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US Airlines gang up against MEB3, ask for relook of opensky

 
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: US Airlines gang up against MEB3, ask for relook of opensky Reply with quote

From: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-legacy-airlines-to-push-govt-to-re-look-open-skies-404458/

Quote:
US legacy airlines to push govt to re-look open skies

Delta Air Lines, American Airlines and United Airlines are planning to urge the US government to re-evaluate its approach towards open skies agreements with other countries, amidst increased worry over competition from Middle Eastern carriers.

Sources tell Flightglobal that chief executives from the three airlines had initially scheduled a meeting with senior White House officials, including Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx, during the week of 6 October, but postponed the meeting earlier this week.

The US Department of Transportation (DOT) confirms to Flightglobal that the meeting was postponed.

It is not immediately clear why the meeting was put off, but sources tell Flightglobal that the airlines' decision was linked to ongoing US-led airstrikes against extremist group Islamic State (ISIS). The USA is being aided in its military operations by several Middle Eastern nations, including the United Arab Emirates and Qatar, which own the fast-growing Gulf carriers that the three US airlines have voiced concerns about.

Delta, American and United all decline to comment on the meeting when contacted by Flightglobal. A DOT spokesperson refers follow-up questions to Delta, identifying the Atlanta-based carrier as the airline which set up the meeting.

The Gulf carriers - specifically Emirates, Qatar Airways and Etihad - have drawn the increased ire of the US and European airline industry in recent years, as they have rapidly expanded their networks and ordered hundreds of new widebody aircraft. Delta's chief executive Richard Anderson, in particular, has been especially vocal.

"A number of those [Middle Eastern] carriers are not airlines, they're governments," he said at the Global Business Travel Association (GBTA) convention in Los Angeles in July, adding that the Middle Eastern carriers have "huge subsidies and huge structural advantages".

"Broadly, we're in favour of open skies agreements but we're also in favour of fair skies agreements," Anderson said then. "While we certainly respect their right to operate, at least it needs to be on [a] fair and level basis."

Anderson's counterparts at American and United have also raised concerns about competition from Gulf carriers. American chief executive Doug Parker tells reporters at an event in Washington DC today: "You have to watch them closely and understand that they're a force to be reckoned with in the future if they keep expanding at those kind of rates."

United chief executive Jeff Smisek said at the GBTA convention in July that Middle Eastern carriers have a "huge advantage" compared to US airlines. "They're state subsidised, they're state controlled and they're viewed as an arm of the state itself for tourism, travel and trade.... Our government, and you've heard me say before, views us as an ATM machine or a piggy bank."

The Gulf carriers have repeatedly fired back at criticism from their US and European rivals, accusing them of being protectionist.


Interesting and a true test of America's liberal Open Skies policy. IMO the US should do nothing to block the MEB3 as ultimately the US consumer benefits, and true open skies has been the hallmark of US aviation for ages now. It's really up to the US airlines to forge alliances/ partnerships with the MEB3 if they want to work with them (similar to the way European airlines have open skies and deep partnerships with US carriers).
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abhijith16
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: US Airlines gang up against MEB3, ask for relook of open Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
From: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-legacy-airlines-to-push-govt-to-re-look-open-skies-404458/

Quote:
US legacy airlines to push govt to re-look open skies

Delta Air Lines, American Airlines and United Airlines are planning to urge the US government to re-evaluate its approach towards open skies agreements with other countries, amidst increased worry over competition from Middle Eastern carriers.

Sources tell Flightglobal that chief executives from the three airlines had initially scheduled a meeting with senior White House officials, including Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx, during the week of 6 October, but postponed the meeting earlier this week.

The US Department of Transportation (DOT) confirms to Flightglobal that the meeting was postponed.

It is not immediately clear why the meeting was put off, but sources tell Flightglobal that the airlines' decision was linked to ongoing US-led airstrikes against extremist group Islamic State (ISIS). The USA is being aided in its military operations by several Middle Eastern nations, including the United Arab Emirates and Qatar, which own the fast-growing Gulf carriers that the three US airlines have voiced concerns about.

Delta, American and United all decline to comment on the meeting when contacted by Flightglobal. A DOT spokesperson refers follow-up questions to Delta, identifying the Atlanta-based carrier as the airline which set up the meeting.

The Gulf carriers - specifically Emirates, Qatar Airways and Etihad - have drawn the increased ire of the US and European airline industry in recent years, as they have rapidly expanded their networks and ordered hundreds of new widebody aircraft. Delta's chief executive Richard Anderson, in particular, has been especially vocal.

"A number of those [Middle Eastern] carriers are not airlines, they're governments," he said at the Global Business Travel Association (GBTA) convention in Los Angeles in July, adding that the Middle Eastern carriers have "huge subsidies and huge structural advantages".

