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Indian Diplomat arrested in NY for worker abuse
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iah87
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, removing barricades seems petty. Perhaps they could chosen something else to protest this.

I doubt if a Chinese or Russian or even a Brazilian diplomat is arrested in a similar way, that China or Russia (or Brazil) would just lie down. Global power or not, India is a major power and regardless, even a diplomat from smaller countries should not expect such treatment from the US marshals.
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Indian government was only trying to demonstrate what it means when US Embassy is treated like other embassies with respect to diplomatic courtesies. The USA held a so-called elite status and its staff apparently enjoyed these (even if symbolic) privileges. Now India has brought it down to a more general level- which they themselves are accorded in the US. So barricade removal is just that- a symbolic gesture.
It is not a security layer reduction-the roadside barricades would never have been a major deterrent in any case.

I would say, MEA must get the US embassy staff IDs recovered pronto as ordered by GoI. And defaulting US officials must face the consequences .
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:
Yes, removing barricades seems petty. Perhaps they could chosen something else to protest this.

I doubt if a Chinese or Russian or even a Brazilian diplomat is arrested in a similar way, that China or Russia (or Brazil) would just lie down. Global power or not, India is a major power and regardless, even a diplomat from smaller countries should not expect such treatment from the US marshals.


Perhaps.

But by making a production out of this, India focuses the world's attention on the Diplomat, and her cheesy attempts at tax and INS fraud in the US - which regardless of the alleged "strip search" is a fact. Right now, India is looking like a fool. The GOI should have kept its trap shut, and negotiated its way out of this, instead of acting like a child. If it wanted to retaliate against the US, there are trade deals and arms deals and other forms of arm twisting that smart nations (like China) engage in, not imposing arbitrary bans against embassies from importing liquor.
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PNQIAD
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out that Devyani Khobragade had FULL diplomatic immunity at the time of her arrest:

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/kh...t/20131226.htm

Quote:

In a new twist, it has now emerged that senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade enjoyed full diplomatic immunity including from personal arrest and detention on December 12 when she was taken into custody by the United States authorities in a visa fraud case.

Thirty-nine-year-old Khobragade, who was posted as Deputy Consul General in New York, was also accredited as an "advisor to the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations" by the UN with effect from August 26, 2013 and her status as an advisor was valid until 31 December 2013. The accreditation was for the UN General Assembly 2013.

Under the ‘Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations’, Article 4 Section 11A specifies "Immunities from personal arrest or detention and from the seizure of their personal baggage" of all representatives of members to the UN and further the article specifies that the expression "representative" shall be deemed to include all delegates, deputy delegates, advisors, technical experts and secretaries of delegations.


May be that is why the GoI has been so unusually aggressive from day one on this issue - quite contrary to its usual response to issues....
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iah87
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is true this lets out the US State dept, which was wrangling with this issue. If it wished, the state dept can declare her persona non grata and ask her to leave the country, with no charges. The only problem is she will not be able to come to US again. India can now go on to restoring any privileges that US has in India on par with other country diplomats in India.
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Jaysit
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PNQIAD wrote:
Turns out that Devyani Khobragade had FULL diplomatic immunity at the time of her arrest:

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/kh...t/20131226.htm

Quote:

In a new twist, it has now emerged that senior Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade enjoyed full diplomatic immunity including from personal arrest and detention on December 12 when she was taken into custody by the United States authorities in a visa fraud case.

Thirty-nine-year-old Khobragade, who was posted as Deputy Consul General in New York, was also accredited as an "advisor to the Permanent Mission of India to the United Nations" by the UN with effect from August 26, 2013 and her status as an advisor was valid until 31 December 2013. The accreditation was for the UN General Assembly 2013.

Under the ‘Convention on the Privileges and Immunities of the United Nations’, Article 4 Section 11A specifies "Immunities from personal arrest or detention and from the seizure of their personal baggage" of all representatives of members to the UN and further the article specifies that the expression "representative" shall be deemed to include all delegates, deputy delegates, advisors, technical experts and secretaries of delegations.


May be that is why the GoI has been so unusually aggressive from day one on this issue - quite contrary to its usual response to issues....


Nope, this is article's presentation of this issue is nonsense. Her attorneys are making the argument that she had full diplomatic immunity, and this interpretation of US Art. 4 is a novel one because she was still primarily covered by her Indian diplomatic credentials. On day one of this issue, the GOI was flat-footed and make a big noise not because of this novel interpretation offered by their attorneys (which came much later), but because the GOI likes to throw temper tantrums. I suspect, however, that US courts (as well as the DOJ) will buy this argument only because ambiguity of the law will allow both India and the US to get out of this sticky situation.

