Airliners-India Forum Index Airliners-India
Flickr Group & Facebook
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

India eyes US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk and F/A 18 jets

 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Airliners-India Forum Index -> Military Aviation & Space
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
texdravid
Member


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 971
Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: India eyes US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk and F/A 18 jets Reply with quote

Because of cost overruns and delays from the Russians, India may get the soon to be decommissioned USS Kitty Hawk for free, but must buy F/A 18 Super Hornets that go on the carrier.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/772agroh.asp?pg=1

I think it would be great for India to have this technology.
Good article, except they for the spelling of Indira's last name as Ghandi!
_________________
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan

Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...

Charter member, Indians against Obama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sammyk
Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2719
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kitty Hawk is certainly better than what the Russians are offering and it's ready to run, doesn't need any major modifications.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
shivendrashukla
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that explains USS Kitty Hawk's visit to India last yr. Good new for Indian Navy if we decide to have this...

Cheers
Shivendra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HAWK21M
Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 8132
Location: Mumbai, INDIA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not bad choice.
But I still feel we should not rely on only one arms distributer anytime,our Defence forces should have Aircraft from different forces in the field.
regds
MEL
_________________
Think of the Brighter side !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
shivendrashukla
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAWK21M wrote:
Not bad choice.
But I still feel we should not rely on only one arms distributer anytime,our Defence forces should have Aircraft from different forces in the field.
regds
MEL


That will be one big logistics nightmare i can tell you...

Cheers
SHivendra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Admiral Gorshkov" is supposed to be a real rustbucket!!!

Indian Navy team has now left for Russia to have a detailed physical inspection of the carrier after more Russian obnoxious demands.

India should also revive its plans to build its own aircraft carrier -- through the Cochin Shipyard.
Isn't it enough of hand-me downs and getting shortchanged?


"Jalashwa" is supposed to be another scandal! Guess we need a Tehelka on this.
Back to top
texdravid
Member


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 971
Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it is high time that India built its own quality planes, ships, and submarines. India should not be at the whim of any state, including the United States.

Until that day, however, India needs to stop buying Russian products, which are distinctly inferior to US weapons in terms of reliability, modernity, expandability, and accuracy. Buying a Russian weapon is like buying an Hindustan Ambassador whist someone else is buying a Honda/Toyota.

If India keeps buying, and of course, India is trustworthy, the US may give India one day a stealth bomber (B2), F117 Stealth fighter, or Abrams Tank.
_________________
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan

Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...

Charter member, Indians against Obama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sammyk
Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2719
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some Russian weapons are on par with US weapons. The MiG-29 & Su-30 for example.

A lot of their other stuff, I agree, is useless. Particularly the second hand defunct equipment that even Russia doesn't bother using.

Yes, the Kitty Hawk is second hand but it's in much better shape and in a class that was still in use until last year. Too bad they couldn't sell them a nuclear powered carrier.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
shivendrashukla
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya I agree. Some of the Russian products are at par with the American ones and some are absolutely rubbish. Su 30, Mig 29, Mig 25 T90 tanks are excellent examples of Brilliant russian products. Admiral Gorshkov is NOT.

India's own aircraft carrier will not be online till 2012-2015. I personally feel that India should go for Kitty Hawk, if offered. I do not think there's any problem with Jalshava.

Cheers
Shivendra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
texdravid
Member


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 971
Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What will the Kitty Hawk be renamed as?

I for one vote for the S.S. M.G. Ramachandran. It is high time that MGR got some credit for the absolutely great work he did for Tamil Nadu, after futhermore, his party is known as the ALL-INDIA ADK! He hardly has ANYTHING named after him in Tamil Nadu. Rolling Eyes

If that is not suitable, then name it the SS Rajinikanth or Kamalahasan or Shivaji, the Boss.

Since the Kitty Hawk docked off of Madras last year, it should be a Tamil name. Wink
_________________
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan

Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...

