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NaMo For PM?
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G-BYGB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:


I wonder if people who are all gung-ho about Modi will be just as gung-ho if he were a Congress politician.


I don't think Modi would have got a ticket to participle in a Gujarat assembly election, if he were a Congress politician or be a party member even. Because Congress does not believe in Hindutva ideology.

I think this whole Modi hype is the creation of our media.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
jasepl wrote:


I wonder if people who are all gung-ho about Modi will be just as gung-ho if he were a Congress politician.


I don't think Modi would have got a ticket to participle in a Gujarat assembly election, if he were a Congress politician or be a party member even. Because Congress does not believe in Hindutva ideology.

I think this whole Modi hype is the creation of our media.

Oh I agree. I was wondering about the champions here on this site. Would they still say that Modi - warts and all - is the national messiah if he were from a non-mandir party?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
G-BYGB wrote:
jasepl wrote:


I wonder if people who are all gung-ho about Modi will be just as gung-ho if he were a Congress politician.


I don't think Modi would have got a ticket to participle in a Gujarat assembly election, if he were a Congress politician or be a party member even. Because Congress does not believe in Hindutva ideology.

I think this whole Modi hype is the creation of our media.

Oh I agree. I was wondering about the champions here on this site. Would they still say that Modi - warts and all - is the national messiah if he were from a non-mandir party?


Modi is a hype fuelled by our TV and Social media.

There are people who swear by Modi because he is responsible for "developing" Gujarat. Probe a little as to what exactly he did in that direction - most people have no clue. The closest I got was "he built solar cells on top of canals". Then of course there are pics of Rapid Bus Transport from Chinese cities passing of as evidence of Modi's magic in Gujarat.

If you remember that discussion we had on this forum about Foreign airlines not sending their best a/c to India - read through the comments - there are atleast a dozen that claim that this problem would be solved if Modi became the PM Wink

Having said all that he could benefit from a TINA factor - with Rahul Gandhi/MMS and the Congress going from blunder to blunder, Modi just might make it.

Personally for me the lesser of all evils is Congress - corrupt and clueless as they maybe, I wud prefer them over radicals who wish to control what I eat.

The less said abt the third front the better.
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G-BYGB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

justbala wrote:


Having said all that he could benefit from a TINA factor - with Rahul Gandhi/MMS and the Congress going from blunder to blunder, Modi just might make it.

Personally for me the lesser of all evils is Congress - corrupt and clueless as they maybe, I wud prefer them over radicals who wish to control what I eat.

The less said abt the third front the better.


I agree. That is exactly the reason why for 61 yrs out of our 66 yrs independence, people have reluctantly kept Congress (alone and with its allies) in power at the centre. Because they have kept different communities glued together, unlike its major opponent, the BJP.

Modi has spelled it out clearly, in some of his rally that he wants to make India a 'Hindu Raj' which is dangerous for our country.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
Modi has spelled it out clearly, in some of his rally that he wants to make India a 'Hindu Raj' which is dangerous for our country.


Religion has no place in govt. whether Hindu-raj or pseudo-secular. I don't think the BJP/Modi have ever declared that they plan to change the constitution and take us from a secular state to a Hindu-Raj.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
G-BYGB wrote:
Modi has spelled it out clearly, in some of his rally that he wants to make India a 'Hindu Raj' which is dangerous for our country.


Religion has no place in govt. whether Hindu-raj or pseudo-secular. I don't think the BJP/Modi have ever declared that they plan to change the constitution and take us from a secular state to a Hindu-Raj.

Possibly. But they could if they would, in some shape or form.

I'm a bit extreme in this I know, but I dream of French-style secularism : not just freedom of religion, but freedom from religion.
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the latest from his Jr Highness.

http://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/rahul-gandhis-escape-velocity-10-funniest-tweets-105582.html

Suffice to say-
Wise men state, it is better to be with a crafty, wily person than a bumbling fool.


@jasepl- I totally agree with French style secularism- see the enormous amount of struggle the law makers are having to preserve their vision of secularism. Imagine if someone were to even attempt to bring in this in India- our beloved INC would have trampled all over it..as they have with respect to Shah bano verdict.

Advani - of all the people has always propagated Uniform Civil Code as a means to avoid minority appeasement- which in turn was looked at by pseudo secularists as majority-empowerment. Uniform Civil Code is one good step towards French style secularism.

