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Jet Airways News -- Part 15
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Aseem
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am getting the feeling that Indian market is not suitable for full-service carrier. AI is managing to hang on due to taxpayer's money. Lets have long haul budget carriers with non-fancy meals. What's wrong if crew has to be put up in Best Western. Only economy and business class is needed. IMHO Vistara should be wound up. Full service carriers of Europe and North America survive as they fly to inexpensive foreign destination. Airlines of India don't have that luxury.

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iah87
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full service carriers in India:

Main reason is Indians don't care about frequent flyer miles and affiliations they only look at the price. Jet was attracting a few corporate travelers but was not enough. Jet, AI and Vistara provide meals, but they still don't attract any more customers than Indigo and all the FSCs still provide full meals even on short flights, which is a recipe for disaster. Worldwide most airlines especially in US and Europe do not offer any complimentary meals except for a light snack and beverages.

AI technically should be doing great but they are just doing OK in domestic sector primarily due to government travel is required on AI.

In US there is a strong desire to stick to one carrier to earn status/miles but not in India. Also the airlines in India have made it very difficult to earn status anyway, especially Jet and Vistara, while AI's reputation has not been good so not many corporate travelers want to travel on AI inspite of their very attainable status goals.

And add to that Indigo and to less extent other budget carriers added so many numerous flights that fares fell to almost unsustainable levels, which Jet could not match in the long run.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lessors have already moved to de-register nearly fifty aircraft, while US EXIM Bank issued a notice to repossess all ten B777-300(ER) operated by Jet Airways. While the airline owns the Boeing widebodies, they were all acquired with EXIM Bank guarantees.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/77292-jet-airways-suspends-operations
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/77366-air-france-klm-adds-capacity-to-india-after-jets-collapse

Air France-KLM adds capacity to India after Jet's collapse

19.04.2019

Air France-KLM said it will add capacity to India to minimise travel disruptions for passengers originally booked on the group's commercial partner Jet Airways, which suspended operations on April 17.

"Depending on their operational capacities and needs, Air France and KLM Royal Dutch Airlines are increasing the number of seats available to and from India by operating higher capacity aircraft or increasing the number of frequencies," the Franco-Dutch holding said in a statement.

Air France-KLM added that it remains in close contact with Jet Airways and will assist all passengers who were due to travel on the Indian airline with Air France or KLM codeshares.

According to the ch-aviation capacity module, Jet Airways operated daily services from Mumbai Int'l and Chennai to Paris CDG. The French carrier operates daily flights from its main hub to Mumbai (flights are operated by Joon) and to Bangalore Int'l, as well as 5x weekly to Delhi Int'l.

Jet Airways also flew daily from Bangalore, Delhi, and Mumbai to Amsterdam Schiphol, while KLM operates daily to Delhi and 3x weekly to Mumbai.

All of these flights were covered by the codeshare partnership which also includes Delta Air Lines.

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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:
Full service carriers in India:

Main reason is Indians don't care about frequent flyer miles and affiliations they only look at the price. Jet was attracting a few corporate travelers but was not enough.


Oh yeah?

Why don't you tell that to the Lufthansas, Emirates, Qatar Airways, British Airways or the Air France-KLMs of the world who have absolutely no problem filling the fronts of their cabins with gold, silver or platinum card holding Indians on their flights to India?

Building a big business is as much about imagination and vision, as it is about finance, economics and marketing. Why don't we just accept the fact that other than a certain long-dead J.R.D.Tata, no other Indian business person has been able to have the vision, imagination or even the basic competence to run a quality, full-service airline in India? Most of them have been simply either driven by hubris or needed a outlet to launder their dirty stuff as the main reasons for starting airlines. Naresh Goyal is just another one of those.

What were Jet's managers doing when the company was running up debts like nobody's business? You don't run a debt of 8500 crores INR overnight. Didn't they have the brains or even the common sense to see what was coming? Even small time shopkeepers know how to manage debt and optimise their overheads. And these overpaid fat cats didn't have a clue?

