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Well preserved C-46 discovered

 
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Well preserved C-46 discovered Reply with quote

A well preserved C-46 Curtis Commando has been discovered at IAF Saraswa.

Details:

http://www.warbirds.in/uttarpradesh/370-sarasawa-c46-commando.html

Quote:
Turns out that a C-46 Commando indeed exists today - the first one reported and the only one in India - and it was right under our noses - previously reported as a C-47 Dakota preserved at Air Force Station Sarasawa.

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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, what a discovery!

I never knew that this type actually saw service in India. It must have belonged to the USAAF's 1st or 4th Combat Cargo Group, which were involved in the India-Burma theater, 1941-1945.

The C-46 was a tough aircraft. Bigger than the DC-3 and with greater range.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There used to be an old rotting C-46 fuselage in front of T1-A: I wonder what happened to that. It looked like a C-46 from the distance, at least. Any one with any news about this frame?
Cheers, Sumantra.
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:
There used to be an old rotting C-46 fuselage in front of T1-A: I wonder what happened to that. It looked like a C-46 from the distance, at least. Any one with any news about this frame?
Cheers, Sumantra.


When was that? I was a regular user of Terminal 1A between June 2005 and October 2008. Where exactly was it parked?
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Picture Courtesy: Phillip Camp.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152719172748188&set=gm.587894214665884&type=1&theater
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

himmat01 wrote:
When was that? I was a regular user of Terminal 1A between June 2005 and October 2008. Where exactly was it parked?
Sir, it was at least there in the early 2000s. It was on a grassy area which could be seen from T1-A, to the right of runway 28, possibly straight along the line of sight of Gates 2 and 3. It was a rotting frame, and I remember the double-bubble twin-prop design. Could it have been some other plane?
On a different note, India saw the use of many C-46s, especially for the `Hump' operations, around 1944 or so, and Kunming was one of the target airfields.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

himmat01 wrote:
Picture Courtesy: Phillip Camp.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152719172748188&set=gm.587894214665884&type=1&theater
Sir, can you re-post this link, or get it elsewhere, and post a link from there? Or maybe, send it to me by email? I do not seem to have permissions to see the above picture.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sir, Just realised it's from a closed FB group. I have added you to the group pending approval from the moderator.
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:
There used to be an old rotting C-46 fuselage in front of T1-A: I wonder what happened to that. It looked like a C-46 from the distance, at least. Any one with any news about this frame?
Cheers, Sumantra.


You are not referring to one of these, are you? I know these are not C-46s but from a distance one can never say.

[/img]
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These were no where close to T1A. They were parked close to the 10 end of the rwy 28-10.

VT-AUT is ex BSF. It was in a flyable condition up to 1997.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

himmat01 wrote:
These were no where close to T1A. They were parked close to the 10 end of the rwy 28-10.

Himmat Sir, my reply is in point form, as I try to get my thoughts and nebulous memories, organised.
- First a big `thank you' for adding me to a group of some very well-known select individuals, about whom I have heard from a long, long time!
- It would have been August/September 2002. I did not maintain my flight logs then, so I cannot be sure. I remember seeing the frame from gates 2/3: it was in the grassy area just beyond the taxiway that leads to the threshold of the 28 end of the main runway. This was in the pre-photography-allowed days. I somehow remember the double bubble and the non-pointy rounded-over nose, and I can differentiate a C-46 from a C-47. Could it have been one of the ARC ones, in very bad shape? Now, these are somewhat nebulous memories, and I will not contest the views of so many illuminati on the group, who know much more about things than I do. From what I remember, the frame was in quite a skeletal state, berefit of the engines, and just the shell of the double bubble being around.
- I have a few other related memories, which I must ask you, and other enthusiasts on this list. When IGIA T3 was being constructed, in the early days, on the road diversion, a well-intact Il-14 was uncovered. I remember seeing this on the way to IGIA T2: it fell to the left, while heading towards T2 from the East. Which one is this: is this the one now at the Technical area at Palam?
- I have memories of seeing an Il-14 somewhere in a park in Timarpur. I had entered the perpendicular road from the Mall Road. Is it still around?
I do not roam around in Delhi as much as I used to, so it would be nice I could corroborate some of my memories of the 70s-80s-90s-00s with a respected Delhi'ite spotter like you! (Though I guess you may have been a Mumbaikar for most of the part)
Cheers, Sumantra.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Himmat Sir, this is approximately the place where I saw it:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Indira+Gandhi+International+Airport,+New+Delhi,+Delhi,+India&hl=en&ll=28.562568,77.116449&spn=0.007944,0.010514&sll=35.340121,25.138016&sspn=0.007378,0.010514&oq=Igia+&t=h&z=17

On a different note, the Google Maps picture of IGIA looks quite recent. There are two IAF C-17s in the picture, along with the...wait, what do we see at the threshold of runway 27? The first two planes, in the foliage? And...inside the IAF Museum: is the Tu-124K really there? A visit is definitely due there, very soon, then!
Cheers, Sumantra.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are getting interesting. A colleague was with me that day, but he is someone who cannot tell a HS-748 from a B748. Hyperbole aside, I had bragged to him that it looked like a C-46 Curtis Commando, which had possibly seen action in the Hump operations.
PVS Jagan Mohan's wonderful Warbirds site has the following encouragement for me:
wrote:
Palam airfield has a long history and probably has a few more derelicts that are not listed here. But till someone does a thorough survey of the airfield, the listing is not yet complete.

