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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11349 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thats as real as drought, ageing and taxes..
I am not surprised at all...And a certain famous novelist wanted to side with this benevolent gentleman for the cause of Kashmiri freedom ??
Why dont India airdrop this gentleman and all his supporters (male or female) on a free chopper ride back to where they really root for? Now thats one "air raid" that the Pak Defence forces would not retaliate against
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texdravid Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 971 Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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I feel that the operation itself was handled with professionalism and poise, courtesy of the US Navy Seals.
The aftermath, handled by the Obama political hacks, has been handled bizarrely and poorly.
They have changed the story of the incident multiple times, each time more confusing.
He has refused the put out the pictures of a dead bin Laden on the grounds that "we don't need to gloat", but then goes out and is gloating at every public venue he can find...like at Ground Zero today.
I think it is a mistake NOT to publish the photos. The crazy jihadis who hate the US now and before will hate the US after the photo release. Stop being so understanding and deferential to these crazy jihadists.
Publish them!
Then punish Pakistan. They are now unquestionably the villain of the world. _________________ "A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...
Charter member, Indians against Obama |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/No-parallel-between-9/11-and-26/11-US/articleshow/8175275.cms
I fail to understand why do India media (as well!) need a US endorsement on actions post 26/11 ?
This question itself is reflective of our internal inferiority complex. And it stems from the top to the bottom..deep in our hearts, Indians are not proud of who they are..they are actually embarassed.
If we had the pride, then corrupt Govts like the present and past, at various levels, would never have been allowed to function at all..
If the Indian Govt has the ba!!s , let the Commandos carry out any type of suitable operation! Why make a brouhaha about it? |
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ryder1650 Member
Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 554
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:16 am Post subject: |
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ssbmat wrote: | http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/No-parallel-between-9/11-and-26/11-US/articleshow/8175275.cms
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Any Indian expecting some lowly State Department spokesperson to come out and publicly endorse an Indian strike on Pakistan is delusional. What good would it have done for the State Department to recommend an attack?
Watch as now the Indian government will start to face more criticism over its lack of action after the 26/11 attacks. Here is the US going to the other side of the world to avenge crimes committed against it while India is unable to seek its own justice. Yes, it is more complicated than that (aggression against specific terrorist bodies could be seen by Pakistanis as an act of war), with there being far more potential ramifications if India were to strike forces in Pakistan, but the government will soon have to answer for this lack of action. |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 11:43 am Post subject: |
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Understandably so,India cannot afford to launch a full-scale war because of the closer proximity to Pakistan.Unlike US, which has a luxury of 3 oceans dividing them from the terrorists or terrorist nations, can send troops to nab or kill a terrorist there.
At the moment, India should continue raising doubts to the world that Pakistan is showing double standards in fighting against terrorism.The people there are also showing support to terrorist organizations.
US has already hinted that they will launch another 'Geronimo' in Pakistan,if the situation demands that.Pakistan is in a confused state at the moment.They are in two minds whether or not to continue their relationship with the US.
Which ever way you look at it Pakistan is finding itself sandwiched between the local sentiment and International pressure to capture the most wanted terrorist.
One important fact that we must admit that US is Militarily and Technologically superior to India. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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tayaramecanici Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2007 Posts: 648
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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Once again USA has cleverly managed to divert the media attention from its bitter-sweet relations with pakistan to the historic Indo-Pak rivalry, all with the help of the ever so obliging indian media which is ready throw itself on its back and spread its legs at the sight of the yank dong.
Whilst the whole world was concentrating on the scrouge of terrorism within pakistan, here comes the loud mouth Indian media to offer fodder to the pakis to drum up another nuclear scare for the whole world to scurry for peace, forgetting all about OBL, LET, JUD, SSP, SSB,.....
Pakistan is a failed state with over 100 Nukes. The guys with the fingers on the Nuke buttons have residences in Dubai's Jumeira beach road and London's edgeware road. They will not give a rats arse to press the button obliterate India and eff off to the comfort of their residences in these countries, India may or may not retaliate but wILL be rewinded into the ages of PANCHATANTRA and AMAR CHITRA KATHA.
The only solution to Pak is to corner USA and UK. Corner their politician at every forum thru our media and highlight their double standards of aiding and abbetting the pak military and ISI. India has very little leverage over PAK, especially with the support it receives from China and Saudi/UAE. The PAKIS have done their homework. |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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sri_bom Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 2365 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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tayaramecanici wrote: | Once again USA has cleverly managed to divert the media attention from its bitter-sweet relations with pakistan to the historic Indo-Pak rivalry, all with the help of the ever so obliging indian media which is ready throw itself on its back and spread its legs at the sight of the yank dong.
