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Kerry: Russia behaving like it's the 19th century
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justbala
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:05 am    Post subject: Kerry: Russia behaving like it's the 19th century Reply with quote

http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2014/03/kerry-russia-behaving-like-its-the-th-century-184280.html

Politicos say the darnedest things!!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russia is behaving like a bully. They need to get over their USSR hangover.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Russia is behaving like a bully. They need to get over their USSR hangover.


A case of the pot calling the kettle black?! Smile

The US invaded Iraq claiming WMDs which were never found and today takes the moral high ground?!
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:
The_Goat wrote:
Russia is behaving like a bully. They need to get over their USSR hangover.


A case of the pot calling the kettle black?! Smile

The US invaded Iraq claiming WMDs which were never found and today takes the moral high ground?!


Agreed, the US has invaded countries it had no business in. But that does not make the Russian action in Ukraine any more justifiable. Besides, the US was quite rightly condemned by all and sundry when they invaded Iraq.

But one is forced to wonder why nobody, particularly the 'emerging World Powers', is saying anything against the Russians now. Are the Ukranians so dispensable, or is it that they all have too much at stake in Russia's growing oil economy and don't want to ruffle Moscow's feathers? If this is so, then they are all as hypocritical as the US.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a completely different issue - more aviation-related, what will this mean for the Ukraine-based Antonov company? They are based in Ukraine, but have one plant in Russia. Russia's military strategic transport is mostly based on products from the Antonov line.
Cheers, Sumantra.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Agreed, the US has invaded countries it had no business in. But that does not make the Russian action in Ukraine any more justifiable. Besides, the US was quite rightly condemned by all and sundry when they invaded Iraq.

But one is forced to wonder why nobody, particularly the 'emerging World Powers', is saying anything against the Russians now. Are the Ukranians so dispensable, or is it that they all have too much at stake in Russia's growing oil economy and don't want to ruffle Moscow's feathers? If this is so, then they are all as hypocritical as the US.


American hypocrisy is a daily drama, so no surprises there.

As for Russia, this isn't a straightforward invasion for invasion's sake. And clearly they're not interested in all of the Ukraine. What's at stake is the Black Sea, which is very important geopolitically.

What the Americans really want is for the Ukraine to be in Nato. That way they can set up base and anchor a few carriers right at Russia's doorstep.

So I'm not condoning what Russia did, but I understand.

As for Putin, the man has serious balls. I'll give him that.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - I have a couple of colleagues in Sevastopol - right in the heart of the crisis. Chatting with them, it seems like over 90% of the Crimeans are happy with the Russians - because they support Russia instead of supporting Ukraine. There's a referendum at the end of March around Crimea's future, and the Russians are supposedly around until then to keep things sane. There's little chance of massive escalations in the Crimean region - as most folks there support the Russian invasion (they believe that Crimea is actually a part of Russia, and it's handing over to Ukraine was a mistake).
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
Well - I have a couple of colleagues in Sevastopol - right in the heart of the crisis. Chatting with them, it seems like over 90% of the Crimeans are happy with the Russians - because they support Russia instead of supporting Ukraine. There's a referendum at the end of March around Crimea's future, and the Russians are supposedly around until then to keep things sane. There's little chance of massive escalations in the Crimean region - as most folks there support the Russian invasion (they believe that Crimea is actually a part of Russia, and it's handing over to Ukraine was a mistake).

Interesting point of view, thanks.

Of course, just because the people living in the Crimea desire change, doesn't justify another country invading the Ukraine. But this is a slightly different situation. And it also seems that the local Crimean leadership asked Moscow to swing by. Still doesn't justify, but does show there's a lot more at play here.

And it clearly isn't an American-style invasion / war / murder / attack / plunder like Iraq.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
The_Goat wrote:
Agreed, the US has invaded countries it had no business in. But that does not make the Russian action in Ukraine any more justifiable. Besides, the US was quite rightly condemned by all and sundry when they invaded Iraq.