However, the same webpage
http://www.warbirds.in/delhi/newdelhi/35-derelict-aircraft-at-palam-airport.html
also mentions the following:
wrote:
These two aircraft are probably seen in Google Earth, though in different locations around the airfield.

This makes my claims of seeing a C-46 Commando, completely laughable, and it does my credibility, no good. It would be more like what member The_Goat says, below:
The_Goat wrote:
You are not referring to one of these, are you? I know these are not C-46s but from a distance one can never say.

and if it were indeed VT-CTV, I will end up with my big toe in my mouth.
I will also ask someone who may be in the know, and report this back on the forum.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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himmat01
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sumantra Sir, the TU124 is displayed in the public area of the museum. I have been inside it when it was in active service.

I have also been inside the Il-14 when it used to be parked inside the museum hangar. I recall the plush light blue sofa type seats.
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sumantra wrote:


This makes my claims of seeing a C-46 Commando, completely laughable, and it does my credibility, no good. It would be more like what member The_Goat says, below:
The_Goat wrote:
You are not referring to one of these, are you? I know these are not C-46s but from a distance one can never say.

Cheers, Sumantra.



Come on , sir. Anyone can make that mistake, particularly from a distance, with heat haze or bad light, it is always possible to mistake a C-46 for a C-47.

Actually I must make a correction to PVS Jagan Mohan's page. One of the HS-748s that is derelict in DEL is the legendary VT-DXH, which was one of the earliest HS-748 made in HAL Kanpur and was delivered to Indian Airlines in 1967. It saw service with IC, Vayudoot and finally with BSF.

That airplane should be in a museum. Unfortunately, it is rotting away along with VT-CTV as seen in this pic


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sumantra
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Anyone can make that mistake, particularly from a distance, with heat haze or bad light, it is always possible to mistake a C-46 for a C-47.
Sir, thanks for the understanding, but I am now even more confused that ever before. The first picture that you had posted was that of Charles Falk, circa 2004. The second (Wasim Choudhury) one, is circa 2006, and the condition of VT-CTV has not deteriorated as much as one would have thought it to be. Now, the bird I have memories of was in tatters: since most of its skeleton was visible. VT-CTV looks fairly intact even in 2006.

The_Goat wrote:
One of the HS-748s that is derelict in DEL is the legendary VT-DXH, which was one of the earliest HS-748 made in HAL Kanpur and was delivered to Indian Airlines in 1967. It saw service with IC, Vayudoot and finally with BSF. That airplane should be in a museum. Unfortunately, it is rotting away along with VT-CTV as seen in this pic
This is a piece of history Sir, thanks for sharing this (albeit sad piece of news) with us! I have read in detail about the choice of a small transport aircraft to be manufactured in India, and how and why the HS-748 was selected, and some of the initial teething troubles the type went through. Oops. Given the very large number of HS-748s still in action (and some, looking as stellar as ever, with well-maintained exteriors as well), when the IAF retires this type, many will indeed find a place in musea all around, but for the early builds, it is sad to hear of such pieces of news. Thanks for sharing this with us, Sir!
Cheers, Sumantra.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

himmat01 wrote:
...the TU124 is displayed in the public area of the museum. I have been inside it when it was in active service.
I have also been inside the Il-14 when it used to be parked inside the museum hangar. I recall the plush light blue sofa type seats.
Himmat Sir, you are one person who is not just lucky, you are a worthy recipient of the luck. I think you have seen the interiors of most of the Comm Sdqn propeller and rotary craft in those days, and even the B732 Rajdoots as well, if not more. I would love to hear your stories from that bygone era, when we meet!

Your post also confirms that the two planes close to the 27 end of the secondary runway are possibly the beautifully restored Caribou, as well as the Il-14 in VIP configuration. Shukla-ji had also hinted at the same in the DC-3 thread, but I was too dumb to have caught the point. Now, let me see how I can convince the other two not-so-aviation-fanatics in the family to visit the Museum soon!

And yes, thank you Sir, for sharing such lovely pieces of news with us. Yours is a heritage which anyone would feel extremely proud of!
Cheers, Sumantra.
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sumantra
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...this is just to follow up on the DC-3s. This is straight from PVS Jagan Rao's post on his FB group:
``I believe both Daks were rescued. One of them is near the flight kitchen (Coordinates for Google 28.548492, 77.109483 ).. the other was seen with a training institute in Delhi for an year or so before it dissappeared. I would think it still survives.''
Cheers, Sumantra.
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