Regardless, at the end of the day, there exists evidence in black and white that Devyani tried to flagrantly violate the law by getting her domestic help (who's no angel either by the looks of it) to lie on INS forms. For an Indian diplomat in one of the plummiest positions to behave in such a manner is an utter disgrace. I'm not surprised at this woman's utter disregard of the law, given that she and her father (a diplomat at the Indian mission in Berlin) have been implicated in the Adarsh flat scandal as well.
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d3vski
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This diplomat is no angel. She has an American husband and two American children. This posting is not really a posting. She committed visa fraud and let's face it, the Americans allowed the husband and son of the maid to travel to the USA which seems to indicate that the maid has probably got Asylum. No other way the Americans would just allow some poor kerelite to migrate over.

Over the last few weeks, a few skeletons have come tumbling out of the cupboard which indicates that our poor sister is corrupt:

1) it is alleged that she managed to get Germany ahead of other candidates who out ranked her due to her IAS daddy. Now in India, rank means everything!

2) she somehow manages to get a flat in Adarsh. last time I checked, it was supposed to be for war widows but the world famous indian way of doing business ensured the babus, netas and top brass ended up with everything.

3) she has considerable land and assets all over India. Amazing,how a lowly Dalit government employee can afford so much.

I hope she rots in hell. Whatever happened, she can kiss her American life good bye.
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iah87
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean by "lowly Dalit employee". What does her being Dalit is of anyone's concern.

Also she did not commit any murder or some unspeakable offense. Yes, she lied on her forms, and she has suffered already for it. She will be asked to leave the US and that will be the end of the story.

Next time, US Marshalls will know how to deal with a diplomat and next time India and other country diplomats will be careful in dealing with household help.
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d3vski
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:
What do you mean by "lowly Dalit employee". What does her being Dalit is of anyone's concern.

Also she did not commit any murder or some unspeakable offense. Yes, she lied on her forms, and she has suffered already for it. She will be asked to leave the US and that will be the end of the story.

Next time, US Marshalls will know how to deal with a diplomat and next time India and other country diplomats will be careful in dealing with household help.


I'm only highlighting what an unnecessary fuss the media are making over her caste.
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:

Next time, US Marshalls will know how to deal with a diplomat and next time India and other country diplomats will be careful in dealing with household help.


Wishful thinking!

It is neither the last time Indian diplomats will misbehave, nor the last time the police in the US will deal with mis-behavers in this fashion.

The unequivocal support Ms Khobragade has received from the Indian diplomatic community only shows how shameless the IAS/IFS crowd are. It proves that almost all of them are guilty of similar crimes and these thugs will never show any remorse.

When the American cops don't spare their own senators, a number of whom have been strip searched, subject to special security at airports etc, they are unlikely to show any mercy to a junior diplomat from some foreign country, and that is how it should be.

d3vski wrote:
Whatever happened, she can kiss her American life good bye.


She is not going to be kissing her American life goodbye, as she has been moved to the Permanent Indian Representative at the UN with full diplomatic immunity.

One can only hope that no more maids end up suffering in her hands or in those of her ilk.
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justbala
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:

One can only hope that no more maids end up suffering in her hands or in those of her ilk.


Exactly wht was the so called "suffering"?! There is no evidence of the maid being ill-treated or abused. It has been assumed that the maid was an "innocent, near-illiterate person of rustic origins" who was duped and enslaved by the Indian diplomat. If her pics and the accounts of her relatives are anything to go by - she was anything but that.

IMO she managed to get herself and her family a fast track to US citizenship. Job well done!!
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Exactly wht was the so called "suffering"?! There is no evidence of the maid being ill-treated or abused. It has been assumed that the maid was an "innocent, near-illiterate person of rustic origins" who was duped and enslaved by the Indian diplomat. If her pics and the accounts of her relatives are anything to go by - she was anything but that.

IMO she managed to get herself and her family a fast track to US citizenship. Job well done!!

@justbala- For once, you and I are on the same page Cool
But what GOI should do, is get Khobragade out of harms way in the USA, bring her back without strings attached and once in India, take punitive action for the damage caused to the relations on account of this affair.
Indeed, she may be a victim out there, but by all accounts, is not quite so from within the country.
So national honour first- then decide on the individual.
They should also look at extraditing Richard, who is STILL an Indian citizen pending enquiry in an Indian court.
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flightgearpilot
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see India showing some spine against a known bully.