"Broadly, we're in favour of open skies agreements but we're also in favour of fair skies agreements," Anderson said then. "While we certainly respect their right to operate, at least it needs to be on [a] fair and level basis."

Anderson's counterparts at American and United have also raised concerns about competition from Gulf carriers. American chief executive Doug Parker tells reporters at an event in Washington DC today: "You have to watch them closely and understand that they're a force to be reckoned with in the future if they keep expanding at those kind of rates."

United chief executive Jeff Smisek said at the GBTA convention in July that Middle Eastern carriers have a "huge advantage" compared to US airlines. "They're state subsidised, they're state controlled and they're viewed as an arm of the state itself for tourism, travel and trade.... Our government, and you've heard me say before, views us as an ATM machine or a piggy bank."

The Gulf carriers have repeatedly fired back at criticism from their US and European rivals, accusing them of being protectionist.


Interesting and a true test of America's liberal Open Skies policy. IMO the US should do nothing to block the MEB3 as ultimately the US consumer benefits, and true open skies has been the hallmark of US aviation for ages now. It's really up to the US airlines to forge alliances/ partnerships with the MEB3 if they want to work with them (similar to the way European airlines have open skies and deep partnerships with US carriers).


Yawnworthy.

Just grow up and compete. Stuff isn't going to stay the same.
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ameya
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. Infact the huge aircraft orders is a boon for USA (Boeing) in some form or other. None of the EU or US carriers are capable of ordering these many aircraft
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airindia787
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a bunch of hypocrites. They want full freedom to do whatever they want all over the world; but the minute a foreign carrier poses a threat to them they go screaming to the DOT or DOJ asking them to restrict the ability of that carrier to operate to the US. The ME3 are hardly the only ones subject to this, just look at what is going on with DY as another example.

Ultimately, I don't think the US government should do anything, unless they can clearly prove that the ME3 are engaging in anti-competitive measures. Since that is very difficult to prove, we won't be seeing anything happening anytime soon.

I think it is a matter of time before we start to see US carriers partnering with the ME3. They may be complaining now, but eventually they will do it if they realize that doing so is good for their bottom line (Since that is the only thing these CEOs really care about).
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Spiderguy252
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should go the Qantas way and forge an alliance of some sort.
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

airindia787 wrote:
What a bunch of hypocrites. They want full freedom to do whatever they want all over the world; but the minute a foreign carrier poses a threat to them they go screaming to the DOT or DOJ asking them to restrict the ability of that carrier to operate to the US. The ME3 are hardly the only ones subject to this, just look at what is going on with DY as another example.

Ultimately, I don't think the US government should do anything, unless they can clearly prove that the ME3 are engaging in anti-competitive measures. Since that is very difficult to prove, we won't be seeing anything happening anytime soon.

I think it is a matter of time before we start to see US carriers partnering with the ME3. They may be complaining now, but eventually they will do it if they realize that doing so is good for their bottom line (Since that is the only thing these CEOs really care about).


Arent they the same bunch of crooks who wanted to put pressure on EXIM Bank to desist from financing the AI B787 purchase ?Now when the chilli-pepper is lighting up a fire in the you-know-where, they start cribbing ?

Let it come to a state when Delta Airlines become a subsidiary of some Bedouin carrier, for all I care.
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Devesh
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish, for ardent hunters of low fares and maximum benefits for passengers, I recommend this story

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/opinion-how-our-love-cheap-airfares-may-be-hurting-aviation-industry

Opinion: How Our Love Of Cheap Airfares May Be Hurting The Aviation Industry
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devesh wrote:
Nimish, for ardent hunters of low fares and maximum benefits for passengers, I recommend this story

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/opinion-how-our-love-cheap-airfares-may-be-hurting-aviation-industry

Opinion: How Our Love Of Cheap Airfares May Be Hurting The Aviation Industry


Devesh - what's the link you're drawing between this story and the topic of this thread?
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Devesh
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
Devesh wrote:
Nimish, for ardent hunters of low fares and maximum benefits for passengers, I recommend this story

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/opinion-how-our-love-cheap-airfares-may-be-hurting-aviation-industry

Opinion: How Our Love Of Cheap Airfares May Be Hurting The Aviation Industry


Devesh - what's the link you're drawing between this story and the topic of this thread?


Quote:
..... IMO the US should do nothing to block the MEB3 as ultimately the US consumer benefits ......
Nimish, you advocate no interference so that the consumer benefits. I was trying to highlight that many times, short term gains, lead to long term losses, and someone ultimately has to pay the price.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Devesh wrote:
Nimish, you advocate no interference so that the consumer benefits. I was trying to highlight that many times, short term gains, lead to long term losses, and someone ultimately has to pay the price.


Ah - I get it now. The US should then introduce extra taxes or something like that (to the MEB3) if they think they're dumping capacity. If not, just grin and bear it.
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