But one is forced to wonder why nobody, particularly the 'emerging World Powers', is saying anything against the Russians now. Are the Ukranians so dispensable, or is it that they all have too much at stake in Russia's growing oil economy and don't want to ruffle Moscow's feathers? If this is so, then they are all as hypocritical as the US.


American hypocrisy is a daily drama, so no surprises there.

As for Russia, this isn't a straightforward invasion for invasion's sake. And clearly they're not interested in all of the Ukraine. What's at stake is the Black Sea, which is very important geopolitically.

What the Americans really want is for the Ukraine to be in Nato. That way they can set up base and anchor a few carriers right at Russia's doorstep.

So I'm not condoning what Russia did, but I understand.

As for Putin, the man has serious balls. I'll give him that.


My understanding of the situation is exactly similar to what Jason explained.
Russia can't loose Crimea, plain and simple. They will do whatever it takes to keep it with them.

I just want to see how Ukraine survives economically... without Russia's cheap gas and money. Most of the traditional industries are in the eastern part which totally depend on Russian Gas.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAL@YWG wrote:
Russia can't loose Crimea, plain and simple. They will do whatever it takes to keep it with them.

I just want to see how Ukraine survives economically... without Russia's cheap gas and money. Most of the traditional industries are in the eastern part which totally depend on Russian Gas.


Not sure what you mean here PAL - Russia does not "own" Crimea to start with (it's an integral part of Ukraine) - hence there's no question of them "losing" Crimea. If you mean to say "Russia wants to take over Crimea" - then I could understand.


Ukraine by nimish_blr, on Flickr

Besides - Russia already has an incredible amount of access to the Black sea - towards the East of Crimea.

As far as the gas goes - I understand that not just does Ukraine consume Russian Gas, it's also a major transit point for the Russian Gas feeding large parts of Europe. Which is one of the reasons that Europe hesitates to take a strong stand against Russia - as then Russia can withhold gas supplies to Europe.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
Besides - Russia already has an incredible amount of access to the Black sea - towards the East of Crimea.

True. But their navy is based in the Crimea (and a few other places in the region). Though Ukranian territory, they got to keep the bases intact as part of the Soviet divorce settlement.

Of paramount importance is keeping Nato and American warships firmly out; it's not about direct access.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
PAL@YWG wrote:
Russia can't loose Crimea, plain and simple. They will do whatever it takes to keep it with them.

I just want to see how Ukraine survives economically... without Russia's cheap gas and money. Most of the traditional industries are in the eastern part which totally depend on Russian Gas.


Not sure what you mean here PAL - Russia does not "own" Crimea to start with (it's an integral part of Ukraine) - hence there's no question of them "losing" Crimea. If you mean to say "Russia wants to take over Crimea" - then I could understand.


Ukraine by nimish_blr, on Flickr

Besides - Russia already has an incredible amount of access to the Black sea - towards the East of Crimea.

As far as the gas goes - I understand that not just does Ukraine consume Russian Gas, it's also a major transit point for the Russian Gas feeding large parts of Europe. Which is one of the reasons that Europe hesitates to take a strong stand against Russia - as then Russia can withhold gas supplies to Europe.


Smile True, Russia doesn't own Crimea but Russia doesn't want to loosen it's grip on Crimea. The stakes are too high...Russia has no options

Anticipating that one day UKR will go EU/NATO way, Russia quietly developed Nord gas pipeline and currently working on South Stream pipeline. Both pipelines bypass UKR.

UKR's dependence on Russian energy is far greater than Russia's dependence on UKR as transit country for gas distribution.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Of paramount importance is keeping Nato and American warships firmly out; it's not about direct access.


That I agree - is key!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAL@YWG wrote:
Anticipating that one day UKR will go EU/NATO way, Russia quietly developed Nord gas pipeline and currently working on South Stream pipeline. Both pipelines bypass UKR.