Charter member, Indians against Obama
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
HAWK21M
Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 8132
Location: Mumbai, INDIA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather than a politican....Lets give it a name that would be remembered for firepower....
That is presuming we get the carrier Smile
regds
MEL
_________________
Think of the Brighter side !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
vivekman
Member


Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 1897
Location: BOM

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

texdravid wrote:
What will the Kitty Hawk be renamed as?

I for one vote for the S.S. M.G. Ramachandran.


Sorry to nitpick - but shouldn't it be 'INS" Ramachandran as opposed to S.S?? Confused Question
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vivekman wrote:
texdravid wrote:
What will the Kitty Hawk be renamed as?

I for one vote for the S.S. M.G. Ramachandran.


Sorry to nitpick - but shouldn't it be 'INS" Ramachandran as opposed to S.S?? Confused Question



Couldn't resist this one!

Our aircraft carriers had the names:
INS Vikrant
INS Viraat
INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov's new name)

-- and if it's Kitty Hawk --- INS Vijaykant Wink

(Vijaykant seems to be giving sleepless nights to both Karunanidhi and Jayalalithaa)!
Back to top
HamiltonAir
Member


Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 937
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about INS Ashoka or INS Chandra Gupta Maurya? Last but not the least, how about INS Rajini Kanth Very Happy
_________________
HamiltonAir
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3257
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure the USS Kitty Hawk is better than anything the Russians may give us, and it is really generous on the part of the Americans to hand it to us for free. The million dollar question is - Do we really need it?
Aircraft carriers are important as they provide the ability to launch airstrikes over enemy territory which is out of range conventional bombers. This is a useful ability to have, provided the said territory is close to an ocean. The question is - How many such territories are we going to be attacking?
Face it, the only countries we are likely to attack are Pakistan and China, provided they attack us first.
Pakistan doesn't have the guts to start any kind of war with India, and even if they do we can pulverize them into the pages of history using our nuclear tipped missiles before thay can say 'uncle'. No need for any aircraft carrier here.
As for China, it is more likely to be a land war, rendering any aircraft carrier useless. Even if we decide to take out Shanghai or Hong Kong using our aircraft carriers , we have the task of getting our ships there first. An Indian aircraft carrier, with its flotilla of supporting ships sailing through the South China sea would be spotted by Chinese radars days before it can get to a place where it can do any damage. And again, we can also use our nuclear tipped missiles against the Chinese. So why an aircraft carrier?
So for all practical purposes an aircraft carrier is only a symbol of strength, a stamp of our presence, and a reassuring sign to our allies that we are there if they need us. As a machine of war, it is completely useless in the modern times.
We need to stop pouring money into conventional defence systems, and instead focus on the real dangers of terrorism, espionage and infiltraton. We need to improve our defences and patroling abilities on land and sea, and this can only be done by good surveillance technologies and fast intercepting vehicles or ships and not by aircraft carriers. The days when wars could be won by having lots of big battleships are long gone.

However, it does help if we have the ability to sneak into enemy waters, spy on them and if necessary, blow them to bits. This can be achieved not by the large and visible aircraft carrier but by a stealthy nuclear cruise missile submarine. A nuclear sub does not need refueling for years and, in principle, can stay underwater for all that time . As a war weapon, the nuke sub is unbeatable. It would be fantastic if the Americans can give us a couple of those.
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Pakistan doesn't have the guts to start any kind of war with India, and even if they do we can pulverize them into the pages of history using our nuclear tipped missiles before thay can say 'uncle'. No need for any aircraft carrier here.


Fraught with risks.
Chances of crucial parts of North India having retaliatory attacks with nuclear weapons exist. Nuclear destruction of India's bread basket in Punjab will be a disaster.

Attacking Delhi and areas before it will be disaster as well.

Pakistan can also do a Saddam Hussein --- like he set fire to oil wells in Kuwait and the desert and fled.

Pak. can nuclear attack large parts of the Himalayas and virtually destroy the lifeline of India -- the glaciers feeding the Ganga and Brahmaputra. Will be super disaster then with nuclear radiated water systems/ecosystem.

