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avbuff
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The_Goat
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 Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Air India to (re) launch SFO and YYZ in W15 |
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| avbuff wrote: | Air India to launch 3pw each to YYZ and SFO from W15 using a B777-200LR. Aircraft to be reconfigured by removing F, reducing J and take the seat count to 310.
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oh good. The LRs can finally end their sanyaas.
310 seats? Are they going to make it 3-4-3 in Y?
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jasepl
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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From 2 years ago, and still as true as ever:
| jasepl wrote: |  |
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four years free of jetya punti! |
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sumantra
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Air India to (re) launch SFO and YYZ in W15 |
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| The_Goat wrote: | | oh good. The LRs can finally end their sanyaas. |
| jasepl wrote: | | From 2 years ago, and still as true as ever: |
Hmm...sanyAs and sanDAs
Ojas and Ameya: can you give your interpretation of this move?
- The B77Ls will finally be reconfigured into a more economic configuration, which is good news. It is not that AI cannot do this. The narrow-bodies were reconfigured very quickly, to add more Y seats and reduce J.
- B77Ls for SFO: possibly the only route tailor-made for them. Non-daily: good thinking, on starting the route, to test the waters. There will possibly be more UA code-shares from SFO onwards. So, no one-stop to SFO via cities with fifth freedom rights, such as HKG, BKK, KUL etc.
- B77Ls for YYZ: the route has been loss-making for all airlines, even the one-stop options. High demand, low returns route. So no one-stop for AI via LHR/BHX etc. Competition: AC with possibly the best aircraft for the route. The B789 Dream)liner, which as of now, AI may not acquire.
- The B77L utilisation would be nice, with 3 aircraft for a daily ULH route. But why not the three B789 Dream)liners, with the B77Ls in reserve?
- What are the chances of the B77Ws also going in for a reconfig? That would enhance AI's performance on its two LH routes where it does well, AMD-BOM-EWR and HYD-DEL-ORD
- I guess more code-shares with UA from JFK may be in the offing. JFK needs to be bolstered up, and not bleed as badly as it does today.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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ameya
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Considering that the 77Ls were idle this is good news. However, for the same sector, with more or less same pax, AC stands to make better revenue due to 789 vs 77L
I assume that both SFO and YYZ would be similar timed like JFK and ORD
By common sense - the YYZ flight would have connections from ATQ, though a quick connection in the evening on AT76 to IXC would help as well
As for SFO the most desired one should be BLR connector - interestingly thats the only city which does not have an international connector AFAIK
Lets see if the plan materializes !
B787 remain underutilized too !
I remember AC had planned one day on 788 and others on 789 which later shifted to 789 all days.
Would be interesting to see how 788 would stand in front of 77L for AI itself. May be its better to make more money than use a plane just for utilization purposes
AI international is a classic case of - High loads not necessarily translated into higher yields
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sumantra
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ameya wrote: | | Considering that the 77Ls were idle this is good news. However, for the same sector, with more or less same pax, AC stands to make better revenue due to 789 vs 77L |
That was my concern as well, Sir. The Dream)liner's economics, more so the B789, would finally give AC a stronghold on the route. A B789 Dream)liner should do much better. 9W seems to have moved out of YYZ: I guess I did not catch that, now code-sharing with AC, incidentally.
| ameya wrote: | | I assume that both SFO and YYZ would be similar timed like JFK and ORD |
Me too, Sir, since the North American bank of flights does wonders for connectivity at DEL. I just hope that the major bleeder (AI 101/2) does well with more UA feed. This flight alone bleeds the airline very badly.
| ameya wrote: | | By common sense - the YYZ flight would have connections from ATQ, though a quick connection in the evening on AT76 to IXC would help as well |
Well said, Sir. AI-R is utilising its AT6s (are there three at the moment? I seem to have seen two in operation: AIT and AII) reasonably, and the addition of this aircraft has translated to better economics for the airline, due to the AT7-6's superb economics. The DEL-ATQ has some good connections. AI will have to fight a pitched battle with 9W and SG for the short hop of an evening connector. Right now, 9W and SG rule the roost. The other competitor interestingly, are the luxury buses that run the 4 hour route. The IXC market sees great air demand even for the short hop, so I guess AI-R should not do too badly here.
| Ameya wrote: | | As for SFO the most desired one should be BLR connector - interestingly thats the only city which does not have an international connector AFAIK |
It has one 
AI 263/264 MAA-BLR-TRV-MLE and vice-versa [A320]
(BLR is missed one day of the week), from what I remember from my Mar'2014 study. It is actually interesting that there is no international connector to DEL. The pax numbers just do not justify this facility. With SFO on the radar however, I guess we should see one of the flights converted to an International connector. My guess is the current AI 403/404 on the Dream)liner will transform into an International connector, with the start of the SFO ops, much unlike the asymmetrical CCU international connectors, where a plane goes one leg on international, and the return on domestic (though the loads and yields are good, with the Dream)liners and A32S planes.
| ameya wrote: | | B787 remain underutilized too! |
I see a distinct trend to consolidate existing ops with the Dream)liner's quirks, at the risk of under-utilising the planes, rather than launch projected new routes.