Hmm - did not know that. Also interesting is that this whole crisis was precipitated by the Ukrainian govt. needing a pot of money (loans) which the EU offered only 10% of, while Russia offered 100% and more (much lower priced Gas - which even Mukesh bhai did not offer to Anil bhai Smile), and hence the govt. was inclined to look towards Russia instead of the EU. Now the bulk of the country - the Ukrainian stock youth - were desperate for the EU deal to go through - as that would imply free trade/ free movement across borders, and hence they started the protests last year against the move to Russia.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:


Of paramount importance is keeping Nato and American warships firmly out; it's not about direct access.


Russia can do nothing to keep the Nato and American warships out of the Black sea. Turkey is a NATO member with a long Black Sea coastline, and is also home to American long range nuclear tipped missiles with the ability to strike anywhere in eastern Russia. Romania and Bulgaria will also be only too happy to oblige the Americans, should need arise.

This is just posturing by the Russians, nothing else. They have a massive cold war hangover, kept alive by former KGB apparatchiks like Putin.

And the Russian minorities in the former Soviet republics are a bunch of whining thugs who keep threatening to raise arms at the slightest pretext. They are also actively supported by Russia. Just look at what the Estonians had to face when they decided to remove a Soviet era war memorial in Tallinn.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/may/17/topstories3.russia
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the interim Ukrainian Government has stated that they are going to forcefully throw the ethnic Russians out from Eastern Ukraine or deny them any rights.

So Putin need not worry of sending their troops to Crimea to protect those people. I'm sure the new Ukrainian administration are interested in having good political and trade relations with both the EU and Russians. It is a clear sign that people are more inclined towards following the Western way of life and values. China also should keenly follow this situation and slowly move towards democracy.

It is so sad to see that people are still interested in invasions, terrorism and killing innocent civilians even in the 21st century. All in the name of political survival and power.

On a lighter note, people from Kerala and West Bengal should demand for complete Capitalism and do away with Socialist brand of economics.

Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:


Of paramount importance is keeping Nato and American warships firmly out; it's not about direct access.


As of now, they are showing restraint and giving diplomacy a chance.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good read!

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/04/opinion/ukraine-west-russia-opinion/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ This article kind of aligns with what I hear from my colleagues in Sevastopol...
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
^^ This article kind of aligns with what I hear from my colleagues in Sevastopol...


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/what-putin-really-wants.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

Another well balanced article.

The_Goat wrote:
Russia can do nothing to keep the Nato and American warships out of the Black sea. Turkey is a NATO member with a long Black Sea coastline, and is also home to American long range nuclear tipped missiles with the ability to strike anywhere in eastern Russia. Romania and Bulgaria will also be only too happy to oblige the Americans, should need arise.


You forgot to mention that from Kaliningrad to Vladivostok and the land in between, Russian nukes can land pretty much anywhere in the world.
That's not the point. Point is Putin is outmaneuvering the west for quite sometime now. Whether it's Georgia, Syria or the Winter Olympics.

For threats like "We will kick Russia out of G8" or "We will freeze assets", Putin's silence essentially says "Take a break, have a Kit-kat Smile ".

What's the relevance of G8 in todays world? How big are the economies of Italy & Canada as compared to China & even India?

The private jet that carried John Kerry to Ukraine, I bet got fuelled by borrowed money from China against US Treasury Bonds that China buys from US on a regular basis. And for the UK Finance Minister who said" I am waiting for a phone call from new leaders of Ukraine with an open Cheque Book". Nobody asked him what he was holding in his hand...a chequebook from a defunct bank or unwanted Treasury Bills.

Now this one just landed.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6f7c0ab8-a486-11e3-9cb0-00144feab7de.html#axzz2v7vMkft3
It's the bankrupt nations who are huffing and puffing whereas country that matters in EU, Germany is taking the well known stand.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAL@YWG wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/05/opinion/what-putin-really-wants.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0

Another well balanced article.


