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The Hindi - English Nonsense Again....

 
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: The Hindi - English Nonsense Again.... Reply with quote

Here we go round the.....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ensure-English-is-used-in-official-social-media-accounts-Jayalalithaa-writes-to-Modi/articleshow/36878908.cms

This is what I feared most about the BJP. There are too many Hindi chauvinists in there, and they were bound to kick up this silly row at some point.

Why these fools are so against English simply eludes me, particularly when most of their own children have attended English medium schools and some even studied abroad!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could very well be a small topic blown out of proportion. The issue is about the use of Hindi on social media. Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi, so what difference will this directive make? Maybe it is bourne out of apprehension that more such directives might follow, which may affect peace and stability.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Aseem"]It could very well be a small topic blown out of proportion. The issue is about the use of Hindi on social media. Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi, so what difference will this directive make? Maybe it is bourne out of apprehension that more such directives might follow, which may affect peace and stability.

VT-ASJ[/quote]

Using your same reasoning, would not all that are active on social media in the Hindi belt be familiar with English? Why not English alone then?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it personal communication it does not matter. But if it is official then Hindi, English, and Vernac should be permissible. And left to the discretion of the person who is posting. Much along the lines of signage at railway stations.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The Hindi - English Nonsense Again.... Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Here we go round the.....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ensure-English-is-used-in-official-social-media-accounts-Jayalalithaa-writes-to-Modi/articleshow/36878908.cms

This is what I feared most about the BJP. There are too many Hindi chauvinists in there, and they were bound to kick up this silly row at some point.

Why these fools are so against English simply eludes me, particularly when most of their own children have attended English medium schools and some even studied abroad!


Yup - needless and unfortunate. It is well understood even by the poor that English is the ticket to prosperity, yet these Hindi enthusiasts never seem to give up. They act as if Hindi is under threat of some kind and speak of English as some sort of colonial hangover. Perhaps in their nightmares bollywood starts to make movies in English (with plots that actually make sense, and where people don't break into songs every 5 minutes).
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Inferiority complex about Hindi, for that matter any other regional language is bourne out of lack of proficiency about English. If one is sound in English, there is no reason left to look down up one's mother tongue

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justbala
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aseem wrote:
. Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi
VT-ASJ


To begin with Aseem that is an incorrect assumption given that Hindi is not taught in schools in TN.Moreover the language used by the government isnt even the Hindi that most people are used to.The heavily Sanskritized Hindi is seldom spoken in real life and difficult for many to comprehend.

IMO Zee News and Bollywood with its brand of Hinglish has helped the cause of Hindi in India than the GOI.

Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:
Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy.


Huh - from what I know kids in North India have to learn 3 languages as well - and used to learn things like Sanskrit in the past, and now that's changed to French etc.

Back to topic - there's absolutely no reason to push Hindi in the country, it's not a uniformly spoken language. There was a tweet I read when this broke out - which said something like "I hope folks remember it was insistence on a single language/ culture which resulted in Pakistan and Sri Lanka breaking up" - why change the current status quo which works perfectly? If the Hindi speaking folks are so uncomfortable to learn English - why is it difficult to understand that folks may not find it easy to learn Hindi?

On another note -I have a tough time getting my own kids to speak in Hindi - and this is when we speak a lot of Hindi at home...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully the government acknowledges our diversity. With advances in technology it should only be easier.
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:
Aseem wrote:
. Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi
VT-ASJ


To begin with Aseem that is an incorrect assumption given that Hindi is not taught in schools in TN.Moreover the language used by the government isnt even the Hindi that most people are used to.The heavily Sanskritized Hindi is seldom spoken in real life and difficult for many to comprehend.

IMO Zee News and Bollywood with its brand of Hinglish has helped the cause of Hindi in India than the GOI.

Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy.


For unfortunate reasons, it is true that we need a foreign language glue to bind the country together. Instead of the flipflop over Hindi imposition, the Govt should get on with English as the language of official business and let the states decide on their own regional languages. Hindi is NOT national language of India, period.
Everyone should be free to use their own language as recognized by the Constitution.
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justbala
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
justbala wrote:
Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy.


Huh - from what I know kids in North India have to learn 3 languages as well - and used to learn things like Sanskrit in the past, and now that's changed to French etc.



Then make it 4 for me. I had Sanskrit from Classes 5 to 9.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:
Then make it 4 for me. I had Sanskrit from Classes 5 to 9.


Are you saying you had school simultaneously teach you 4 languages (in the same class)? I've never heard/ seen that before!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
justbala wrote:
Then make it 4 for me. I had Sanskrit from Classes 5 to 9.


Are you saying you had school simultaneously teach you 4 languages (in the same class)? I've never heard/ seen that before!