[quote="ameya"]I remember AC had planned one day on 788 and others on 789 which later shifted to 789 all days. | ameya wrote: | well, Sir! The Wife's parents are booked on this on their way back from the US, in November.
[quote="ameya"]Would be interesting to see how 788 would stand in front of 77L for AI itself. May be its better to make more money than use a plane just for utilization purposes |
I still hope that AI utilise the B789 option, even though it has a heavy cost component, which AI can possibly ill-afford at the moment. Boeing may make it sweeter, after all the Dream)liner issues.
| ameya wrote: | | AI international is a classic case of - High loads not necessarily translated into higher yields |
Not everywhere, Sir: there are numerous examples of low loads and even lower yields! A classic case in example is the current AI 101/2 JFK operations. Low loads, and even lower yields. One of AI's (many) terrible bleeders.
Thanks for your analysis, Sir!
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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Jaysit
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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I thought they were selling off the 3 remaining 77Ls to EY. What happened?
Also, aren't their 77Ws also sitting on the tarmac sunning themselves most of the time?
Seems like they use 2 each on the EWR and JFK runs, 1 for DEL-LHR, 3 at most for flights to JED & RUH. That still leaves 4 on a permanent vacation. |
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The_Goat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Jaysit wrote: |
Also, aren't their 77Ws also sitting on the tarmac sunning themselves most of the time?
Seems like they use 2 each on the EWR and JFK runs, 1 for DEL-LHR, 3 at most for flights to JED & RUH. That still leaves 4 on a permanent vacation. |
They use 2 77Ws on the HYD-DEL-ORD run as well.
and 2 more 77Ws are going to be transferred to the IAF for VIP use.
Not too bad IMO.
The 2 remaining 77Ls were supposed to be sold first to EY, then leased to EY and now are going to be used by AI. They must be really confused, poor things.
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I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
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sumantra
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| The_Goat wrote: | | Not too bad IMO. |
There is more: some routes see an upgauge from a Dream)liner to a B77W. The second LHR flight in most of June was also on a B77W.
| The_Goat wrote: | | The 2 remaining 77Ls were supposed to be sold first to EY, then leased to EY and now are going to be used by AI. They must be really confused, poor things. |
I guess even EY realises that they do not really need too many of the ULH-specialised B77L. Putting the B77Ls to use on routes tailor-made for them, and that too, with a good re-config, is possibly good news for the Indian taxpayer. However, they also need premium traffic in the J class, which is easier said than done, given AI's far-from-stellar reputation.
Cheers, Sumantra. |
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indopaki
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Did they serve SFO before? |
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himmat01
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| indopaki wrote: | | Did they serve SFO before? |
Never.
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Caliguy
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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| I am glad for this. While I would have preferred Jet or Vistara fly Del-SFO, at least the nonstop option is now there. Also travelers need easy ways to reach the whole of India (not just the major cities). This allows an affluent US city with both business and VFR links to India to have that. As far as it being AI, to each is own. Personally I wish AI would bring back those senior citizen business fares from the US to India. It was a great way to price discriminate (i.e. not lose business travelers) and fill business class. I just don't get why they would rather fly those seats empty. 2 award seats and 2 senior seats would be a good way to get people in (they are doing the award route at least). My mom is super flexible on dates (usually). $3k on a nonstop to India in J with a lot of restrictions would suit her just fine. Seems like a missed opportunity. |
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iah87
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Caliguy wrote: | | I am glad for this. While I would have preferred Jet or Vistara fly Del-SFO, at least the nonstop option is now there. Also travelers need easy ways to reach the whole of India (not just the major cities). This allows an affluent US city with both business and VFR links to India to have that. As far as it being AI, to each is own. Personally I wish AI would bring back those senior citizen business fares from the US to India. It was a great way to price discriminate (i.e. not lose business travelers) and fill business class. I just don't get why they would rather fly those seats empty. 2 award seats and 2 senior seats would be a good way to get people in (they are doing the award route at least). My mom is super flexible on dates (usually). $3k on a nonstop to India in J with a lot of restrictions would suit her just fine. Seems like a missed opportunity. |
Recently my mother and I flew from India to US on a business class ticket which cost $3k on LH/UA. Even with the low business class fares, the business class section on LH from BOM to FRA was half empty (economy was nearly full). On the same day I saw good availability on business class award seats on AI (using Mileageplus). It shows that AI needs to be more competitive on the business sector with senior fares. |
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Nimish
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Anything further on AI's planned SFO/ YYZ services? Or have these routes died already?
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We miss you Nalini! |
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KALINGARAJAN
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Is AI planning to launch direct flights to CPH,ARN,MAD and BCN? Or have these plans been dropped entirely?? |
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Karan69
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Nimish wrote: | | Anything further on AI's planned SFO/ YYZ services? Or have these routes died already? |
Rumourmill suggests VT-ALH is being pulled out for a reconfig, lets wait and see [something all of us are used to by now] how far this rumour plays out
Karan |
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