In the same context- are we going to allow France style law to avoid overt religious symbolism in public- including removal of veils, , Turbans or Saffron mark on the forehead ?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Possibly. But they could if they would, in some shape or form


Come on Jasepl, surely you don't think that's going to happen in India? Not where vote banks count for everything? And where the vast majority Hindu population does not care for or want a Hindu state? If they did, they would have never voted the INC in for ~55 of the 60+ years of independence.
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G-BYGB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
jasepl wrote:
Possibly. But they could if they would, in some shape or form


Come on Jasepl, surely you don't think that's going to happen in India? Not where vote banks count for everything? And where the vast majority Hindu population does not care for or want a Hindu state? If they did, they would have never voted the INC in for ~55 of the 60+ years of independence.


There is nothing to worry. It is never going to happen. Now a days, voters are more concerned about good governance rather than temple politics or caste politics.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:
Wise men state, it is better to be with a crafty, wily person than a bumbling fool.

Perhaps. But is a crafty, wily, genocidal mass-murderer better than a bumbling, foolish Jr HIghness?

I guess I will repeat : I do not think the Guiottiner of Gujarat ought to be Prime Minister at all.

Not because of his beliefs or his religion or his political party affiliation. But because of him as an individual and his past as an elected leader. And we're not talking small potatoes, such as money or affairs or nepotism or illegitimate children; we're talking blood. Lots of blood. Very different problems.

And his supposed administrative skills are as much an eyewash as anything else. And, really, if you think the BJP isn't full of corrupt money-grabbers or that the Gujarat government - starting at the top - doesn't extract their tons of gold-coloured flesh for every "file" they "pass" in record time then you have another thing coming. The state is rife with greed, corruption, bribery, land grabs, forced acquisitions and what not.

So, yeah, it's actually an alarmingly disgraceful, yet unsurprising move on the part of his party.

At best he is responsible for what happened on his watch, whilst he was the elected leader of Gujarat. And that's bad enough. At worst, he encouraged or enabled the carnage, or simply chose to look the other way.

So compares to what happened in 1984 are irrelevant. Because never before have we faced the prospect of someone being projected as Prime Minister when his (or her) recent past as a very senior political leader is so very remorselessly bloody.

Indira Gandhi isn't an example, because she was dead. Neither is Rajiv Gandhi, because he held no high constitutional office where he was supposed to protect citizens regardless of his personal beliefs instead of attempting a cleanse.

In any event, that argument sounds like the justification that comes from a Jet fan (Al Yemda boarded by bus once too, so Jet's A-okay).

ssbmat wrote:
Advani - of all the people has always propagated Uniform Civil Code as a means to avoid minority appeasement- which in turn was looked at by pseudo secularists as majority-empowerment. Uniform Civil Code is one good step towards French style secularism.
...
In the same context- are we going to allow France style law to avoid overt religious symbolism in public- including removal of veils, , Turbans or Saffron mark on the forehead ?

To get off-topic again, like I said before, the French example is an extreme one. It's not one I would ever like to see followed in India, but I do understand and appreciate why they implemented it there. Each countries' experience and situation is different. Our minorities have always been our minorities. France's minorities have essentially come from outside. Neither is a criticism or justification; just a statement of fact.

Specific to the religious symbols, I say if you want to wear a bindi or a burqa, and it';s your choice, then by all means go crazy. You want to drill a hole in your skull and stick a crucifix in it? Two thumbs up. It's a personal choice and doesn't affect anyone else one bit.

But when it comes to public nuisances in the name of religious freedom? Those need to go. People can do their praying on their own time in private. Why must everyone around have to deal with your choice to visarjan your Ganpati or your reminder of prayer time or because you decided to ingest a few pharmaceuticals, poke a few sharp objects through your body and then roll naked on the middle of the road with thousands processing behind you? And of course, all of these need polce protection (as if there isn't anything else for the cops to do).

In general though, what I would like to see is complete equality in law - when it comes to all man-made distinctions between people. That includes religion, caste, politics and all that good stuff.

However, there are also groups of people who do need a helping hand or additional state protection/support, based on natural characteristics, such as age, disability & health, gender & sexuality. As well as a helping hand to those who are poor.

So I mean equal. Not separate-but-equal, but plain equal. That's the baseline. Then a few adjustments for a few groups (as mentioned above) in relevant areas.

So what if the Nasty Party is in favour of civil equality? Is that all they've got?

Besides, if their reasons for it remain suspect, because if the roles were reversed, they sure as hell wouldn't be making the same noises. It also does not absolve them of the multitude of other sins, which, in my opinion, includes their very existence. And yes, I will say the same thing about any political party that has a religion as it's raison d'etre.

So when it comes to party preferences, I'm not a Congress fan from any angle. But given the unfortunate choice we have (incompetence + corruption vs incompetence + corruption + mandir), there really isn't a choice at all. I'd rather see the country suffer financially for a little while, than to see it maybe suffer financially a little less, but irreparably worse off in our structural foundations.