Great read - thanks for sharing!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russia will not be able to get away from the visa sanctions planned to be imposed against them by the EU and the US. It may not affect them immediately but if Russia continues to keep their forces in Crimea, then it is going to bring their economy down.

There is going to be a referendum in Crimea, whether they want to breakaway from Ukraine.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Latest news is that the people of Crimea will decide whether to be a part of Russian federation or not within eight days, through a referendum. Already the Ukrainian foreign minister is adamant in not giving up this territory and has gone on to say that this referendum will not be binding.

Any outcome of this move in Ukraine should be monitored closely by Indian, J&K and Pakistan government. You would wonder why I'am drawing the parallels of the situation in Ukraine to that of India?

Because, let us take the 2 scenarios that are likely to take place.

1.) Should the people of Crimea vote in favour of being a separate country or be a part of Russia, then we might see a similar move done by the J&K separatists to either be a new independent nation or be a part of Pakistan.

2.) Secondly, if the international community and the interim Ukrainian Government, manages to keep a foothold on Crimea as a part of Ukraine itself, then Indian Government has the legitimate right to call for the entire state of J&K to be a part of Indian territory. This also includes the Ladakh region and the POK.

Either way, I think the double standards of the US is clearly exposed, where they talk of high morality and Rule of Law, only when it favours them and their allies. Otherwise, they take a very opposite decision.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Russian-interests-in-Crimea-legitimate-India/articleshow/31557852.cms

As far as India is concerned, it would have been better to make no comments. While Congress govt generally tends to or wants to support Russia, but in this case, it could backfire, since supporting Crimea referendum could come back to haunt India in Kashmir.

Sometimes the MEA does not think of consequences.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:


Sometimes the MEA does not think of consequences.


The present MEA cares two hoots. They know only too well that they are going to be in the opposition in a couple of months. They are just cooking things up so that the new government will be forced to deal with the resulting mess.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putin is an astute politician and a strategist. He is exposing the duplicity of the West very well here, as mentioned in an earlier post.
One the one hand the Western countries posit themselves as beacons of freedom and democracy and on the other hand they refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the Crimean referendum !!

Sometimes an ambiguous position on murky issues is better than yapping your mouth off and then receiving an earful back.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
Putin is an astute politician and a strategist. He is exposing the duplicity of the West very well here, as mentioned in an earlier post.
One the one hand the Western countries posit themselves as beacons of freedom and democracy and on the other hand they refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the Crimean referendum !!

Sometimes an ambiguous position on murky issues is better than yapping your mouth off and then receiving an earful back.


Russian nationalists form a majority of Crimea's population, and Putin knew that only too well. The result of the referendum was a foregone conclusion.

If Putin thinks he is a great world leader, he should conduct a similar referendum in Chechnya. Everyone, including Putin, is aware of what the outcome will be then.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:


If Putin thinks he is a great world leader, he should conduct a similar referendum in Chechnya. Everyone, including Putin, is aware of what the outcome will be then.


Or better still, Putin should create an all inclusive society where the moderate Muslims are being politically and economically represented.

The current situation in Chechnya is that the fundamentalist or Jihadists are calling the shots. If there is to be a referendum in that region; the localites will opt for a nationhood. My fear is that the Muslim fundamentalists will call for bringing Sharia law. That is dangerous for moderate Muslims.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
Putin is an astute politician and a strategist. He is exposing the duplicity of the West very well here, as mentioned in an earlier post.
One the one hand the Western countries posit themselves as beacons of freedom and democracy and on the other hand they refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the Crimean referendum !!

Sometimes an ambiguous position on murky issues is better than yapping your mouth off and then receiving an earful back.


I think the two are very different matters. And whilst the hypocrisy is pervasive, there is a leg to stand on when it comes to "boycotting" the referendum.

Picture this:
- West Bengal decides they want to leave the union (and become part of Bangladesh) without an external occupying force or outside influence
- West Bengal is occupied by Bangladesh and then, whilst under occupation, there's a referendum on reunification with Bangladesh

What reaction of the governments (in Dilly and Washington and London and Paris) will be palatable then?

