Airliners-India Flickr Group    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  AIRLINES QUICKLY GOING OUTTA BUSINESS.. IN US AND ELSEWHERE. Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next          Airliners-India Forum Index -> Civil Aviation View previous topic :: View next topic   xterra Member Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 257 Location: DONT KNO Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: AIRLINES QUICKLY GOING OUTTA BUSINESS.. IN US AND ELSEWHERE. it has been a very ugly week for the airline industry in the USA first ALOHA, then Champion Air ( only charters ) then the big one.. ATA this was really unbelievable news. dunno which other carriers will follow suit. Last edited by xterra on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total Back to top Nimish Member Joined: 16 Dec 2006 Posts: 3348 Location: Bangalore, India Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: This is what the market driven economy is all about. It's sad to see these carriers fail, and even sadder to think about the employees and their families. However, no point in letting a loss making entity continue to bleed further. With the worldwide shortage of skilled aviation professionals, there's no reason to believe the redundant employees will not land jobs again (if no where else, then in the gulf or India). _________________ We miss you Nalini! Back to top Karan69 Member Joined: 22 Dec 2006 Posts: 548 Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: I read a report on airliners.net about someone taking the last flight on Aloha, the way it was written got me all emotional too, Americans are very brand loyal and hence get emotional just look at the number of replies to ATA closure thread on airliners.net, BTW, did anyone see the report on Qantas Link/QF pilots yesterday on Australia Network, i say this with regards to Nimish statement about job opportunities in India / Gulf, Karan _________________ Nalini Forever... Back to top airindia787 Member Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 487 Location: Stamford, CT Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: The US is definitely in a recession. 3 airlines in 2 days is a lot of airlines to go. I hope other airlines don't follow. _________________ "My longest flight was 18 hours - Singapore to New York on a very slow Airbus" - Tom Brokaw Back to top ryder1650 Member Joined: 17 Jul 2007 Posts: 142 Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:44 am    Post subject: airindia787 wrote: The US is definitely in a recession. 3 airlines in 2 days is a lot of airlines to go. I hope other airlines don't follow. Sure there are signs of recession, but 3 airlines failing does not mean that the sky is falling. Keep in mind that these three carriers were doing poorly for several years. If you look at percentage of US domestic passengers carried by these airlines, I'd bet that it is very low. Also, more importantly, look at where Aloha and ATA fly to. Both had mainland US to Hawaii flights as their primary operation. This has been long known to be a very low yield sector because it is almost 100% vacation travelers. In fact, most of the legacy airlines fly to Hawaii to placate their Frequent Flier base as many people want to use their miles to fly to Hawaii for vacation. As for Champion Air. They are a small charter airline that has a fleet of 16 very old Boeing 727s. It is not economical to fly these gas guzzlers these days and since they do not have the capital to invest into fuel efficient aircraft, they had no choice but to call it quits. This is just a natural adjustment of the industry that needed to happen in order to help keep the rest of the airlines afloat. This loss of number of seats to Hawaii and for inter-island flights, will benefit Hawaiian Airlines immensely, so it will hopefully prevent HA from having further financial trouble in the short term. Sure there will inevitably more airlines that fail, that is inherent to a market economy. Keep a close eye on Frontier. Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: Quite frankly I was surprised ATA lasted as long as it did. I guess Southwest's cash infusion just delayed the inevitable. They were a nice airline. I flew them a few times before they stopped their Newark service. I think they'll be missed. Champion did mostly sports charters from what I understand. Others that did this (like Miami Air) have been switching to 737s which sip a lot less fuel so they were gaining an advantage. Aloha has been on the verge of bankruptcy for a while now, no surprise there. Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:22 am    Post subject: And Skybus makes four: http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/business/stories/2008/04/04/skybust.html Didn't even last a year. Back to top xterra Member Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 257 Location: DONT KNO Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: its getting almost one carrier in 2 days now.. dunno who will be the next? alitalia? frontier? or alligent.. ? Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 954 Location: SRQ Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Skyway operates it's last flight today. And don't forget Big Sky, who went belly up a few weeks ago. The guys at Justplanes.com have been maintaining this list of Defunct Airlines for years now (though they had stopped to do so for a while, but recently restarted it), to which I am a contributor (keep my eye out for them for US regionals that shut shop). It is a great tool that can be found here : http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: xterra wrote: its getting almost one carrier in 2 days now.. dunno who will be the next? alitalia? frontier? or alligent.. ? Well Alitalia is obviously not a US airline. Seriously though, I can see the other two filing soon and perhaps Sun Country. Back to top Manny Member Joined: 10 Feb 2007 Posts: 165 Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:57 pm    Post subject: Karan69 wrote: Americans are very brand loyal and hence get emotional just look at the number of replies to ATA closure thread on airliners.net, Karan When it comes to flying Americans are not brand loyal they are mileage point hogs. So for the normal population out there this wasn't an emotional event unless they had huge amount of uncashed miles in the closed airlines mileage program. The people getting emotional are the employees, ex-employees & the aviation, airline enthusiasts. And all sympathies for their loss. Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 954 Location: SRQ Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:29 pm    Post subject: sammyk wrote: Seriously though, I can see the other two filing soon and perhaps Sun Country. Sun Country & Frontier are surely on that list. I recent flew PIE-GSP-PIE on Allegiant & they were packed on both flts., though that is not a true indicator of their chances of going bust. Seaborne Airlines (out of the U.S.V.I.) is also pretty close to the edge. ExpressJet too was said to be in a precarious state, though I am not totally sure about them. I believe with Skyway folding, it's the end of the DO 328 Jet (at least in North America). Perhaps we need to change the title of this thread !! Back to top HAWK21M Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 5007 Location: Mumbai, INDIA Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:34 pm    Post subject: About Opportunities for employees to work elsewhere.Apart from Pilots,Other personnell will struggle. Speaking of MX....A&P system & the worldwide EASA ICAO type II systems are very different. regds MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:39 pm    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: I recent flew PIE-GSP-PIE on Allegiant & they were packed on both flts., though that is not a true indicator of their chances of going bust. ExpressJet too was said to be in a precarious state, though I am not totally sure about them. Yah, a full flight doesn't mean much especially if it is only one a couple of routes that are busy. That and the cost of fuel probably negates any profit. Expressjet will probably go back to contract flying and discontinue their branded operations. Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: HAWK21M wrote: About Opportunities for employees to work elsewhere.Apart from Pilots,Other personnell will struggle. Speaking of MX....A&P system & the worldwide EASA ICAO type II systems are very different. regds MEL Couldn't they get re-certified for whatever country they are looking to work in? Suddenly they have a lot of time on their hands. Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 954 Location: SRQ Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: sammyk wrote: Couldn't they get re-certified for whatever country they are looking to work in? Suddenly they have a lot of time on their hands. Maybe find work in India ??? Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:46 pm    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: sammyk wrote: Couldn't they get re-certified for whatever country they are looking to work in? Suddenly they have a lot of time on their hands. Maybe find work in India ??? Yah but MEL was suggesting that they would have problems finding work elsewhere. I figure since they'll be unemployed they could take the time to get certified for other countries. Back to top HAWK21M Member Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 5007 Location: Mumbai, INDIA Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: sammyk wrote: 747-237 wrote: sammyk wrote: Couldn't they get re-certified for whatever country they are looking to work in? Suddenly they have a lot of time on their hands. Maybe find work in India ??? Yah but MEL was suggesting that they would have problems finding work elsewhere. I figure since they'll be unemployed they could take the time to get certified for other countries. They'll have to start from stratch out here. A&P has no value on Indian registed Aircraft.However EASA147 & soon to be introduced CAR147 will be similiar. regds MEL _________________ Think of the Brighter side !!! Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 954 Location: SRQ Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Just updated that list with a bunch of airlines that folded earlier this year, though most were not US based, except Boston-Maine Airways, Pan Am's final avatar, that collapsed about a month ago. 2008 could be a record year !!! http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html Back to top Illiana Member Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Posts: 27 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:50 am    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: Just updated that list with a bunch of airlines that folded earlier this year, though most were not US based, except Boston-Maine Airways, Pan Am's final avatar, that collapsed about a month ago. 2008 could be a record year !!! http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html Another update.. SKYBUS Folded too.... Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:40 am    Post subject: Illiana wrote: 747-237 wrote: Just updated that list with a bunch of airlines that folded earlier this year, though most were not US based, except Boston-Maine Airways, Pan Am's final avatar, that collapsed about a month ago. 2008 could be a record year !!! http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html Another update.. SKYBUS Folded too.... Yep, I mentioned it above... Back to top 747-237 Member Joined: 11 Jun 2007 Posts: 954 Location: SRQ Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:52 am    Post subject: sammyk wrote: Illiana wrote: 747-237 wrote: Just updated that list with a bunch of airlines that folded earlier this year, though most were not US based, except Boston-Maine Airways, Pan Am's final avatar, that collapsed about a month ago. 2008 could be a record year !!! http://www.justplanes.com/AirlineHist.html Another update.. SKYBUS Folded too.... Yep, I mentioned it above... True...and that was yesterday .......And it's on the list The airline of the day was Skyway. Wonder what (which) tomorrow brings ! Back to top malQ Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 547 Location: Delhi/Pune, India Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: I presume what this means is that a lot more active aircraft will suddenly descend on the international lease/resale market and prices will come down. This may also impact the cargo business, and most of all, this will bring in a lot more cockpit crew fighting for the same jobs. Stay tuned for the next episode of how the barons are out again, only this time it will be airlines, and not railroad. Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Aloha and ATA had 737NGs and 757s, Skybus brand new A32x so those should be snapped up pretty quickly. I'd bet Continental would take the 757s both -200 and -300. They already have some of ATA's -300s from a previous deal. Champion had 727s, those will head to the desert. Back to top G-BYGB Member Joined: 21 Dec 2006 Posts: 788 Location: Bangalore/Delhi Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:43 pm    Post subject: Airlines can still survive the stiff competition either by raising funds or by merging with other loss making carriers. It want be long now where we will see carriers like G8 and Paramount merging or being bought by other carriers. _________________ www.flickr.com/G-BYGB photos Back to top airindia787 Member Joined: 18 Nov 2007 Posts: 487 Location: Stamford, CT Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: 747-237 wrote: sammyk wrote: Seriously though, I can see the other two filing soon and perhaps Sun Country. Sun Country & Frontier are surely on that list. I recent flew PIE-GSP-PIE on Allegiant & they were packed on both flts., though that is not a true indicator of their chances of going bust. Seaborne Airlines (out of the U.S.V.I.) is also pretty close to the edge. ExpressJet too was said to be in a precarious state, though I am not totally sure about them. I believe with Skyway folding, it's the end of the DO 328 Jet (at least in North America). Perhaps we need to change the title of this thread !! I don't think F9 is on that list. They have a loyal customer base in DEN, and while they are cutting a few international flights, they are doing well in general. _________________ "My longest flight was 18 hours - Singapore to New York on a very slow Airbus" - Tom Brokaw Back to top sammyk Member Joined: 20 Dec 2006 Posts: 1849 Location: Austin, TX