecatman wrote:
DN has a number of episodes like this.
Its just that may dont come to light. DN cabin crew who stay nearby says that pasengers drop into the galley, fiddle around, walk up to the cabin panel, "keep messing around " LCC on DN means passengers have the right to fly the way they want!!!
Crew just don't say anything. Too scared.


Thats pathetic !
What are they "too scared" of?

aM
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the_380
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe.....wow passengers experimenting....what else will they try?
How to fly the aircraft???
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_380 wrote:
Hehe.....wow passengers experimenting....what else will they try?
How to fly the aircraft???

You'll hear kids screaming, "Mummy mujhe samne wali seat mai bethna ha."
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ABN397
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you know, Air Deccan generally does not allot seat numbers and there is a free for all. Real fun on a full A320, not so much on an ATR.
For some time the Air Deccan checkin counter at Delhi was doing seat allocation. Not sure if they are still doing that.
However, even if you call yourself a super low cost carrier, what is so difficult about allocating seats manually at the checkin counter? Since you anyway do have computers there (at least at the bigger airports), what is so difficult about allocating seats?
I would say that the free seating actually makes boarding longer, and certainly a worse experience.
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shivendrashukla
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok accepted that you are a LCC but then how much does it cost to allot seat to some one. This is precisely the reason i choose not to travel by Air Deccan because of the chaos that results everytime during boarding.

For heavens sake this is not a bus or unreserved train compartment. Even if we are paying less, we certainly are paying more than unreserved trains and ST buses!!!!

Shivendra
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe it or not, the DN management is proud of the fact that they have free seating. They actually seem to believe it speeds up boarding time. Silly buggers, these incidents seem to serve them right!
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Free seating should be Discontinued as it def creates chaos & Delays.
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MEL
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the_380
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At times even IC has free seating in the Economy class for some sectors but thats when load factors are pretty less. Again this is done rarely.
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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I am totally surprised how everyone jumped to blame the open seating policy?
I agree that open seating does create potential problems, but do you see passengers opening the emergency exits in other airlines with open seating?
Southwest and easyjet have an open seating policy, are passengers opening doors on their flights?

The passengers said they opened the door “to see how it worked”, do you think assigned seats would help solve that problem…… come on!

I think the concept of mandating assigned seating is tricky. I personally prefer assigned seats, but if DN (for whatever reason) thinks their way is faster let them do what they want. Open seating does not entice passengers to open doors, that is clear! Now there are crazy people who might push and shove and fight for seats, but I am sure there are other ways of handling that problem than mandating assigned seating.

If anything, the assigned seating rule should be created to avoid chaos, it has nothing to do with idiot passengers experimenting on doors.
malQ wrote:
Next some idiot will discover where the fire extinguishers are and try them out too.

And how does assigned seating solve this problem?
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikhil - the point about assigned seating is that the folks assigned to the exit/emergency rows (next to the doors) are supposed to be screened for their suitability for the role. They would typically not be first time fliers, and would not have the curiosity levels of these enthusiastic folks.
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Aiel
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivendrashukla wrote:
This is precisely the reason i choose not to travel by Air Deccan because of the chaos that results everytime during boarding.


Same reason here. I do not consider DN at all. Go Air and Spicejet are available for around the same fare, but have assigned seating.
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HAWK21M
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.Brief Pax about the rules.
2.Take action against those that break them.
3.Set an Example for the rest.
4.Allot the Emergency exit seats to Suitable persons only.

In Aviation its necessary to have certain things strictly spelled out.

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MEL
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the_380
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:

And how does assigned seating solve this problem?

Dude you do have a valid point out here .. let me add to this that the educational background of the people does make a difference to this.
However because of this free seating policy passengers create hell in the cabin for boarding ... situation is so bad that 3-4 cabin crews cannot control all of them ... hence they are forced to be seated till the hell turns silent.
If you had seat allotment you will not find such mess. And always notice that there is one crew during boarding quite near to the emergency exits. They can atleast stop the passengers from doing such a weird thing- 'experimenting to see how it works' ... lord we do have so many scientists here Rolling Eyes
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: How bout this punishment? Reply with quote

In this day and age, you have passenger profile stored in computer databases. The next passenger who does this is flagged in the Database and BARRED from flying Air Deccan. This could be shared with other airlines and this can weed out the miscreants. With 1.2 billion, you still have a lot of passengers without having to worry about losing a few customers.
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the_380
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But if the same pax takes the issue to the media of not allowed to be flown in DN then the media will exaggerate the matter in the favour of the passenger and blame the airline... they'll face hell lot of criticism ... that'll be bad
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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
Nikhil - the point about assigned seating is that the folks assigned to the exit/emergency rows (next to the doors) are supposed to be screened for their suitability for the role. They would typically not be first time fliers, and would not have the curiosity levels of these enthusiastic folks.

I agree to an extent. The problem is that as of now a 'suitable' person just has to be over a certain age, physically capable of opening the door and able to follow the crews instructions.
A question for someone with a law background- I'm not sure what the law is in India, but in the west I would think that the airline couldn’t discriminate between a first time flyer and an experienced one when it came to assigning a seat. A first time flyer might be calm and level headed and an experienced flyer could be panicky: how do you differentiate between the 2? Just because someone flies a lot, it doesn’t mean they better they are at handling an emergency. When it comes to 'curiosity' (opening doors), well that’s a lack of common sense, not merely a factor of first time flying.

I think I understand what you are saying Nimish, thanks for clarifying but I am still not totally convinced Smile There are 100,000 first time flyers who would never do anything this stupid and to stop them from sitting in an emergency exit row because of 2 morons... well I am sure there is a better way of handling this.

As Mel said, brief passengers about the rules! It might seem trivial but it has to be done. Then again unless you brief pax in the terminal, how do you stop some wise guy from walking into a plane, sitting down and opening a door? I guess it’s to be firm, take action and set an example.

ssbmat wrote:
The next passenger who does this is flagged in the Database and BARRED from flying Air Deccan. This could be shared with other airlines and this can weed out the miscreants.

I like that idea, if not barred then fined/ barred for a specific time period etc. Disorderly passengers need to be dealt with, and airlines need to share this sort of information. (is that completely legal?)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stealthpilot, I think what people are implying is not detailed profiling as such but just not giving the exit rows to a mawali looking person
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats the Indian Aviation Rule regarding offence in Air Rage.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKLDELNonstop wrote:
Stealthpilot, I think what people are implying is not detailed profiling as such but just not giving the exit rows to a mawali looking person

…. and is that not discriminating Laughing I don’t want to live in a country where they stop people from doing things because they 'look' like morons.
Stopping people from sitting in an emergency exit row because it’s their first time flying is not the best solution.
What if this guy who opened the door had flown before, but last time was sitting in an isle seat? It’s a long shot, but it cements my point.

I do understand what you guys are saying about first time flyers posing a greater risk. I agree, but a complete ban would be a knee jerk reaction (like we haven’t seen that in the aviation industry) and I believe there are better/smarter ways of dealing with this problem.

As trivial as certain things may seem (how to fasten a seatbelt etc) the airlines have to inform inform inform inform inform the passengers.
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AKLDELNonstop
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:

…. and is that not discriminating .


Certainly this is a form of discrimination but this sort of discrimination in some form exists everywhere.

In NZ for example, no one can wear hoodies and goto a public shopping mall for safety reasons. I think discrimination is wrong when its an unavoidable or compulsory circimstance. For example, discriminating against a black for being black is worng, but discriminating against a ragged and dirty person is not discrimination.

Say you in the US are running an upscale hotel, and a bunch of dirty looking rogues come in, what would your reaction be?

Cheers
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