In the end I feel only for Jet's 20,000 odd employees who haven't received their salaries for months. They put their futures and worked their asses off for a bunch of incompetent top brass, all of whom must have been well provided for.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry, I guess being in the US for a long time does not expose you to some ground realities.
iah87 wrote:
Main reason is Indians don't care about frequent flyer miles and affiliations they only look at the price. Jet was attracting a few corporate travelers but was not enough.
You will be surprised as to what JetPrivilege had achieved, and its strong loyalty base. EY went in for JP, first.
iah87 wrote:
Worldwide most airlines especially in US and Europe do not offer any complimentary meals except for a light snack and beverages.
Meals is not the only problem: it is only a small fraction of the issues. Start with the cost base and ATF. Then go to the management. Food does come in, but much further down.
iah87 wrote:
AI technically should be doing great but they are just doing OK in domestic sector primarily due to government travel is required on AI.
Not quite. You have to see the primary hub in action at DEL. You have to see the number of *A connections all over the network, to believe it. I see it with a great deal of regularity on my regular travels all around the place. And you will be shocked as to the number of corporate tie-ups even in the IC days, which have only got better. With two good CMDs and their teams, things have looked up like anything. What keeps it down is the incredible debt quagmire, which will perhaps take a lifetime to come out of, it not more. Second, the political meddling does not help one bit.
At the same time, most of the FFPs of Indian FSCs are not fantastic, admittedly.
iah87 wrote:
And add to that Indigo and to less extent other budget carriers added so many numerous flights...
Indigo's dumping capacity is an important factor: very true. However, please have a look at Indigo's fares. They are often not the least on many sectors, and in many cases, are more than the FSC ones.
Jet has had its own incredible problems, prime among which was the rampant mis-management.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Oh yeah?

Why don't you tell that to the Lufthansas, Emirates, Qatar Airways, British Airways or the Air France-KLMs of the world who have absolutely no problem filling the fronts of their cabins with gold, silver or platinum card holding Indians on their flights to India?

Building a big business is as much about imagination and vision, as it is about finance, economics and marketing. Why don't we just accept the fact that other than a certain long-dead J.R.D.Tata, no other Indian business person has been able to have the vision, imagination or even the basic competence to run a quality, full-service airline in India? Most of them have been simply either driven by hubris or needed a outlet to launder their dirty stuff as the main reasons for starting airlines. Naresh Goyal is just another one of those.

What were Jet's managers doing when the company was running up debts like nobody's business? You don't run a debt of 8500 crores INR overnight. Didn't they have the brains or even the common sense to see what was coming? Even small time shopkeepers know how to manage debt and optimise their overheads. And these overpaid fat cats didn't have a clue?

In the end I feel only for Jet's 20,000 odd employees who haven't received their salaries for months. They put their futures and worked their asses off for a bunch of incompetent top brass, all of whom must have been well provided for.
Brilliantly put, Sir. Indeed, one feels for the loyal employees: and yes, there is a very large number of them. Indeed.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The finance ministry has decided to waive the mandatory customs requirement that Jet's grounded planes in India must first be sent to the country of registration of their lessors and then fly them back to India before they can be used by other carriers. This will speed up lease of Jet planes to other airlines.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/jet-crisis-govt-eases-rule-to-moderate-fares/articleshow/68961225.cms
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of the day, the market reacts quickly to opportunities.

Jet may have had the makings of a great airline (it's long haul J class service was very polished, and it gave Indian flyers and foreign visitors a much needed alternative to the stodgy rot that IC/AI had provided for decades), but you don't rack up a $1.3 Billion debt overnight. This crisis was long coming. RIP Jet.

I hope the Indian legal system provides redress in court to the thousands who were denied salaries. They're the aggrieved parties in this horror.

Also, this is a telling moment for the Indian aviation sector. If, after Jet's collapse, other private entities and foreign carriers pick up the slack (as well as Jet's employees), it's a testament to the primacy of market forces. Which should make everyone question the existence of Air India and its even larger taxpayer funded debts. Indeed, here is no need for Air India in its current avatar. As a publicly funded enterprise, it too needs to vanish into the shadows of history. The Indigos, SpiceJets, Vistaras, etc., will move in, and pick up the slack. And if they can't compete, others will.
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iah87
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
iah87 wrote:
Full service carriers in India:

Main reason is Indians don't care about frequent flyer miles and affiliations they only look at the price. Jet was attracting a few corporate travelers but was not enough.


Oh yeah?

Why don't you tell that to the Lufthansas, Emirates, Qatar Airways, British Airways or the Air France-KLMs of the world who have absolutely no problem filling the fronts of their cabins with gold, silver or platinum card holding Indians on their flights to India?



There are who are loyal to certain carriers but they are in a minority.

I still stand by my statement that majority of the Indians don't care about frequently flyer affiliations at least for domestic air travel. Indigo, Spice, Go Air and AirAsia command more than 75% of the market and none of them have a frequent flyer program and majority of the Indians still choose the flights on cost only and sometimes for convenience (nonstop flights, time of the day etc.).

Even for flights outside the country, especially to Middle East and SE Asia the passengers choose on cost only.