Whilst the whole world was concentrating on the scrouge of terrorism within pakistan, here comes the loud mouth Indian media to offer fodder to the pakis to drum up another nuclear scare for the whole world to scurry for peace, forgetting all about OBL, LET, JUD, SSP, SSB,.....
Pakistan is a failed state with over 100 Nukes. The guys with the fingers on the Nuke buttons have residences in Dubai's Jumeira beach road and London's edgeware road. They will not give a rats arse to press the button obliterate India and eff off to the comfort of their residences in these countries, India may or may not retaliate but wILL be rewinded into the ages of PANCHATANTRA and AMAR CHITRA KATHA.
The only solution to Pak is to corner USA and UK. Corner their politician at every forum thru our media and highlight their double standards of aiding and abbetting the pak military and ISI. India has very little leverage over PAK, especially with the support it receives from China and Saudi/UAE. The PAKIS have done their homework. |
I agree 100%.
I was speaking to an army officer post the Bombay attacks and asked why India did not retaliate or atleast destroy the training camps in Pakistan. He candidly told me India's airpower is not superior enough to launch a limted war as our airplanes are quite outdated. Although we have strengths in navy and army without proper air cover the limited war would have put a lot of casualties on our side. |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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sri_bom wrote: |
I was speaking to an army officer post the Bombay attacks and asked why India did not retaliate or atleast destroy the training camps in Pakistan. He candidly told me India's airpower is not superior enough to launch a limted war as our airplanes are quite outdated. |
India's airpower not superior enough? I am sure the IAF will definitely not agree.
India's lack of retaliation had nothing to do with air power capacity, and everything to do with the fact that any cross border operation involving aircraft by our forces would lead to a full scale nuclear war with Pakistan. That may sound like a juicy idea to some people but Nuclear war isn't a joke. It will lead to the obliteration of Pakistan and the whole of North India. I'm sure nobody even with half a brain wants that. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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I guess that it is generally agreed in military and political circles that keeping the nuclear options aside, India is vastly superior to Pakistan in aspects of conventional military capabilities.
So there is just no debate there. However, the total quantum of combat aircraft that India has, relative to its geographical area is IMHO, on the low side (purely combat aircraft/Area (sqKm ratio).
But even so, there is sufficient capability vis-a-vis Pakistan. But the nuclear weapons change the equation considerably.
I guess Pakistan has a relatively higher number of nuclear warheads relative to its overall military strength. Its a different case that even a handful are enough to deter either opponent, unless one of the two country's leaders (political and military) go stark raving mad and order first-use of nukes.
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texdravid Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 971 Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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One week has now passed since bin Laden's demise.
Meanwhile, Obama has done multiple "victory laps" because he is sooo proud of himself....
Why? He hated the Afghan/Iraq wars. He hated enhanced interrogation (which worked here BTW). He hated the whole security infrastructure after 9/11. He treated the war on terror more like a police action. He hated Guantanomo.
Here is the person who REALLY should be celebrating.....
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/vindication.jpg
Obama denounces everything Bush, then when he becomes president, realizes that GWB actually put together, in short order after 9/11, an effective and thorough response to terror.
Bush was right......history will judge him well. Just like Reagan is now lionized 30 years after the fact....
BTW, what a great picture. I am going to blow it up and frame it in my office. _________________ "A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...
Charter member, Indians against Obama |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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@Texdravid,After reading most of your posts,I guess you are an hardcore fan of George W Bush.No doubt, the credit should go to him for taking swift and sometime controversial decisions to fight the War on Terror.
But at the same time Bush did not urge India to fight terrorism against Pakistan when our Parliament was attacked.So he has also shown double standards like other American presidents till date.
If he had not shown any liniency to Pakistan during the 4th year of war on terror then Bin Ladin would have been captured or killed long time ago.
I wonder what Bush would have done to help India capture its most wanted terrorist,if this episode had take place during his Presidency. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:51 am Post subject: |
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From an Indian perspective, it would be fair to say that GWB was a bit closer and more sympathetic to the Indian cause then Democrats like Clinton (from Punjab) and Obama ever have been.
Most importantly, GWB was able to keep Gen Mush under check. Here, Obama doesnt seem to have any connect with any of the politicians from Pak.
And I am sure he's pissed as hell about India shortlisting the European Typhoon and Rafale..(not that India should have bended over backwards to please him anyway)..