Coming to think of it, India has more to loose.

The_Goat wrote:
We need to improve our defences and patroling abilities on land and sea, and this can only be done by good surveillance technologies and fast intercepting vehicles or ships and not by aircraft carriers. The days when wars could be won by having lots of big battleships are long gone.


India addressing that by placing a satellite based espionage platform in space.
Back to top
The_Goat
Member


Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 3257
Location: South of France

PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatecatman wrote:


Fraught with risks.
Chances of crucial parts of North India having retaliatory attacks with nuclear weapons exist. Nuclear destruction of India's bread basket in Punjab will be a disaster.

Attacking Delhi and areas before it will be disaster as well.

Pakistan can also do a Saddam Hussein --- like he set fire to oil wells in Kuwait and the desert and fled.

Pak. can nuclear attack large parts of the Himalayas and virtually destroy the lifeline of India -- the glaciers feeding the Ganga and Brahmaputra. Will be super disaster then with nuclear radiated water systems/ecosystem.


Coming to think of it, India has more to loose.




Thanks for the clarification. Now would you mind going back to my post and try to understand it?

I mentioned: Pakistan doesn't have the guts to start any kind of war with India, and EVEN IF THEY DO we can pulverize them into the pages of history using our nuclear tipped missiles before thay can say 'uncle'. No need for any aircraft carrier here.

Any first strike by Pakistan will be of a nuclear nature. They know fully well that they cannot win any conventional war with India. They have mentioned this very clearly a number of times and it is clear as daylight that any response to such an attack by India would have to be Nuclear. I thought I didn't have to say it so explicitly on this forum of all places Rolling Eyes

Now you aren't advocating that we sit back on our asses if they strike us first, are you? Rolling Eyes

Karatecatman wrote:

India addressing that by placing a satellite based espionage platform in space.


and that has helped us reduce infiltration and terrorist attacks, has it? A satellite in space can tell how many jihadis are crossing the border into India, and where they are sitting and plotting terror attacks, and while they are taking a break, the satellite can be used to tell us how many Naxalites are training in the forests of chattisgarh? Rolling Eyes


Now can we come back to whether we really need an aircraft carrier?
_________________
I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Now you aren't advocating that we sit back on our asses if they strike us first, are you? Rolling Eyes .


Your interpretation!!

Lot of this missile firing business is anyway a lot of posturing. Both countries realise the consequences.

... The masterkey to the room that has Pakistani nuclear stockpile is increasingly going to be in America's pocket.

What should worry everyone is the rogue elements who have access to nuclear material in the breakway Russian confederations.

The_Goat wrote:
and that has helped us reduce infiltration and terrorist attacks, has it? A satellite in space can tell how many jihadis are crossing the border into India, and where they are sitting and plotting terror attacks, and while they are taking a break, the satellite can be used to tell us how many Naxalites are training in the forests of chattisgarh? Rolling Eyes


You must realise that fighting terrorism in India is also closely linked to the Indian political scene.

Don't have to elaborate, as enough documentation has been released (mainly by the Indian Army and the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses -- IDSA/Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, Israel) on how the fragmented nature of Indian politics is increasingly affecting the fight against terror viz-a-viz vote bank politics (Classic example would be the Indian Army and ULFA). You need to do a lot of close reading to understand the dynamics.
Examples are in the NEast, Kashmir and South India.

Give the military and paramilitary forces a free hand and see things change. But unfortunately, chances of this happening are slim.

A satellite based platform is to watch the borders, essentially to replace what the "Garudas" (IAF'S christened name for the Mig-25) were doing. Will also free up expenditure/manpower/equipment for the IAF as it increasingly gets into "jioint sensitive missions" in collaboration with ISRO/Israel.

The_Goat wrote:

where they are sitting and plotting terror attacks and while they are taking a break, the satellite can be used to tell us how many Naxalites are training in the forests


.. Anyway, with ISRO'S new satellite capabilities an upto 1m resolution is possible with the indigenous technology available. Should be able to pick minute details.

