Airliners-India.com Flickr Group & Facebook    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Air Chief admits flaws in MiG-21          Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> Military Aviation & Space View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message the_380 Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:37 pm    Post subject: Air Chief admits flaws in MiG-21 Air Chief admits flaws in MiG-21 It was a record which was perhaps too good to be true. The Indian Air Force on Thursday suffered its first MiG-21 crash in a year near Darjeeling. The pilot, Squadron Leader Pandey, was killed in the mishap, which has marred what could have been the first crashless year for the MiG-21 in four decades. And for the first time, the outgoing Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal SP Tyagi, has admitted limits to improving the safety record of the MiG-21. He acknowledged design flaws in this ageing fighter as the limiting factor, but at the same time he sought to play down the problem. Link As if we were not aware _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! Back to top the_380 Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: BTW after reading the whole article it gives me a feeling we're not gonna ge any new fighters soon. This guy wants to keep these Flying Coffins in the skies for another 10 years! Damn!!! _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! Back to top Aseem Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:52 am    Post subject: he is retiring soon and the incoming chief is a chopper pilot, so I would presume he won't have any soft corner for flying coffins. I lost my second cousin to one of these and would love to see them go. rgds VT-ASJ _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri] [/url] Back to top shivendrashukla Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1354 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: the_380 wrote: This guy wants to keep these Flying Coffins in the skies for another 10 years! Damn!!! C'mon avijeet they are not flying coffins!! My father flew them for 12 yrs and he absolutely loves them. Given a chance he would fly them again anytime. They have a poor safety record for 2 main reasons: 1. Lack of Trainer. Fresh pilots out of AFA straight goto Tezpur for MOFTU where they fly migs for the 1st time after flying Kirans. It's like driving F1 car after driving Fiat. That;s why IAF desperately needed Hawks. I am sure that once they come, things will definately improve. 2. Engine problems. There have been few problems in maintainence and procurement of spare parts. This problem have been solved to quite an extent and hence we see a decline in number of crashes this year. As for retirement, they cannot be phased out until we have a suitable replacement for them. Here the blame lies squarely on DRDO for their infinite delays in development of TEJAS. Until TEJAS is not ready, chances are that MiG 21 will remain. Cheers Shivendra Back to top shivendrashukla Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1354 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Aseem wrote: I lost my second cousin to one of these and would love to see them go. rgds VT-ASJ I lost few of my relations in Jaguar crashes. My father's half course is dead coz of crashes. I have seen people today and tomorrow i heard they are dead . That;s the risk of military aviation. I have seen lot worse believe me. I have seen a mirage crash right in front of my eyes. . Shivendra Back to top the_380 Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Quote: C'mon avijeet they are not flying coffins!! My father flew them for 12 yrs and he absolutely loves them. Thats what those aircrafts have been nicknamed ... not me _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! Back to top HAWK21M Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: The Problem is the Trainer in between Sub & Supersonic Aircraft.Pilots response time is much less.To add to it MIG21 is also a single Engined Aircraft with older technology compared to the Newer ones. regds MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! Back to top HamiltonAir Member Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 937 Location: Bangalore Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: shivendrashukla wrote: the_380 wrote: This guy wants to keep these Flying Coffins in the skies for another 10 years! Damn!!! C'mon avijeet they are not flying coffins!! My father flew them for 12 yrs and he absolutely loves them. Given a chance he would fly them again anytime. They have a poor safety record for 2 main reasons: 1. Lack of Trainer. Fresh pilots out of AFA straight goto Tezpur for MOFTU where they fly migs for the 1st time after flying Kirans. It's like driving F1 car after driving Fiat. That;s why IAF desperately needed Hawks. I am sure that once they come, things will definately improve. 