I think US may even go back to its Cold War ways, maintaining just the right amount of "instability" in South Asia to keep things interesting, but reducing direct commitment to an absolute minimum..
Not a good sign for India.
Time for India to bolster its own economic agenda, forge strong alliance with other major powers, and also engage China effectively to keep Pakistan in check.
OTOH some powerful Industry captains may lobby hard to keep USA relations at a priority so that they can salivate at the prospect of outsourcing business..that would be the LAST thing on Indian Govt's priorities IMO. |
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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ssbmat wrote: |
OTOH some powerful Industry captains may lobby hard to keep USA relations at a priority so that they can salivate at the prospect of outsourcing business..that would be the LAST thing on Indian Govt's priorities IMO. |
I don't see why not. After all, one of the drivers of India's economic growth is the IT sector which relies on the US market for most of its revenues. And don't forget that the US is the largest foreign investor in the Indian economy. Like it or not, the US is still the world's leading economic power and the India is benefiting a lot by doing business with it. Doesn't mean that we should kiss their a**es, but it is important to get things in perspective.
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I think US may even go back to its Cold War ways, maintaining just the right amount of "instability" in South Asia to keep things interesting, but reducing direct commitment to an absolute minimum..
Not a good sign for India. |
I believe India is too important for the US to start treating us like they did during the cold war days. Obama would be an idiot if he reverts to the Nixon-Kissinger era foreign policies when it comes to India. Given how much they have invested in our economy. the US business lobby would certainly prevent him from doing anything to undermine India's economic interests.[/quote] _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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From the beginning of India's independence to the present,India has never been the ally of US for different foreign policies.We were just a friend that needed US's help in boosting our economy.
When it came to endorsing US foreign policies and their decision to go for war against a nation,India has acted on its own.Thanks to the NAM,India has always restrained itself from siding to the US.Instead we looked at it from our perspective and decided whether it was right or wrong.
US cannot wage a cold war against India as we are a well established democracy unlike the erstwhile Soviet Union.Yes it is in US's intrest to have some sort of instability in the region for them to remain as the only Super Power.
Bush's decision to go for the Indo-US nuclear deal was actually benifitting the US and not India.They would have sold the old reactors to us.
In a way Bush was not all that favourable to India as one might think, except for his preference to Outsourcing.Whereas Obama seem to be vocal of the tremendous economic growth in India.In every conference or seminar he makes objectionable remark against India when it comes to our medical service or US jobs going to India.
Obama likes to blame the rest of the world for his fault rather than looking within and come up with better economic policies. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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So when it comes to US taking any action against the India's most wanted terrorists in Pakistan,well, expect nothing.As long as India remains just a friend to the US and not its true ally like South Korea,Japan,Austrailia,Israel,Britain,Italy and Canada,then India will have to tackle its National security issue on its own.
If and when India becomes an ally to the US,then India will have to be prepared to take orders from the US and buy loads of US's weaponary in return for not so lucrative economic benefits.India will also have to sacrifice its soveriegnty, if US wants to use our air space to do a covert operation, like they have done in Pakistan. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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jasepl Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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What an incredibly ridiculous notion that any country should "favour" India, as if that's India''s right or due.
The whole thing is even more ridiculous when India claims & pretends to be a global superpower.
What garbage. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! |
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sri_bom Member
Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 2365 Location: Singapore
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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The_Goat wrote: | sri_bom wrote: |
I was speaking to an army officer post the Bombay attacks and asked why India did not retaliate or atleast destroy the training camps in Pakistan. He candidly told me India's airpower is not superior enough to launch a limted war as our airplanes are quite outdated. |
India's airpower not superior enough? I am sure the IAF will definitely not agree.
India's lack of retaliation had nothing to do with air power capacity, and everything to do with the fact that any cross border operation involving aircraft by our forces would lead to a full scale nuclear war with Pakistan. That may sound like a juicy idea to some people but Nuclear war isn't a joke. It will lead to the obliteration of Pakistan and the whole of North India. I'm sure nobody even with half a brain wants that. |
Thats what the army officer said.
Also I think its time India does take some action for any future terriorist attacks. We cant keep quite everytime just because this may lead to a full scale nuclear war. Otherwise enemy countries will use this as a fear psychosis and will keep attacking our country. |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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jasepl wrote: | What an incredibly ridiculous notion that any country should "favour" India, as if that's India''s right or due.
The whole thing is even more ridiculous when India claims & pretends to be a global superpower.
What garbage. |
In fact, thats exactly what I am saying too..India should not seek favors nor give them..India is (hopefully) mature enough to take actions on its own, without having to take the permission of the USA..