In the case of the Crimea, the conclusion of a referendum would likely be the same, regardless of Russian occupation. But the situation does make a big difference, even if on paper.

That said, at least a couple of these countries have had situations where a province does what to break away. And they have enabled referendums to be held, with legal obligations to uphold the outcome. Of course, they do all they can to dissuade people from voting to break away, but then that's the point of a country and a national government.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today, Putin spoke to the Russian parliament and he criticized the double standards of the US and the EU's move to impose sanctions on some of their industrialists.

But it is going to backfire on Putin as his economy will pay the price for not allowed to business activities with all these nations.

There is nothing that is going to stop the US from deciding what is right and what is wrong to the rest of the world. They are using 'Democracy' as an excuse to 'Colonize' or should I say 'Americanize' the world.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:


Picture this:
- West Bengal decides they want to leave the union (and become part of Bangladesh) without an external occupying force or outside influence
- West Bengal is occupied by Bangladesh and then, whilst under occupation, there's a referendum on reunification with Bangladesh

What reaction of the governments (in Dilly and Washington and London and Paris) will be palatable then?

You know what , I believe in this scenario, the Washington-wallas will be only too happy to support Bangaladesh in return for presence in Bay of Bengal and a strategic base- not to mention a new FDI market for Uncle Sam. And London and (to some extent) Paris are anyways tail-coats of Washington.

So to sum up, the West will support whatever suits their interests- which is the real duplicity here.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
jasepl wrote:


Picture this:
- West Bengal decides they want to leave the union (and become part of Bangladesh) without an external occupying force or outside influence
- West Bengal is occupied by Bangladesh and then, whilst under occupation, there's a referendum on reunification with Bangladesh

What reaction of the governments (in Dilly and Washington and London and Paris) will be palatable then?

You know what , I believe in this scenario, the Washington-wallas will be only too happy to support Bangaladesh in return for presence in Bay of Bengal and a strategic base- not to mention a new FDI market for Uncle Sam. And London and (to some extent) Paris are anyways tail-coats of Washington.

So to sum up, the West will support whatever suits their interests- which is the real duplicity here.


Like they have been doing with Pakistan for these many years. Pakistan has never been a stable democracy and yet they have got all the aids, military equipments and most importantly part of J&K, that is still occupied by them.

US sees India as an economic threat to them. So by not acting firmly against the militias in Pakistan and Bangladesh, they are indirectly trying to destabilize India, even though we are a democracy.

US has never forcefully reiterated that the whole state of J&K is lawfully India's unlike what they are current stand is towards Ukraine, regarding the state of Crimea.

Whether a country is a democracy or governed by dictators, if they pose a threat to the strategic interest of the US, then they will be troubled by this superpower.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? Self-victimisation here too? For a benign, purely hypothetical scenario that was meant solely to be an analogy? Wow.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
Chatting with them, it seems like over 90% of the Crimeans are happy with the Russians - because they support Russia instead of supporting Ukraine. There's a referendum at the end of March around Crimea's future, and the Russians are supposedly around until then to keep things sane.

So will Russia allow a referendum in Chechnya or other provinces? I think not.

As jasepl said it doesn't justify invading a nation and more disturbingly (because we havnt seen this in a while) taking away territory.

justbala wrote:
A case of the pot calling the kettle black?! Smile

The US invaded Iraq claiming WMDs which were never found and today takes the moral high ground?!

Absolutely, however that doesn't make them wrong (taken less seriously maybe but the point is still valid)
What about the Europeans? Why is everyone else keeping their mouth shut?

Placing boots/tanks on the ground is one thing- annexing territory and absorbing part of another nation is.

ssbmat wrote:
One the one hand the Western countries posit themselves as beacons of freedom and democracy and on the other hand they refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the Crimean referendum !!

Sometimes an ambiguous position on murky issues is better than yapping your mouth off and then receiving an earful back.