2. Engine problems. There have been few problems in maintainence and procurement of spare parts. This problem have been solved to quite an extent and hence we see a decline in number of crashes this year. As for retirement, they cannot be phased out until we have a suitable replacement for them. Here the blame lies squarely on DRDO for their infinite delays in development of TEJAS. Until TEJAS is not ready, chances are that MiG 21 will remain. Cheers Shivendra Shiv is right in a way. No matter what they call it, I still love those flying coffins Regards, _________________ HamiltonAir Back to top the_380 Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: HAWK21M wrote: The Problem is the Trainer in between Sub & Supersonic Aircraft.Pilots response time is much less.To add to it MIG21 is also a single Engined Aircraft with older technology compared to the Newer ones. Poor maintenance also _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! Back to top shivendrashukla Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1354 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:11 am    Post subject: the_380 wrote: Poor maintenance also Maintainence is not an issue here and i can vouch for that. Maintainence is best in IAF and i doubt that you will ever find this kind of maintainence anywhere else. Cheers Shivendra Back to top the_380 Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2329 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:22 am    Post subject: shivendrashukla wrote: Maintainence is not an issue here and i can vouch for that. Maintainence is best in IAF and i doubt that you will ever find this kind of maintainence anywhere else. Not blaming IAF engg but what about availability of spares, etc? _________________ http://www.myspace.com/avsatsworld A Walt Disney and 20th Century Fox Audio Producer!!! Back to top shivendrashukla Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1354 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: the_380 wrote: Not blaming IAF engg but what about availability of spares, etc? Well that was an issue as mentioned in my earlier post. After the breakup of soviet union, the factories producing spares went to different countries. In order to earn some quick money some of these countries started producing counterfeit spare parts. India was supplied some of these spare parts unknowingly during 1990's. But this has now been resolved. Some of the spares are now being produced by HAL and other have been sourced directly from their original manufacturers. Hope this clarifies. Shivendra Back to top HAWK21M Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 8132 Location: Mumbai, INDIA Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: I still stick to my Statement. Root cause is the Intermedieate Aircraft between Sub to Supersonic. regds MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! Back to top stealthpilot Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: BLR, DXB Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: shivendrashukla wrote: Maintainence is not an issue here and i can vouch for that. Maintainence is best in IAF and i doubt that you will ever find this kind of maintainence anywhere else. Cheers Shivendra Spoken like someone with a true connection to the IAF I like that. Well, i get what you mean, but is maintenance really as good as it can be? Not all crashes are pilot error, and the lack of training certainly is a big factor. However, whatever the excuse is about spare parts/old technology etc- all that comes under 'maintenance' doesnt it? If the Mig 21s were maintained and upgraded then all the crashes would be pilot error. I don’t have any facts, but I doubt all the crashes are the pilots fault (spoken like someone with a connection to pilots) _________________ eP007 Back to top Aseem Member Joined: 15 Dec 2006 Posts: 2841 Location: YYZ Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: I think we need to seperate out two things, which are pilot error and negligence. Pilot can err if not properly trained, and the solution lies in IJT. As far as negligence is concerned, we don't have sufficient evidence. rgds VT-ASJ _________________ [url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri] [/url] Back to top shivendrashukla Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 1354 Location: Mumbai, India Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: stealthpilot wrote: [ Spoken like someone with a true connection to the IAF I like that. Yeah. I have. Both sides. My father is a MiG 21 pilot and my Uncle is an AME, MiG's. So i can say, consulting them of course, with some amount of certainity what the problem may be. Cheers Shivendra Back to top VABBy Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 823 Location: DEL Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: shivendrashukla wrote: C'mon avijeet they are not flying coffins!! My father flew them for 12 yrs and he absolutely loves them. Given a chance he would fly them again anytime. They have a poor safety record for 2 main reasons: 1. Lack of Trainer. Fresh pilots out of AFA straight goto Tezpur for MOFTU where they fly migs for the 1st time after flying Kirans. It's like driving F1 car after driving Fiat. That;s why IAF desperately needed Hawks. I am sure that once they come, things will definately improve. 2. Engine problems. There have been few problems in maintainence and procurement of spare parts. This problem have been solved to quite an extent and hence we see a decline in number of crashes this year. As for retirement, they cannot be phased out until we have a suitable replacement for them. Here the blame lies squarely on DRDO for their infinite delays in development of TEJAS. Until TEJAS is not ready, chances are that MiG 21 will remain. Well said in real agreement with you for what all u have quoted _________________ Expeditors- You'd be surprised how far we will go for you www.expeditors.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         Airliners-India.com Forum Index -> Military Aviation & Space All times are GMT + 5.5 Hours Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum New Members----------------Sign-up Guidelines Airliners-India----------------Civil AviationNon AviationTrip ReportsMilitary Aviation & SpaceInternationalAviation Polls & PreferenceTech/OpsAviation PhotographyEditorial/Analysis/ArticlesAviation HobbyAviation LawAviation Questions & CareersSite Related Flickr Group----------------Photo of the Month My Message Board----------------Pin Up  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. 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