After the recent and brazen naxal attacks in Orissa in early Jan., the Orissa police's successful fightback was in coordination with IAF helicopters/sateliite data supplied by the ISRO.
(It was also after clearance with certain quarters in the Left parties.)

... also, the recent busting of sleeper cells in South India/Bangalore shows that the many forms of terrorism in India have gone a step further. Increasingly cyber-aided/sleeper cell based.

The_Goat wrote:

Now can we come back to whether we really need an aircraft carrier?


Pl. go ahead!

We do need one, preferrably brand new instead of hand-me-down junk.

... actually three --- one for each side of India Wink
(That's what the Navy bluewater master plan is aiming for anyway.)


Last edited by karatecatman on Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatecatman wrote:
The_Goat wrote:
while they are taking a break, the satellite can be used to tell us how many Naxalites are training in the forests of chattisgarh? Rolling Eyes


You must realise that fighting terrorism in India is also closely linked to the Indian political scene.

Don't have to elaborate, ... on how the fragmented nature of Indian politics is increasingly affecting the fight against terror viz-a-viz vote bank politics



More evidence in suport of this ... from the horse's mouth.

www.hindu.com/2008/03/03/stories/2008030374611700.htm

Ready for early polls: Bardhan

Quotes:

Calls for political talks to bring Maoists into mainstream

Communist Party of India general secretary A.B. Bardhan said on Sunday that the Left was prepared to face early parliamentary elections.

Replying to a question, the CPI leader called for political discussions to bring Maoists to the mainstream.

“Mao Tse-tung was a great follower of Marxism-Leninism. He applied Marxism-Leninism in the Chinese context. We admire him as a thinker and idealogue. Maoism should not be treated as a law-and-order problem in India. The movement started in Bihar and has now spread to about six States. Maoists should not be held at gunpoint. As Communists, we call for political means to bring them to the mainstream.”


Rolling Eyes
Back to top
shivendrashukla
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

karatecatman wrote:

Don't have to elaborate, as enough documentation has been released (mainly by the Indian Army and the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses -- IDSA/Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, Israel) on how the fragmented nature of Indian politics is increasingly affecting the fight against terror viz-a-viz vote bank politics (Classic example would be the Indian Army and ULFA). You need to do a lot of close reading to understand the dynamics.
Examples are in the NEast, Kashmir and South India.


Correct. Except Kashmir, NE and South India are under political will. On more than couple of occasions the Army had to let the top leadership of ULFA go due to lack of political will. Kashmir is totally different. It's more of our neighbouring country that's the issue.
karatecatman wrote:

Give the military and paramilitary forces a free hand and see things change. But unfortunately, chances of this happening are slim.


I am with you on this totally!!!
karatecatman wrote:

A satellite based platform is to watch the borders, essentially to replace what the "Garudas" (IAF'S christened name for the Mig-25) were doing. Will also free up expenditure/manpower/equipment for the IAF as it increasingly gets into "jioint sensitive missions" in collaboration with ISRO/Israel.


err... sorry but Garudas is IAF's commando team. There is no name for MiG 25 as it is supposed to be a top secret (SURPRISE!!!) Rolling Eyes

Cheers
Shivendra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivendrashukla wrote:

err... sorry but Garudas is IAF's commando team. There is no name for MiG 25 as it is supposed to be a top secret (SURPRISE!!!) Rolling Eyes

Cheers
Shivendra


Umm ... is it ... ummm ... Trisonics?
Back to top
shivendrashukla
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, 102 Sqdn TRISONICS. Based in Bareilley. Now has Su-30's.

Cheers
Shivendra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
karatecatman
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the prize? Wink
Back to top
shivendrashukla
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A ride in my Avtaar's F-18?? Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sammyk
Member


Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 2719
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shivendrashukla wrote:
A ride in my Avtaar's F-18?? Very Happy


That's an F-14 in your avatar. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Airliners-India Forum Index -> Military Aviation & Space All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Hosted by phpBB.BizHat.com