Airliners-India Flickr Group & Facebook    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  The Hindi - English Nonsense Again....          Airliners-India Forum Index -> Non Aviation View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:27 pm    Post subject: The Hindi - English Nonsense Again.... Here we go round the..... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ensure-English-is-used-in-official-social-media-accounts-Jayalalithaa-writes-to-Modi/articleshow/36878908.cms This is what I feared most about the BJP. There are too many Hindi chauvinists in there, and they were bound to kick up this silly row at some point. Why these fools are so against English simply eludes me, particularly when most of their own children have attended English medium schools and some even studied abroad! _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top Aseem Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: It could very well be a small topic blown out of proportion. The issue is about the use of Hindi on social media. Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi, so what difference will this directive make? Maybe it is bourne out of apprehension that more such directives might follow, which may affect peace and stability. VT-ASJ _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri] [/url] Back to top star*gold Member Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 187 Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:14 pm    Post subject: [quote="Aseem"]It could very well be a small topic blown out of proportion. The issue is about the use of Hindi on social media. Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi, so what difference will this directive make? Maybe it is bourne out of apprehension that more such directives might follow, which may affect peace and stability. VT-ASJ[/quote] Using your same reasoning, would not all that are active on social media in the Hindi belt be familiar with English? Why not English alone then? Back to top Aseem Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: If it personal communication it does not matter. But if it is official then Hindi, English, and Vernac should be permissible. And left to the discretion of the person who is posting. Much along the lines of signage at railway stations. VT-ASJ _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri] [/url] Back to top sshank Member Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 377 Location: NYC Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: The Hindi - English Nonsense Again.... The_Goat wrote: Here we go round the..... http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ensure-English-is-used-in-official-social-media-accounts-Jayalalithaa-writes-to-Modi/articleshow/36878908.cms This is what I feared most about the BJP. There are too many Hindi chauvinists in there, and they were bound to kick up this silly row at some point. Why these fools are so against English simply eludes me, particularly when most of their own children have attended English medium schools and some even studied abroad! Yup - needless and unfortunate. It is well understood even by the poor that English is the ticket to prosperity, yet these Hindi enthusiasts never seem to give up. They act as if Hindi is under threat of some kind and speak of English as some sort of colonial hangover. Perhaps in their nightmares bollywood starts to make movies in English (with plots that actually make sense, and where people don't break into songs every 5 minutes). Back to top Aseem Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Inferiority complex about Hindi, for that matter any other regional language is bourne out of lack of proficiency about English. If one is sound in English, there is no reason left to look down up one's mother tongue VT-ASJ _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri] [/url] Back to top justbala Member Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1896 Location: Bangalore Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:18 am    Post subject: Aseem wrote: . Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi VT-ASJ To begin with Aseem that is an incorrect assumption given that Hindi is not taught in schools in TN.Moreover the language used by the government isnt even the Hindi that most people are used to.The heavily Sanskritized Hindi is seldom spoken in real life and difficult for many to comprehend. IMO Zee News and Bollywood with its brand of Hinglish has helped the cause of Hindi in India than the GOI. Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy. Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: justbala wrote: Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy. Huh - from what I know kids in North India have to learn 3 languages as well - and used to learn things like Sanskrit in the past, and now that's changed to French etc. Back to topic - there's absolutely no reason to push Hindi in the country, it's not a uniformly spoken language. There was a tweet I read when this broke out - which said something like "I hope folks remember it was insistence on a single language/ culture which resulted in Pakistan and Sri Lanka breaking up" - why change the current status quo which works perfectly? If the Hindi speaking folks are so uncomfortable to learn English - why is it difficult to understand that folks may not find it easy to learn Hindi? On another note -I have a tough time getting my own kids to speak in Hindi - and this is when we speak a lot of Hindi at home... _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top star*gold Member Joined: 29 Jan 2009 Posts: 187 Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Hopefully the government acknowledges our diversity. With advances in technology it should only be easier. Back to top ssbmat Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710 Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:18 am    Post subject: justbala wrote: Aseem wrote: . Pretty much all those in Tamil Nadu active on social media must be already familiar with Hindi VT-ASJ To begin with Aseem that is an incorrect assumption given that Hindi is not taught in schools in TN.Moreover the language used by the government isnt even the Hindi that most people are used to.The heavily Sanskritized Hindi is seldom spoken in real life and difficult for many to comprehend. IMO Zee News and Bollywood with its brand of Hinglish has helped the cause of Hindi in India than the GOI. Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy. For unfortunate reasons, it is true that we need a foreign language glue to bind the country together. Instead of the flipflop over Hindi imposition, the Govt should get on with English as the language of official business and let the states decide on their own regional languages. Hindi is NOT national language of India, period. Everyone should be free to use their own language as recognized by the Constitution. Back to top justbala Member Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1896 Location: Bangalore Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:00 am    Post subject: Nimish wrote: justbala wrote: Opposition to the imposition of Hindi is something that I strongly felt while I was a kid - why is that I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Life would have been a lot simpler if we had simply adopted English plus mother tongue policy. Huh - from what I know kids in North India have to learn 3 languages as well - and used to learn things like Sanskrit in the past, and now that's changed to French etc. Then make it 4 for me. I had Sanskrit from Classes 5 to 9. Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 9757 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: justbala wrote: Then make it 4 for me. I had Sanskrit from Classes 5 to 9. Are you saying you had school simultaneously teach you 4 languages (in the same class)? I've never heard/ seen that before! _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top justbala Member Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1896 Location: Bangalore Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Nimish wrote: justbala wrote: Then make it 4 for me. I had Sanskrit from Classes 5 to 9. Are you saying you had school simultaneously teach you 4 languages (in the same class)? I've never heard/ seen that before! Yep. When I was in Trivandrum, - I had English, Hindi, Sanskrit and Malayalam. That is pretty common. Although I dont of anyone who picked up conversational Sanskrit after all those classes. Back to top G-BYGB Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: I prefer having 3 languages in school. 1st language should be English, 2nd is the national language Hindi and 3rd one will be the state language, which in my case it was Kannada. I regret for not getting an opportunity to learn Sanskrit. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos Back to top The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: I was lucky that I had only two languages in school - English and Hindi. Learning Telugu was not compulsory in AP in the 1980s. Later on NTR changed all that. Of course, I did learn to speak Telugu very well, thanks to the numerous friends I had. I took up Sanskrit during intermdiate (10+2, in case you didn't know). It was funny, as we wrote all the answers in English. No points for guessing how much Sanskrit I learned in those two years. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top jasepl Member Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Oops... the mask slipped already! And we're going to have at least 4 years and eleven months more of this fascist nonsense, in some form or another. Mandir by multiple, lesser means. Another, less scary theory making the rounds is that the prime minister wants people to use Hindi because English tends to challenge him. That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches. I for one am with those folks who reject the imposition of Hindi. My Hindi is definitely far worse than the PM's English. I can barely speak it - and I almost never have to. Reading and writing it is out of the question. I don't know how it is in different parts of the country and how it was at different points in time, but growing up, I did not know a single Hindi person (that's what the northereners were called, and not as a derogatory term). Even today, there's not a single person I have to say a single word of Hindi to, with the exception of the Nepalese watchmen. And they too have managed to get a decent grasp of Marathi. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! Back to top me111993 Member Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 3225 Location: MAA/AMD Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: jasepl wrote: Oops... the mask slipped already! And we're going to have at least 4 years and eleven months more of this fascist nonsense, in some form or another. Mandir by multiple, lesser means. Another, less scary theory making the rounds is that the prime minister wants people to use Hindi because English tends to challenge him. That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches. I for one am with those folks who reject the imposition of Hindi. My Hindi is definitely far worse than the PM's English. I can barely speak it - and I almost never have to. Reading and writing it is out of the question. I don't know how it is in different parts of the country and how it was at different points in time, but growing up, I did not know a single Hindi person (that's what the northereners were called, and not as a derogatory term). Even today, there's not a single person I have to say a single word of Hindi to, with the exception of the Nepalese watchmen. And they too have managed to get a decent