Yep. When I was in Trivandrum, - I had English, Hindi, Sanskrit and Malayalam. That is pretty common. Although I dont of anyone who picked up conversational Sanskrit after all those classes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer having 3 languages in school. 1st language should be English, 2nd is the national language Hindi and 3rd one will be the state language, which in my case it was Kannada.

I regret for not getting an opportunity to learn Sanskrit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was lucky that I had only two languages in school - English and Hindi. Learning Telugu was not compulsory in AP in the 1980s. Later on NTR changed all that. Of course, I did learn to speak Telugu very well, thanks to the numerous friends I had.

I took up Sanskrit during intermdiate (10+2, in case you didn't know). It was funny, as we wrote all the answers in English. No points for guessing how much Sanskrit I learned in those two years.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops... the mask slipped already! And we're going to have at least 4 years and eleven months more of this fascist nonsense, in some form or another. Mandir by multiple, lesser means.

Another, less scary theory making the rounds is that the prime minister wants people to use Hindi because English tends to challenge him.

That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches.

I for one am with those folks who reject the imposition of Hindi. My Hindi is definitely far worse than the PM's English. I can barely speak it - and I almost never have to. Reading and writing it is out of the question.

I don't know how it is in different parts of the country and how it was at different points in time, but growing up, I did not know a single Hindi person (that's what the northereners were called, and not as a derogatory term). Even today, there's not a single person I have to say a single word of Hindi to, with the exception of the Nepalese watchmen. And they too have managed to get a decent grasp of Marathi.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Oops... the mask slipped already! And we're going to have at least 4 years and eleven months more of this fascist nonsense, in some form or another. Mandir by multiple, lesser means.

Another, less scary theory making the rounds is that the prime minister wants people to use Hindi because English tends to challenge him.

That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches.

I for one am with those folks who reject the imposition of Hindi. My Hindi is definitely far worse than the PM's English. I can barely speak it - and I almost never have to. Reading and writing it is out of the question.

I don't know how it is in different parts of the country and how it was at different points in time, but growing up, I did not know a single Hindi person (that's what the northereners were called, and not as a derogatory term). Even today, there's not a single person I have to say a single word of Hindi to, with the exception of the Nepalese watchmen. And they too have managed to get a decent grasp of Marathi.


oh the pettiness in this post, I can almost see your urge to blurt out some anti-Modi crap, I mean, common, its been over a month now!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQlAJgf8Tc

enjoy. Still better than MMS and oh Rahul jiii oh


as far as the *actual* issue is concerned, i'm glad the govt has clarified / rectified their stance.
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:

That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches.



He doesn't have to know how to string together a coherent sentence. Since when did our politicians start writing their own speeches or speaking extempore? NaMo's Bhutan speech would have definitely been written for him by his secretaries.

It should have been in English, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches.


Do you even research before you type?? Razz

Please see/hear his speech after the PSLV launch at Sriharikota this morning. While he is certainly not going to get an English "professorship" anytime soon, his speech was much clearer, coherent and inspiring than his predecessor - "Maun"mohan Singh ever managed in his 10 year tenure...

So please - hold those horses (err... fingers) Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahahahahahahahahha!

Such a typical, expected response. Point to someone else and say they're worse, so your pet is automatically wonderful (in your mind anyway).

Talk about déjà vu.

And politician deification / worship? Really? Really really? How American of y'all. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahha!
Such a typical, expected response. Point to someone else and say they're worse, so your pet is automatically wonderful (in your mind anyway).


Again.... watch his ISRO speech...

The speech is fact. Your assumption is fiction. Nothing more nothing less!

End of story.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vivekman wrote:
jasepl wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahha!
Such a typical, expected response. Point to someone else and say they're worse, so your pet is automatically wonderful (in your mind anyway).


Again.... watch his ISRO speech...

The speech is fact. Your assumption is fiction. Nothing more nothing less!

End of story.


Hmmm... are we talking about the same speech? I have seen the PSLV-C23 speech in full and the only conclusion I drew is that he seemed distinctly uncomfortable.

I am no Modi basher - I cheered for him and I am glad he won (or rather BJP won) and I am fairly optimistic that he will deliver; but lets not assign to him abilities he does not have or powers he does not possess.

Its all moot now as he seems to have retracted the asinine Hindi usage memo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sshank wrote:
[

Hmmm... are we talking about the same speech? I have seen the PSLV-C23 speech in full and the only conclusion I drew is that he seemed distinctly uncomfortable.



He was, and also kept breaking into Hindi in between.

