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avbuff
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5031
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 Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:45 am Post subject: Lufthansa Bangalore Load Factor |
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Since we had the discussion of the possibility of a BLR MUC flight. Here are some stats for BLR FRA:
* For FY 2014-15 the overall SF% on LH 754/755 has been approximately 74.8%
* For the FY 2014-15 the Business Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 45%
* For the FY 2014-15 the first Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 4%
Above data includes pax flown on LH only including pax ticketed from partner airlines.
Data does not include mileage upgrades at check in counters and inflight |
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:20 am Post subject: |
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Interesting...so the IT Express hasn't been going exactly chock-a-block. What do you feel in terms of the feasibility for a BLR-MUC, given that currently most would do MUC-FRA and vice versa on LH 101/100, followed by LH 754/755?
The two direct MUC-India flights to DEL and BOM do not have reasonable connections at the India end one way, meaning that the traffic for DEL/BOM would possibly be quite good. How are LH 764/765 (MUC-BOM) and LH 762/763 doing?
Thanks, Sumantra. |
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B-HOX
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Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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'Bangalore Express' no more.
Off topic, can we have the corresponding figures for dragonair 154/153 please? |
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avbuff
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5031
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| sumantra wrote: | Interesting...so the IT Express hasn't been going exactly chock-a-block. What do you feel in terms of the feasibility for a BLR-MUC, given that currently most would do MUC-FRA and vice versa on LH 101/100, followed by LH 754/755?
The two direct MUC-India flights to DEL and BOM do not have reasonable connections at the India end one way, meaning that the traffic for DEL/BOM would possibly be quite good. How are LH 764/765 (MUC-BOM) and LH 762/763 doing?
Thanks, Sumantra. |
BOM/DEL are miles aead in terms of market size versus the other metros. It's not even a comparison.
You can refer to this thread for some earlier statistics I presented.
| B-HOX wrote: |
'Bangalore Express' no more.
Off topic, can we have the corresponding figures for dragonair 154/153 please? |
It is/was called the Bangalore express only becasue it was possibly the only one stop option between SFO and BLR. Now at least 6 carriers give you a one stop option between SFO and BLR.
I'll try to get KA 154/153. |
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sumantra
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Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| avbuff wrote: | BOM/DEL are miles aead in terms of market size versus the other metros. It's not even a comparison.
You can refer to this thread for some earlier statistics I presented. |
Ah yes, thank you, Ojas! |
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ameya
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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 3671
Location: Pune,Maharashtra
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:40 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Ojas - some eye opening statistics.
LH clearly has to play the game of costs now with EK/QR/EY-9W giving good connections from BLR to entire USA. I think major markets in USA are now covered by the ME3 which gets the decision down to cost, service and FFP.
While senior folks may have a choice of carrier based on FFP, the majority who travel have to travel with cheapest option and that more often than not is ME3.
Either the positioning or the genuine difference in service, also makes people choose ME3 over LH.
My experience with LH has been good most of the times except 1 DEL-MUC one and I have flown only EY out of ME3 but I found EY crew to be more receptive to asians and migrant workers than what LH was but food on LH was way better than that on EY.
Offcourse EK is a superior story I am told.
But with loads like this, I m wondering of 748 is an overall or is LH playing a superior product game?
May be it ll make sense to have 744 on 4 days and 748 on 3 - only if they can balance it with some other station may be!
BLR-MUC looks a distant dream going by the numbers
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5Patel
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Joined: 02 Oct 2014
Posts: 117
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ameya wrote: | While senior folks may have a choice of carrier based on FFP, the majority who travel have to travel with cheapest option and that more often than not is ME3.
Either the positioning or the genuine difference in service, also makes people choose ME3 over LH.
But with loads like this, I m wondering of 748 is an overall or is LH playing a superior product game?
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My only travel on LH was BOM-FRA-DFW and return JFK-FRA-BOM in July 2012. BOM-FRA was on a 748 with non-functioning AC while on ground and FRA-BOM was without PTVs. Similar experience for my parents travelling a month later on BOM-FRA, MUC-BOM routes. Food and service was far inferior compared to FRA-DFW and JFK-FRA routes. Could feel like third worldly attitude by LH on Indian routes. They might have changed now and giving out ads on TV and print but the first impression is hard to change. |
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Nimish
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: Lufthansa Bangalore Load Factor |
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| avbuff wrote: | Since we had the discussion of the possibility of a BLR MUC flight. Here are some stats for BLR FRA:
* For FY 2014-15 the overall SF% on LH 754/755 has been approximately 74.8%
* For the FY 2014-15 the Business Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 45%
* For the FY 2014-15 the first Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 4%
Above data includes pax flown on LH only including pax ticketed from partner airlines.
Data does not include mileage upgrades at check in counters and inflight |
Thanks for the data.
Taking last year's config of 8F/ 80J and 298Y (this year is changed due to the Y+ seating) - turns out that:
1 F seat sold every 3 days => 117 seats sold out of 2920 annual capacity (4%)
36 J seats sold daily (45%)
258 Y seats sold daily (85%)
4% on First implies that the entire first goes empty all the time, and only rarely is there a person in first. LH should consider doing away with F altogether for the market.
J at 45% is probably not too bad as weekends will be closer to full and week days will be lower loads.
85% of Y is the bummer - esp. given the empty F and mid level J - LH should oversell Y and bump up premier pax more often.
Overall could be better, but probably not doing too badly for LH given they price their tickets pretty high, esp. as the flight's filling up.