Firstly, the matter seems to be one of incorrect filling up of forms. Usually forms are filled up by some clerical staff and the officers themselves do not have the time to go through and verify everything that is written. In this case, the one who has filled the form seems to have written Ms. Khobrgade's salary instead of the proposed maid's salary in the column. The diplomat herself gets a salary of $4500, how rational would it be to propose a salary of $4500 to the maid as well?

So, yes, there is a violation of the law in letter, but whether there is a violation of the law in spirit, whether she intended to misrepresent facts, is unclear.

Second, sermonizing India about its reaction does not hold water, because not too long ago US consular officers literally got away with murder in our neighbouring country, citing diplomatic immunity. Rolling Eyes

And thirdly, as is no surprise, India now knows that its own expat population is its biggest enemy when its citizens are involved in a crisis in a foreign land. The slave mentality of showing off their loyalty to their new masters and heaping crap back on their country of origin is so deeply rooted, it is extremely distressing, to put it mildly. So, no thanks to any of them and I hope India does show some spine further on too and stand by its citizens in times of crisis.
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ryder1650
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Khobragade was indicted by a Federal Grand Jury on two counts of visa fraud and making false statements. The State Department agreed to grant her dipomatic immunity and she is apparently about to or has already left the United States. If she comes back, she will likely be arrested.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/devyani-khobragade-indicted-by-us-grand-jury-leaves-us/articleshow/28608534.cms
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PAL@YWG
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that Indian Diplomat is back in India and an US diplomat is on his/her way out, things should gradually disappear from headlines.

Looking back it's pretty difficult to figure out who was really at fault. To employ a domestic help (brought in from India) there will always be a risk that the person will try all tricks available to stay back in the western world.

Similarly, chances that Indian Diplomats treat their domestic help fairly (8 hours work, proper pay & benefits) are pretty slim. They just can't change their attitude overnight (of mistreating) their so-called servants back in India.

Bigger question is why these mid-level Bureaucrats should be provided with domestic help? Just get off your butt and do your household chores!
Leave all "Guest Entertaining" activities for the Consul/Ambassadors.

Having dealt with at least 5 Indian posts in different countries, I can only say they are pathetic in terms of providing services. They just bring all baggage from India and forget that they are in a foreign land!
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Last edited by PAL@YWG on Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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iah87
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not clear that she has left the country. However to avoid prosecution she has almost no choice. It was reported that she is married to an American and has American born children. If this is true, this certainly complicates things.

Also I agree that there are 2 sides to this story. In the last 4 years, there have been at least few cases of where the Indian maids disappeared in the US, this is first case where she claimed wage fraud.

In another related news, a US diplomat was rushed out of Kenya because the vehicle in which he was driving caused a fatality accident. In addition the US embassy did not provide any financial assistance. The driver who is a US Citizen claimed diplomatic immunity and was NOT arrested or strip searched, unlike Devyani. Seems to me US has double standards all the time.

That is the reason why I think India is right to defend this, while visa fraud is a crime but is not a major crime which requires detention or strip search. People commit visa offenses all the time in US, and is considered to be a minor crime in the US.
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me, the most unfortunate aspect of this whole incident is as to how a perfectly justifiable response by the GoI got undermined and criticized by everyone, thanks to Ms Khobragade's corrupt actions. It only shows how much the average Indian wants the corrupt to be shamed and insulted, even if by a foreign agency.

She only has herself to blame for what happened, as it will be in the case of every other diplomat with similar credentials, who may get involved in something similar in future.
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d3vski
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:



d3vski wrote:
Whatever happened, she can kiss her American life good bye.


She is not going to be kissing her American life goodbye, as she has been moved to the Permanent Indian Representative at the UN with full diplomatic immunity.

One can only hope that no more maids end up suffering in her hands or in those of her ilk.


Told you, she will be kissing her American life goodbye. She may be accredited to the UN but she has been declared a persona non grata and has left the US. The indictment remains and if she were to travel to the US or any country with an extradition treaty in her personal capacity the she will most likely end up under arrest and will end up with a hell of a fight.



On top of that[/i]
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article is a must read.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?289123
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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting issue(s) ....
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is Khobraghade being interviewed by the National Chatterbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je45kc4bMqs

I must say she is rather good looking and extremely articulate. Don't know how fake those emotions are though.
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