If it means, to that extent, foregoing any 'special' interests, like the Outsourcing lobby (not the business per-se) . True power of a nation like India will be realised when India looks within and strengthens its domestic economy..That will be true projection of its superpower status.
Not when you build 100 acre glass and steel campuses with landscaped gardens where white-collared workers slog 24x7 against impossible revenue targets, and eagerly suited booted men escort goras and goris around on their annual vendor visits..
All this while just a stones throw away, poor laborers live in conditions worse than concentration camps, and the roads leading to these commercial paradises are littered with garbage, potholes, and cattle, which these gora public eagerly take snaps of.. |
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jasepl Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
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ssbmat wrote: | True power of a nation like India will be realised when India looks within and strengthens its domestic economy..That will be true projection of its superpower status. |
I couldn't disagree more.
The true power of a nation - any nation - is gauged by its contribution to the world and by it's influence in the world.
On those counts, India is very far down the list. Given our size, we're dead last proportionately.
We have a lot of people (who remain amongst the poorest in the world). What else? _________________ four years free of jetya punti! |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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India can take a leaf out of Sri Lanka who did not wait for International opinion of whether or not to attack LTTE.They just went ahead and did what was in their best interest to provide security for its citizens.
Since then the UN and others have levied charges of human rights violation against the Sri Lankan government but that has not deterd them.
If India also believes that it is in their national interest to take unilateral action against the most wanted terrorists than they should do it.Even if the International opinion is not in their favour.
One may argue that Sri Lanka would not have achieved it if India did not lay an helping hand but it still Sri Lanka showed their military might and fought against LTTE.
As far as having an Indian friendly government in Pakistan we will have to wait for all 'Eternity' for that day to come. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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jasepl Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2008 Posts: 4257 Location: bund-bay
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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G-BYGB wrote: | As far as having an Indian friendly government in Pakistan we will have to wait for all 'Eternity' for that day to come. |
Why should it matter? One should learn to deal with what one has to deal with. Whether that's in Islamabad or Budapest or Washington or Rangoon.
Every election in other countries, we have India wondering "Will Candidate A be good for India? Will Candidate B be bad for India?" Disgraceful. _________________ four years free of jetya punti! |
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G-BYGB Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1813 Location: Bangalore/Delhi
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:35 am Post subject: |
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jasepl wrote: |
Why should it matter? One should learn to deal with what one has to deal with. Whether that's in Islamabad or Budapest or Washington or Rangoon.
Every election in other countries, we have India wondering "Will Candidate A be good for India? Will Candidate B be bad for India?" Disgraceful. |
Having an Indian friendly government in any part of the world does make things much easier interms of capturing our most wanted terrorist.
Till date,we have not been able to extradite the following most wanted people from US,Argentina,Italy,Pakistan and lot of other countries:
1.) Warren Anderson -Bhopal Gas tragedy
2.) Ottavio Qattarochi -Bofors scandal
3.) Dawood Ibrahim -you guys know
4.) David Coleman Headly -26/11 attack
5.) Tahoor Rana
6.) Hafeez Saeed
Because India has not been able to ascertain its supremacy to the rest of the world,which we should,has made things a little diffcult for us to take action against these men under our law.
Currently India is not a self-dependent nation.As a result we are forced to depend on which candidate wins in another country so that we can have a good economic and trade relations with them. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos |
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ssbmat Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1710
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texdravid Member
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 971 Location: GREAT STATE OF TEXAS
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Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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We all know that the Pakistanis and their military/ISI/generals will NEVER give up their Islamist thugs....now here it officially from their top general.
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/13/pakistani-general-refusing-to-cut-ties-with-militants/
This is both pathetic and ominous.
It just goes to show that, short of a total all out war, Pakistan and the Islamists are basically one entity. A military junta rules Pakistan and their coalition partners are the Islamists. What a failed, thuggish state!! _________________ "A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Proud Conservative in exile, soon to reawaken...
Charter member, Indians against Obama |
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747-237 Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 11349 Location: Gordon Gekko's Boardroom
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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747-237 wrote: | Courtesy of FAUX NEWS.
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Oh Boy !
_________________ 11000 posts (and counting) on Airliners-India.
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The_Goat Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 3260 Location: South of France
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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^
This is completely ridiculous!
Obama should sue CNN and Fox for this!
How idiotic can they get?
PS: B747-237, are those pictures yours, particularly the CNN one? Can I link them elsewhere? Thank you. _________________ I don't know which is the more pampered bunch : AI's widebodies (the aunties) or Jet's widebodies (the planes).
-Jasepl |
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