I visit India often at least 2 to 3 times a year and interact with many who simply don't care to even collect frequent flyer miles on AI or EK. While I try to stick to AI for the Star gold benefits, many are not even aware of the status that one can get, even they travel internationally, some quite frequently. And that is true even for some of the Indians who live in US too.
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Aseem
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

found a very interesting video

https://dms.licdn.com/playback/C4E05AQFGYZklGQFI7Q/65f80252fc6e4e118e871569e1c91dfa/feedshare-mp4_3300-captions-thumbnails/1507940147251-drlcss?e=1556060400&v=beta&t=GOKRWi_alVIKQvDsK5-W0iCtNW-9ctSFuttJC8rrJnU

VT-ASJ
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:
The_Goat wrote:
iah87 wrote:
Full service carriers in India:

Main reason is Indians don't care about frequent flyer miles and affiliations they only look at the price. Jet was attracting a few corporate travelers but was not enough.


Oh yeah?

Why don't you tell that to the Lufthansas, Emirates, Qatar Airways, British Airways or the Air France-KLMs of the world who have absolutely no problem filling the fronts of their cabins with gold, silver or platinum card holding Indians on their flights to India?



There are who are loyal to certain carriers but they are in a minority.

I still stand by my statement that majority of the Indians don't care about frequently flyer affiliations at least for domestic air travel. Indigo, Spice, Go Air and AirAsia command more than 75% of the market and none of them have a frequent flyer program and majority of the Indians still choose the flights on cost only and sometimes for convenience (nonstop flights, time of the day etc.).

Even for flights outside the country, especially to Middle East and SE Asia the passengers choose on cost only.


I visit India often at least 2 to 3 times a year and interact with many who simply don't care to even collect frequent flyer miles on AI or EK. While I try to stick to AI for the Star gold benefits, many are not even aware of the status that one can get, even they travel internationally, some quite frequently. And that is true even for some of the Indians who live in US too.


I'm sure your statistical methods are beyond reproach, but the truth is that airlines care about premium passengers, and corporate travelers who tend to pay higher fares than those who buy the cheapest seats on the likes of Kuwait Airways or Aeroflot. And those pax are often very airline or mileage plan loyal.
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Aseem
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all this debate we forget that airlines need to keep their cost structure down. Once there, they can enjoy the liberty of offering liberal reward miles and other sops. These are the thing that can be reduced or withdrawn without much deliberation.

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luvleen
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jet Airways suitors find no slot to invest in

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/jet-airways-suitors-find-no-slot-to-invest-in/articleshow/68999353.cms

As expected, with planes being taken back and slots being re-allocated, there is hardly any value left in 9W. Most parties who submitted an EoI are expected to back out.
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luvleen wrote:
Jet Airways suitors find no slot to invest in

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/jet-airways-suitors-find-no-slot-to-invest-in/articleshow/68999353.cms

As expected, with planes being taken back and slots being re-allocated, there is hardly any value left in 9W. Most parties who submitted an EoI are expected to back out.


This is completely idiotic.

I don't know why the GoI does not freeze Jet's slots and refrain from allocating them to other carriers till such time that an investor is found. By reallocating slots, they are only ensuring that nobody will buy the airline and that the Indian taxpayer will have to kiss a goodbye to the 8500 crores owed by Jet.
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luvleen
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etihad concludes due diligence process for Jet Airways bid

As per this article, slots are being reallocated for a period of 3 months only. Doesn;t make sense this temporary allocation. On the other hand, EY may bid in conjunction with other potential suitors.

https://www.businesstoday.in/current/corporate/jet-airways-etihad-concludes-due-diligence-process/story/339894.html

Quote:
Abu Dhabi based Etihad Airways has concluded the due-diligence process before it places its financial bid for acquiring Jet Airways. The other two potential bidders- TPG Capital and the National Investment and Infrastructure Fund (NIIF) have also started their respective processes and are expected to bid jointly with Etihad.

SBI Caps last week had opened the window for potential bidders to examine the books of Jet Airways. The lenders now have set May 10 deadline for submitting the binding financial bids, the Hindu Business Line reported.

"Jet Airways has provided a data room where all the necessary documents, information and data related to the airline's assets, debt, costs, governance information and information on employee strength among other things have been opened up for the bidders," a source told the news daily. The bidding process according to the source is going ahead and none of the shortlisted companies as yet have said that they are withdrawing from it.

This comes at a time when the Civil Aviation Ministry is trying to calm the frayed nerves of potential bidders by saying that the vacated slots would be allocated to other airlines on an interim basis for three months and would be turned about once Jet Airways resumes operations.

While, the National Aviator's Guild (NAG), the pilot body of Jet, has also planned to exercise the provisions of the Industrial Dispute Act to continue with its demand for salary dues payment. This can be a precursor to NAG filing a plea with the National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT), the report said. The pilot body earlier this week had organised an open house in Mumbai to discuss the same.