Nimish wrote:
Come on Jasepl, surely you don't think that's going to happen in India? Not where vote banks count for everything? And where the vast majority Hindu population does not care for or want a Hindu state? If they did, they would have never voted the INC in for ~55 of the 60+ years of independence.

I'm not worried that we will become a Hindu Terroristan like our failed neighbours to the west. That's because a vast majority of people in the country do not seem to want that. What I do think though, is if the mandir brigade had their way. However, there are other ways to effect limited change, without constitutional establishment of any religion.

Fortunately, they won't get enough power and even if they did they can't go against significant public opinion on a matter of such importance. So we're safe, to an extent, in that regard.
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ssbmat
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But when it comes to public nuisances in the name of religious freedom? Those need to go. People can do their praying on their own time in private. Why must everyone around have to deal with your choice to visarjan your Ganpati or your reminder of prayer time or because you decided to ingest a few pharmaceuticals, poke a few sharp objects through your body and then roll naked on the middle of the road with thousands processing behind you? And of course, all of these need polce protection (as if there isn't anything else for the cops to do).


To this I completely agree.
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Nimish
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
Perhaps. But is a crafty, wily, genocidal mass-murderer better than a bumbling, foolish Jr HIghness?

In my view, the damage the "bumbling, foolish Jr" and his ilk do is far more than a one-off murderer. The damage from dumbo is always there and far deeper in it's impact - it affects the whole country, not just a small region. It kills millions (in theory) through "anonymous" acts like starvation, lack of medical treatment, falling into potholes and open-manholes, poor infrastructure and so on.

jasepl wrote:
I guess I will repeat : I do not think the Guiottiner of Gujarat ought to be Prime Minister at all.

I think I for one have given a long enough chance to the UPA, and they have continued to create a complete mess of this country. Look at the inflation, the crumbling infrastructure and the massive disease of corruption. I am ready for change and the UPA does not have anything new or different to offer. Only "mother superior and her idiot child and spineless corrupt ministers"

jasepl wrote:
And we're not talking small potatoes, such as money or affairs or nepotism or illegitimate children; we're talking blood. Lots of blood. Very different problems.

It's the same red blood from Jr. and his lot as well. It's just much more indirect. But probably much more of it flowing. If nothing else there's always "Mother India's" blood that's being liberally let by Jr and co Evil or Very Mad

jasepl wrote:
And his supposed administrative skills are as much an eyewash as anything else. And, really, if you think the BJP isn't full of corrupt money-grabbers or that the Gujarat government - starting at the top - doesn't extract their tons of gold-coloured flesh for every "file" they "pass" in record time then you have another thing coming. The state is rife with greed, corruption, bribery, land grabs, forced acquisitions and what not.


This catches me off guard. One of the main reasons I'm rooting for NaMo is that he's not corrupt and does not let corruption become the main stay of his administration. That is what numerous press articles have been feeding us. Are you saying Namo is as bad as the UPA lot in terms of corruption?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a tricky situation that voters will have to face in this election. The choice between known devil (Congress) and an unknown angle (Namo) makes you really wonder whether you want to cast a vote on either of them.

That is why, it makes more sense for the Election Commission to have bought the option of "Right to Reject". This will prompt Congress and BJP to introspect and make the right choices in bringing Good Governance and choosing the right PM candidate.

To me, it is the correct move.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let NaMo get an opportunity to focus on development.....
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After two consecutive incompetent administrations, with Indian economy falling, anybody but Congress will be the answer. I cant stand the sycophancy of the Congress CM's to Sonia Gandhi. During the last run, BJP did an overall better job, but with BJP's recent scandals, I dont know if they can be elected. It looks like a coalition government this time.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iah87 wrote:

It looks like a coalition government this time.


That has been the trend for last 2 decades. At the current stage, no political party in this country deserves to win the election in absolute majority.

There is a talk of third front being formed. Remains to be seen whether it will be effective.

The best alternative to incumbent UPA, which is the NDA, are in a mess themselves with some alliance members split over the issue of Modi being the prime ministerial candidate.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
iah87 wrote:

It looks like a coalition government this time.


That has been the trend for last 2 decades. At the current stage, no political party in this country deserves to win the election in absolute majority.

There is a talk of third front being formed. Remains to be seen whether it will be effective.

The best alternative to incumbent UPA, which is the NDA, are in a mess themselves with some alliance members split over the issue of Modi being the prime ministerial candidate.