But what worried me a bit was as to why everyone was standing up while he delivered the speech. Was it out of respect, or were they actually prevented from sitting?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He doesn't have to know how to string together a coherent sentence. Since when did our politicians start writing their own speeches or speaking extempore? NaMo's Bhutan speech would have definitely been written for him by his secretaries.

It should have been in English, though.


Wait a minute now..Exactly what is the problem if Modi makes his speech in Hindi in international fora ??
I have never heard the Chinese premier speak English in any official function, nor the Japanese leaders. So why should we deride our PM for speaking in the language he is most comfortable with ? And what are interpreters for, anyway ?

While I do not favour imposing Hindi as a national language, let us get over with our prim-n-propah English fixation as well. So what if he speaks English with a distinct Gujarati tinge? ? Makes it all the more interesting..
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And there we go - the victim card's out again!

I don't see a single person above saying that the ability to speak English fluently and accent-free is a requirement.

But I do say that it is advantageous. And even expected of an Indian PM in 2014.

Who gives a toss what the Chinese and Japanese and Spanish do? None of those countries tout themselves to be English speaking (plus, that's just going back to the finger pointing I ridiculed above).

Also, since I brought up the topic in the first place, a re-read will reveal that:
1. I was poking fun at one of the reasons given for making the Bhutan speech in Hindi
2. I paraphrased a joke making the rounds about why he wants everyone else to speak in Hindi too

That he cannot speak English fluently is a known fact. Whether that matters or not is a whole other story.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:

Wait a minute now..Exactly what is the problem if Modi makes his speech in Hindi in international fora ??
I have never heard the Chinese premier speak English in any official function, nor the Japanese leaders. So why should we deride our PM for speaking in the language he is most comfortable with ? And what are interpreters for, anyway ?


English is not an official language in China, Japan, France , Germany or Spain. All these countries have a predominant native language that everyone is expected to use, and over 95 % of the population in these countries speak only in this language. This is not the case with India. That the Indian PM must speak in Hindi, a language that is spoken only by around 50 % of India's population, simply because leaders from other countries speak their native tongue, is the most asinine argument the Hindi brigade can come up with.

That said, I love NaMo's English. Not only is it probably better grammatically than what Hollande, Merkel or Xi Jinping can come up with but it also has a very Indian stamp on its accent, which makes it rather endearing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
ssbmat wrote:

Wait a minute now..Exactly what is the problem if Modi makes his speech in Hindi in international fora ??
I have never heard the Chinese premier speak English in any official function, nor the Japanese leaders. So why should we deride our PM for speaking in the language he is most comfortable with ? And what are interpreters for, anyway ?


English is not an official language in China, Japan, France , Germany or Spain. All these countries have a predominant native language that everyone is expected to use, and over 95 % of the population in these countries speak only in this language. This is not the case with India. That the Indian PM must speak in Hindi, a language that is spoken only by around 50 % of India's population, simply because leaders from other countries speak their native tongue, is the most asinine argument the Hindi brigade can come up with.

Whoa there.. dont count me in the Hindi brigade- I dont care if Modi makes his speech in Hindi or Gujarati or Telugu for that matter. It is absolutely not necessary nor is it a perceived advantage if you speak in English- unless one happens to be an Indian IT service company coolie.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
It is absolutely not necessary nor is it a perceived advantage if you speak in English- unless one happens to be an Indian IT service company coolie.


And you say you are not part of the Hindi brigade!! Smile

In a multi-lingual country like India, it is imperative there is a common neutral language of communication and you might not like to accept it, but English has played that role effectively in India.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
It is absolutely not necessary nor is it a perceived advantage if you speak in English

Knowledge of the English language is not advantageous? Which planet are you living on?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as majority of important documents are in English......it will have an Advantage .....
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, everyone should learn English in India, if only to provide laughs like this...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li83lbsc-gc

Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking English is most definitely an advantage in today's working world, but not the same way for diplomats/politicians?

IMO it doesn't matter much. Wear headphones and speak what you're comfortable in- the world will still understand one another. If a PM is more comfortable speaking another language OK, as long as it isn't some lame proving a point/making a statement by speaking Sanskrit type of thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:
I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!!
Balagopal, there is something incorrect here. As a kid growing up in Delhi, I we had both Hindi and Sanskrit at school, neither of which are my mother tongue. Most of us (with a different mother tongue) growing up in bigger cities are at least trilingual, and many of us know one or two more. In today's world, while we may not like a particular language, it is often advantageous to know a few more languages, than the other way `round. Yes, I do not appreciate a language being `imposed' on any one, after all, that is what the essence of the anti-Hindi agitation of Anndurai, had taken roots in. Personally, I am fairly comfortable in Hindi, and know the language well enough to enjoy literature in, I did not like it while learning it in school.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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