An NAG committee member said that the pilot body so far has followed all the procedures specified in the act and has also escalated the letter written to the Labour Ministry. However, going to the NCLT would be the next step for it.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.reuters.com/article/boeing-results-jet/update-1-boeing-axes-210-orders-after-indias-jet-stops-flying-idUSL5N22666F

Boeing axes 210 orders after India's Jet stops flying

April 24

Boeing Co removed 210 aircraft from its order backlog and took an impairment charge over customer financing losses on Wednesday following the near-collapse of India’s Jet Airways.

The adjustment pushed the world’s largest planemaker behind European rival Airbus in the race for business this year as both companies grappled with cancellations that outweighed new orders in the first quarter.

Under recent changes in accounting rules, Boeing hives off orders that no longer meet its criteria for recognising revenue into a separate category, while defending contractual claims.

As a result, Boeing net orders for the first quarter slid into negative territory, with a total of minus 119 net orders after cancellations, despite a slew of new wide-body sales.

Airbus posted a negative total of 58 net orders over the same period.

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Sandy29
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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Etihad submits binding bid for Jet Airways ahead of deadline Reply with quote

Etihad submits binding bid for Jet Airways ahead of deadline

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/etihad-submits-binding-bid-for-jet-airways-ahead-of-deadline/videoshow/69270840.cms
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 12:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Etihad submits binding bid for Jet Airways ahead of dead Reply with quote

Sandy29 wrote:
Etihad submits binding bid for Jet Airways ahead of deadline

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/etihad-submits-binding-bid-for-jet-airways-ahead-of-deadline/videoshow/69270840.cms


Hmmm.... interesting development.

How are Etihad, as a foreign entity, going to deal with the fact that they cannot acquire more than 49% of Jet as per Indian laws? Or will any Indian party step up with the remaining 51%, given that Etihad is obviously interested?
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luvleen
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Etihad says it can only invest Rs 1,700 crore in Jet Airways

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/etihad-says-it-can-only-invest-rs-1700-crore-in-jet-airways/articleshow/69300155.cms

Quote:
The conditions put out by Etihad leave little scope for Jet Airways to pin their hopes on the Gulf carrier as its saviour

As a minority shareholder, Etihad can only bring in cash required to retain its stake of 24%


Apparently EY has put a non-binding bid with plenty of conditions
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747-237
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two former Jet Airways A330-300s, VT-JWS & VT-JWT have been ferried out of BOM today.
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the former Jet Airways 777-300ER, VT-JEQ (& VT-JEJ before that) parked at BOM, has now received new (Austrian) registration as OE-IIJ.

VT-JEJ -> To Gulf Air as VT-JEJ -> To Thai as HS-TKJ -> To Jet Airways as VT-JEQ -> To ? (after collapse) as OE-IIJ
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/hinduja-looks-to-team-up-with-etihad-for-jet/articleshow/69436467.cms

Hinduja looks to team up with Etihad for Jet

May 22, 2019

The automotive-to-banking Hinduja conglomerate is “evaluating the Jet Airways opportunity”, its spokesperson said on Tuesday.

If successful, it will mark the enterprise’s foray into the aviation sector. The group, owned by the Indian-origin Hinduja brothers, however, has a small presence in a related sector, that is hospitality. It is the co-owner of a five-star property in Mumbai and is in the process of opening a luxury hotel in London.

While details about Hinduja’s proposed bid for Jet are not known, the lenders to the cash-strapped carrier are desperate to sell the asset. Jet owes $1.2 billion to banks. According to banking sources, Hinduja has shown interest in partnering Etihad — a stakeholder in the airline.

Etihad has submitted a non-binding bid to the lenders offering Rs 1,700 crore. However, concern over liabilities had resulted in the Abu Dhabi-based carrier being not interested in increasing stake from 24%. Hinduja’s plan is to enable Etihad further its interest and address its concern and at the same time generate value for itself. Jet Airways’ shares rose 15% to close at Rs 151 on the BSE.

The lenders had stopped providing further funds to the airline, after which Jet was left with no option but to shut down. The ceasing of operations last month led to job losses and reallocation of valuable airport slots to its rivals, among other things. These developments further eroded carrier’s value.

The Hinduja brothers, ranked Britain’s wealthiest, control over 50 companies with a turnover of 40 billion pounds. Besides automotive and banking, the enterprise, founded during the pre-Indian independence era, is into IT, infrastructure, power, real estate, oil & gas, media, entertainment and healthcare. The group has a presence in over 30 countries and it employs over 1.5 lakh people. In the past, the enterprise had looked at acquiring Air India, which was put up for disinvestment by the government.

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