Mess or not, I personally would have "given them a chance" over the incompentents currently in government, were it not for their raison d'etre : the temple and all that that signifies.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


This catches me off guard. One of the main reasons I'm rooting for NaMo is that he's not corrupt and does not let corruption become the main stay of his administration. That is what numerous press articles have been feeding us. Are you saying Namo is as bad as the UPA lot in terms of corruption?


There is very little harassment (read: corruption) at the top.

When my co wanted to build a new factory, not a single paisa was paid. There was no need to meet anyone but the relevant officials. Clearances in Gujarat come by Registered post - there is no need for grease to be given even to the despatch clerk. It is a purely business decision. All the clearances came in about 2 months, faster than planned for. And yes, market price was paid to the landowners. Power was connected in about a month - though the factory took many months to build. - the co had to pay the fixed charge without actually using the power because they over-estimated the time taken to get the power.

As far as certain allegations about genocide and wilful murder are concerned, a quick reference to the SIT report published in full on the Hindu website will clear the air - for those who actually want to know the truth.

As far as the allegation that there is no progress in Gujarat goes - well agriculture grew @10%, Industry @11% over the last decade. From a power cut 3 days a week for industry in 2005 to as much power as we can use (as long as the bill is settled by due date) in 2010. Not only a "few highways" but a road network connecting ALL villages except in the remotest tribal areas in the hills of South Gujarat - and this is changing too.

The mandir issue is almost non-exixtent. The real reason people fear him is not his "fascism" but the fact that the license raj will end and the gravy train will derail. And babus may actually have to work without "chai-money".
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Thanks for sharing your first hand experience - definitely highlights an experience which is far removed from reality in the rest of the country. The rest of the country would love such an administration - just need to vote in the right administrator.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
^^ Thanks for sharing your first hand experience - definitely highlights an experience which is far removed from reality in the rest of the country. The rest of the country would love such an administration - just need to vote in the right administrator.


Nimish I heard a lot of software coolies (you should get a padma bhushan for this term) in BLR are learning public administration and are all set to take part in Municipal corporation elections and be the change?

If this is indeed true, more power to them.

More than Modi, the Gandhi family should be kicked out of Indian polity ASAP. Then we will have a better Congress and hopefully a better BJP.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amd_flyer wrote:


There is very little harassment (read: corruption) at the top.

When my co wanted to build a new factory, not a single paisa was paid. There was no need to meet anyone but the relevant officials. Clearances in Gujarat come by Registered post - there is no need for grease to be given even to the despatch clerk. It is a purely business decision. All the clearances came in about 2 months, faster than planned for. And yes, market price was paid to the landowners. Power was connected in about a month - though the factory took many months to build. - the co had to pay the fixed charge without actually using the power because they over-estimated the time taken to get the power.


I've seen this happen, when the co my dad works for approached the govt with a proposal to setup a mfg unit in Gujarat, everything was structured and ready with proposals with land, connecting roads for transport, ports with the sea, and infact, they used to follow up (almost chase around) very frequently with progress expected in the region, and this was not that big an investement, for the govt to be chasing you around. This is the structure created, everything in the state institutionalized, I don't know about corruption, but the whole process is (relatively) very easy to manage, with very little compromise.

amd_flyer wrote:
As far as certain allegations about genocide and wilful murder are concerned, a quick reference to the SIT report published in full on the Hindu website will clear the air - for those who actually want to know the truth.


Its actually sad to read these comments about 2002, specially coming from the educated middle class who actually very well know how the media twists the truth.

Modi was accused of and later cleared from DELAYING police action, he' didn't hire the mob and ask them kill, and very few would know this, but Modi, on the very first day of the riots requested additional police forces from all 3 neighboring states, Vilasrao Deshmukh in Maharashtra, Diggy in MP and Ashok Ghelot in Rajasthan, all 3 "kangressi varishth neta" and all 3 denied sending police into Guj. The congress always wanted this to happen, so that this would take India to the next level of caste politics, which they unfortunately very successfully did.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
BLR are learning public administration and are all set to take part in Municipal corporation elections and be the change?


I'm not very sure - but it's quite likely yes. The AAP has quite a support base in Karnataka. Today's headlines were that the Karnataka CM has got a clear message from the Delhi results - and he's going to stop ignoring the ills of Bangalore. The past few govts. (starting with that prime idiot Devegowda) had an active "anti-Bangalore" policy - where they would publicly talk about giving more to the rural areas and farmers at the cost of fixing Bangalore.

avbuff wrote:
More than Modi, the Gandhi family should be kicked out of Indian polity ASAP. Then we will have a better Congress and hopefully a better BJP.