Errrr .... not recognising a local referendum equals abandoning freedom/democracy? So what next, J&K, parts of China/Russia/Malaysia/Indonesia/Turkey etc have referendums and Beijing/New Delhi/Islamabad/Papeete claim those territories???
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:
So will Russia allow a referendum in Chechnya or other provinces? I think not.

Clearly not.

stealthpilot wrote:
As jasepl said it doesn't justify invading a nation and more disturbingly (because we havnt seen this in a while) taking away territory.

Absolutely true. Nothing justifies Russia calling Crimea a part of Russia - not even the referendum. They have to deal with Ukraine and either beg/ borrow or buy Crimea from Ukraine if they want it so bad. It's for Ukraine to deal with their internal referendum and it's result.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An offbeat story here - http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking-news/world/story/crimea-attorney-general-captures-hearts-japanese-fans-20140320
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole situation unfolded mainly because of the concern on the part of Russia that the ethnic Russians might be victimized by the right wing politicians in Kiev. There was even a talk of banning Russian languages.

I feel Putin could have made a sensible move of having a dialogue with the interim Ukrainian government about the safety of ethnic Russians. Rather than proceed swiftly with referendum in Crimea.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
stealthpilot wrote:
So will Russia allow a referendum in Chechnya or other provinces? I think not.

Clearly not.


I don't see that taking place, irrespective of whoever may be the Russian government in the future. Russia might consider a referendum in Chechnya, if they get convinced that its territory might not be used for creating terrorism against the Russians.
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PAL@YWG
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
Nimish wrote:
stealthpilot wrote:
So will Russia allow a referendum in Chechnya or other provinces? I think not.

Clearly not.


I don't see that taking place, irrespective of whoever may be the Russian government in the future. Russia might consider a referendum in Chechnya, if they get convinced that its territory might not be used for creating terrorism against the Russians.


I don't know why the question of referendum in Chechnya is coming up.
After two wars, Chechnya's militants who are funded and manned by Saudi Arabia & Qatar (no surprises here) are more or less eliminated. Grozny, the capital of Chechnya is now a modern city with lots of money flowing in from Moscow and other places. The last well known Chechen militant who threatened to blow up Sochi Olympics and who was contacted by the Fascist leaders of Ukraine thru social media to make a terrorist attack has just got killed last week.

Vodka drinking & womanizing Muslims in Russia live peaceful life contrary to most of the Muslim nations on this planet. Tatarstan, Bashkirostan are big provinces with lots of Muslim population. Chechnya is an exception because of direct interference from Gulf fiefdoms. Chechen terrorists are pawns in the whole game. Read the article below:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/10266957/Saudis-offer-Russia-secret-oil-deal-if-it-drops-Syria.html

When Putin was pulverizing the Chechen terrorists in the second Chechen war, Hillary Clinton, McCain among others were shouting at the top of the voices about Chechen's human rights. Not long back Boston Marathon bombers of Chechen origin took their great cause to the US soil and the irony is that they could easily migrate to US because they were supposedly oppressed by Russia.

There can't be any referendum in places like Chechnya or Jammu & Kashmir. These places are under control of big powerful countries who will hold on to them at any cost, like it or not.

Putin's Russia is not Yeltsin's Russia where half-fed 16 year old conscripts were sent to first Chechen war as cannon fodders. Putin has rebuilt the army.

As far as Ukraine is concerned, they are still getting gas at deep discounted price and population is heating their homes at 20% of the market price of gas. Let the gas price go back to market price and let IMF lend them some money with painful austerity measures to implement. Expect a new round of protests soon at EuroMaidan.

Fall of USSR did give the US and its followers a great chance to be the leader of a new world order but after Iraq, Afganistan, Serbia, Egypt - world is better off in a multi-polar or at least a bi-polar arrangement.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Pal, that was an awesome write-up: very interesting analysis. I am completely wonder-struck at the breadth of your knowledge, and the depth as well!
Cheers, Sumantra.
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