grasp of Marathi. oh the pettiness in this post, I can almost see your urge to blurt out some anti-Modi crap, I mean, common, its been over a month now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQlAJgf8Tc enjoy. Still better than MMS and oh Rahul jiii oh as far as the *actual* issue is concerned, i'm glad the govt has clarified / rectified their stance. _________________ Causal Determinism : We are hardwired to need answers. The Caveman who heard a rustle in the bushes and checked out to see what it was, lived longer than the guy, who assumed it was just a breeze. - Greg House Back to top The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: jasepl wrote: That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches. He doesn't have to know how to string together a coherent sentence. Since when did our politicians start writing their own speeches or speaking extempore? NaMo's Bhutan speech would have definitely been written for him by his secretaries. It should have been in English, though. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top vivekman Member Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1897 Location: BOM Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:58 am    Post subject: jasepl wrote: That's also the reason why he addressed the Bhutanese assembly in Hindi. Not because he's so proud of the language and how delightful and assertive it was of him, but because he can barely string a coherent sentence together in in English, let alone make speeches. Do you even research before you type?? Please see/hear his speech after the PSLV launch at Sriharikota this morning. While he is certainly not going to get an English "professorship" anytime soon, his speech was much clearer, coherent and inspiring than his predecessor - "Maun"mohan Singh ever managed in his 10 year tenure... So please - hold those horses (err... fingers) _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! Back to top jasepl Member Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Hahahahahahahahahha! Such a typical, expected response. Point to someone else and say they're worse, so your pet is automatically wonderful (in your mind anyway). Talk about déjà vu. And politician deification / worship? Really? Really really? How American of y'all. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! Back to top vivekman Member Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 1897 Location: BOM Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: jasepl wrote: Hahahahahahahahahha! Such a typical, expected response. Point to someone else and say they're worse, so your pet is automatically wonderful (in your mind anyway). Again.... watch his ISRO speech... The speech is fact. Your assumption is fiction. Nothing more nothing less! End of story. _________________ Boeing makes planes. Airbus makes videogames! Back to top sshank Member Joined: 16 May 2007 Posts: 377 Location: NYC Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:08 am    Post subject: vivekman wrote: jasepl wrote: Hahahahahahahahahha! Such a typical, expected response. Point to someone else and say they're worse, so your pet is automatically wonderful (in your mind anyway). Again.... watch his ISRO speech... The speech is fact. Your assumption is fiction. Nothing more nothing less! End of story. Hmmm... are we talking about the same speech? I have seen the PSLV-C23 speech in full and the only conclusion I drew is that he seemed distinctly uncomfortable. I am no Modi basher - I cheered for him and I am glad he won (or rather BJP won) and I am fairly optimistic that he will deliver; but lets not assign to him abilities he does not have or powers he does not possess. Its all moot now as he seems to have retracted the asinine Hindi usage memo. Back to top The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:10 am    Post subject: sshank wrote: [ Hmmm... are we talking about the same speech? I have seen the PSLV-C23 speech in full and the only conclusion I drew is that he seemed distinctly uncomfortable. He was, and also kept breaking into Hindi in between. But what worried me a bit was as to why everyone was standing up while he delivered the speech. Was it out of respect, or were they actually prevented from sitting? _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top ssbmat Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710 Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Quote: He doesn't have to know how to string together a coherent sentence. Since when did our politicians start writing their own speeches or speaking extempore? NaMo's Bhutan speech would have definitely been written for him by his secretaries. It should have been in English, though. Wait a minute now..Exactly what is the problem if Modi makes his speech in Hindi in international fora ?? I have never heard the Chinese premier speak English in any official function, nor the Japanese leaders. So why should we deride our PM for speaking in the language he is most comfortable with ? And what are interpreters for, anyway ? While I do not favour imposing Hindi as a national language, let us get over with our prim-n-propah English fixation as well. So what if he speaks English with a distinct Gujarati tinge? ? Makes it all the more interesting.. Back to top jasepl Member Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: And there we go - the victim card's out again! I don't see a single person above saying that the ability to speak English fluently and accent-free is a requirement. But I do say that it is advantageous. And even expected of an Indian PM in 2014. Who gives a toss what the Chinese and Japanese and Spanish do? None of those countries tout themselves to be English speaking (plus, that's just going back to the finger pointing I ridiculed above). Also, since I brought up the topic in the first place, a re-read will reveal that: 1. I was poking fun at one of the reasons given for making the Bhutan speech in Hindi 2. I paraphrased a joke making the rounds about why he wants everyone else to speak in Hindi too That he cannot speak English fluently is a known fact. Whether that matters or not is a whole other story. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! Back to top The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: ssbmat wrote: Wait a minute now..Exactly what is the problem if Modi makes his speech in Hindi in international fora ?? I have never heard the Chinese premier speak English in any official function, nor the Japanese leaders. So why should we deride our PM for speaking in the language he is most comfortable with ? And what are interpreters for, anyway ? English is not an official language in China, Japan, France , Germany or Spain. All these countries have a predominant native language that everyone is expected to use, and over 95 % of the population in these countries speak only in this language. This is not the case with India. That the Indian PM must speak in Hindi, a language that is spoken only by around 50 % of India's population, simply because leaders from other countries speak their native tongue, is the most asinine argument the Hindi brigade can come up with. That said, I love NaMo's English. Not only is it probably better grammatically than what Hollande, Merkel or Xi Jinping can come up with but it also has a very Indian stamp on its accent, which makes it rather endearing. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top ssbmat Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710 Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:37 am    Post subject: The_Goat wrote: ssbmat wrote: Wait a minute now..Exactly what is the problem if Modi makes his speech in Hindi in international fora ?? I have never heard the Chinese premier speak English in any official function, nor the Japanese leaders. So why should we deride our PM for speaking in the language he is most comfortable with ? And what are interpreters for, anyway ? English is not an official language in China, Japan, France , Germany or Spain. All these countries have a predominant native language that everyone is expected to use, and over 95 % of the population in these countries speak only in this language. This is not the case with India. That the Indian PM must speak in Hindi, a language that is spoken only by around 50 % of India's population, simply because leaders from other countries speak their native tongue, is the most asinine argument the Hindi brigade can come up with. Whoa there.. dont count me in the Hindi brigade- I dont care if Modi makes his speech in Hindi or Gujarati or Telugu for that matter. It is absolutely not necessary nor is it a perceived advantage if you speak in English- unless one happens to be an Indian IT service company coolie. Back to top justbala Member Joined: 11 Jan 2007 Posts: 1896 Location: Bangalore Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: ssbmat wrote: It is absolutely not necessary nor is it a perceived advantage if you speak in English- unless one happens to be an Indian IT service company coolie. And you say you are not part of the Hindi brigade!! In a multi-lingual country like India, it is imperative there is a common neutral language of communication and you might not like to accept it, but English has played that role effectively in India. Back to top jasepl Member Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:22 pm    Post subject: ssbmat wrote: It is absolutely not necessary nor is it a perceived advantage if you speak in English Knowledge of the English language is not advantageous? Which planet are you living on? _________________ four years free of jetya punti! Back to top HAWK21M Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: As long as majority of important documents are in English......it will have an Advantage ..... _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! Back to top The_Goat Member Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:19 pm    Post subject: Yes, everyone should learn English in India, if only to provide laughs like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li83lbsc-gc _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes). -Jasepl Back to top stealthpilot Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Speaking English is most definitely an advantage in today's working world, but not the same way for diplomats/politicians? IMO it doesn't matter much. Wear headphones and speak what you're comfortable in- the world will still understand one another. If a PM is more comfortable speaking another language OK, as long as it isn't some lame proving a point/making a statement by speaking Sanskrit type of thing. _________________ eP007 Back to top sumantra Member Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 4685 Location: New Delhi Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:38 am    Post subject: justbala wrote: I had to learn 3 languages while my cousin in Delhi got away with just 2!! Balagopal, there is something incorrect here. As a kid growing up in Delhi, I we had both Hindi and Sanskrit at school, neither of which are my mother tongue. Most of us (with a different mother tongue) growing up in bigger cities are at least trilingual, and many of us know one or two more. In today's world, while we may not like a particular language, it is often advantageous to know a few more languages, than the other way `round. Yes, I do not appreciate a language being `imposed' on any one, after all, that is what the essence of the anti-Hindi agitation of Anndurai, had taken roots in. Personally, I am fairly comfortable in Hindi, and know the language well enough to enjoy literature in, I did not like it while learning it in school. Cheers, Sumantra. 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