I wonder if LH is thinking of getting a few a/c configured with no F and more Y? That itself could help a lot on the BLR route.
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airbus340
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Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Posts: 465
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| Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: Lufthansa Bangalore Load Factor |
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| Nimish wrote: | | avbuff wrote: | Since we had the discussion of the possibility of a BLR MUC flight. Here are some stats for BLR FRA:
* For FY 2014-15 the overall SF% on LH 754/755 has been approximately 74.8%
* For the FY 2014-15 the Business Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 45%
* For the FY 2014-15 the first Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 4%
Above data includes pax flown on LH only including pax ticketed from partner airlines.
Data does not include mileage upgrades at check in counters and inflight |
Thanks for the data.
Taking last year's config of 8F/ 80J and 298Y (this year is changed due to the Y+ seating) - turns out that:
1 F seat sold every 3 days => 117 seats sold out of 2920 annual capacity (4%)
36 J seats sold daily (45%)
258 Y seats sold daily (85%)
4% on First implies that the entire first goes empty all the time, and only rarely is there a person in first. LH should consider doing away with F altogether for the market.
J at 45% is probably not too bad as weekends will be closer to full and week days will be lower loads.
85% of Y is the bummer - esp. given the empty F and mid level J - LH should oversell Y and bump up premier pax more often.
Overall could be better, but probably not doing too badly for LH given they price their tickets pretty high, esp. as the flight's filling up.
I wonder if LH is thinking of getting a few a/c configured with no F and more Y? That itself could help a lot on the BLR route. |
LH is putting up a solid fight against the ME 3 and yet trying to maintain yeilds . Thats probably why they arent as busy .
As far as flying the 747-8 goes . Well its the best product . They cant lag behind any other airline on that front too .
Just like has been pointed out , they are busy in J on weekends and not so busy during the week . I guess LH are happy with that .
Filling up Y is easy . Drop fares and fill it up but i guess LH doesnt wanna do that , which too is understandable .
My take is this . Hopefully with no more seats alloted to the ME3 and traffic growing , the European airlines will see a rise in both loads and yeilds .
Y+ is a great addition too . In this case Y+ is at the expense of Y seats which is good as lesser Y seats to fill up and Y+ offers incremental revenue . |
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TKMCE
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 957
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | 85% of Y is the bummer - esp. given the empty F and mid level J - LH should oversell Y and bump up premier pax more often |
May be I am a very ignorant guy, but if this happens will not some of the shrewder J pax book Y and then claim an upgrade because of their premier status???
I am not a jet setter, hence please pardon my ignorance if it is a dumb observation. |
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TKMCE
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 957
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| Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Filling up Y is easy . Drop fares and fill it up but i guess LH doesnt wanna do that , which too is understandable |
This is what some airlines in India are doing. At the average yield they are getting, even with their fantastic seat factors, the break even will be at around 125-150%.
But most people here don't want to hear about yield!!!! |
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sshank
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 377
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Lufthansa Bangalore Load Factor |
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| avbuff wrote: | Since we had the discussion of the possibility of a BLR MUC flight. Here are some stats for BLR FRA:
* For FY 2014-15 the overall SF% on LH 754/755 has been approximately 74.8%
* For the FY 2014-15 the Business Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 45%
* For the FY 2014-15 the first Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 4%
Above data includes pax flown on LH only including pax ticketed from partner airlines.
Data does not include mileage upgrades at check in counters and inflight |
Interesting stats Ojas! The F loads are just sad; now that UA had made partner F kinda expensive, this is not even an option for award travel.
Is there seasonality here that LH could take advantage off? i.e. drop 1 flight a week on off seasons? |
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Nimish
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Joined: 16 Dec 2006
Posts: 9757
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Lufthansa Bangalore Load Factor |
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| sshank wrote: | | Is there seasonality here that LH could take advantage off? i.e. drop 1 flight a week on off seasons? |
I think they do that at times - I vaguely remember 6 weekly flights some time ago.
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sshank
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Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 377
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Lufthansa Bangalore Load Factor |
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| avbuff wrote: | Since we had the discussion of the possibility of a BLR MUC flight. Here are some stats for BLR FRA:
* For FY 2014-15 the overall SF% on LH 754/755 has been approximately 74.8%
* For the FY 2014-15 the Business Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 45%
* For the FY 2014-15 the first Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 4%
Above data includes pax flown on LH only including pax ticketed from partner airlines.
Data does not include mileage upgrades at check in counters and inflight |
Ojas - do the loads for LH from DEL / BOM materially differ from this - i.e. are they filling the front on a more consistent basis compared to BLR? I would assume they do, but it will be interesting to see the numbers. |
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avbuff
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 5031
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| Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| sshank wrote: | | avbuff wrote: | Since we had the discussion of the possibility of a BLR MUC flight. Here are some stats for BLR FRA:
* For FY 2014-15 the overall SF% on LH 754/755 has been approximately 74.8%
* For the FY 2014-15 the Business Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 45%
* For the FY 2014-15 the first Class SF% on LH 754/755 has been 4%
Above data includes pax flown on LH only including pax ticketed from partner airlines.
Data does not include mileage upgrades at check in counters and inflight |
Ojas - do the loads for LH from DEL / BOM materially differ from this - i.e. are they filling the front on a more consistent basis compared to BLR? I would assume they do, but it will be interesting to see the numbers. |
Yes, the premium passengers ex BOM and DEL are more when compared to BLR, HYD and MAA. The J and F segments are very strong in BOM and DEL. Rest of the places you need to take a lot of efforts to bring in the J demand. |
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