The "House of the Gandhis (HoGs) - definitely needs to go - for all you know there might be a few good/honest politicians even in the INC - and they can revive the Congress!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:

The "House of the Gandhis (HoGs) - definitely needs to go - for all you know there might be a few good/honest politicians even in the INC - and they can revive the Congress!


I think that is easier said than done.

The Gandhis have, for decades, promoted a culture of sycophancy within the Congress. People who disagreed with or opposed them have either been expelled from the party or relegated to a playing a minor role in the sidelines. The whole setup is full of Gandhi family worshippers, who will not let them go anywhere.

Only a massive defeat in the general elections in all parts of the country (like what happened in 1975), and the emergence of a strong and viable alternative with a pan-India presence can force the Congress to clean itself up.

One can only hope that the AAP will emerge as this viable alternative, although it too early to say. The BJP does not have much appeal outside the Hindi belt (apart from Karnataka), and they aren't saints either.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is too early for AAP to have a pan-India presence with the general elections only a few months away. Hardly anyone in the group has experience of actually running a government.

Besides, for all their talk about clean governance, how they really perform remains to be seen. There is a huge difference between talking and doing!

AAP will do good to sit in the opposition in Delhi this time. This will teach them the nuances of running a government and it will also give them a good opportunity to keep the ruling government in check from inside the House.

As far as the general elections are concerned, I would like to see AAP having a presence at least in the urban centers like Delhi, Bangalore, Mumbai, etc. Let them start slowly and steadily build their presence.

Maybe in another 5 years, they will truly become a viable alternative at the Centre!

Till that time, I think NaMo deserves a chance to show his much hyped leadership. The Congress is down and out for all practical purposes (good riddance to them I say!) but it is also the BJP's last chance. If they screw up with any saffron flavoured nonsense this time, people will never bring them to power going forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

me111993 wrote:
amd_flyer wrote:


There is very little harassment (read: corruption) at the top.

When my co wanted to build a new factory, not a single paisa was paid. There was no need to meet anyone but the relevant officials. Clearances in Gujarat come by Registered post - there is no need for grease to be given even to the despatch clerk. It is a purely business decision. All the clearances came in about 2 months, faster than planned for. And yes, market price was paid to the landowners. Power was connected in about a month - though the factory took many months to build. - the co had to pay the fixed charge without actually using the power because they over-estimated the time taken to get the power.


I've seen this happen, when the co my dad works for approached the govt with a proposal to setup a mfg unit in Gujarat, everything was structured and ready with proposals with land, connecting roads for transport, ports with the sea, and infact, they used to follow up (almost chase around) very frequently with progress expected in the region, and this was not that big an investement, for the govt to be chasing you around. This is the structure created, everything in the state institutionalized, I don't know about corruption, but the whole process is (relatively) very easy to manage, with very little compromise.

amd_flyer wrote:
As far as certain allegations about genocide and wilful murder are concerned, a quick reference to the SIT report published in full on the Hindu website will clear the air - for those who actually want to know the truth.


Its actually sad to read these comments about 2002, specially coming from the educated middle class who actually very well know how the media twists the truth.

Modi was accused of and later cleared from DELAYING police action, he' didn't hire the mob and ask them kill, and very few would know this, but Modi, on the very first day of the riots requested additional police forces from all 3 neighboring states, Vilasrao Deshmukh in Maharashtra, Diggy in MP and Ashok Ghelot in Rajasthan, all 3 "kangressi varishth neta" and all 3 denied sending police into Guj. The congress always wanted this to happen, so that this would take India to the next level of caste politics, which they unfortunately very successfully did.


@AMD Flyer and me11193, vested interests have no option but to keep the dormant cauldron of 2002 alive. Even the media is playing this game.
I am shocked to see that this pseudo-secular media tries to pander to these interests by asking every foreign leader the question "how will you deal with Modi if he becomes PM" as if he were a demon.
The best rebuttal came from a British MP that smacked back in the face of the NDTV anchor- he said that perhaps she doesnt respect the findings of the Supreme court of her own country.

While I am no supporter of Modi, there is currently no alternative to him.
And Congress is certainly no paragon of social virtue.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

me111993 and amd_flyer
There's no question Modi will push development, none at all. He will do it and he'll do it well! They are on a huge media roll + NaMo (I hate that term) supporters have a single agenda which is development. For obvious reason, do people care about BJPs stand on article 377? Do they care if they ban cow slaughter? Do they care if a man who calls himself a Hindu nationalist wants the Ram temple rebuilt no matter the cost?
No- the BJP has brains and they'll push the one issue on everyone's mind and that is development.

Don't misunderstand me, this tiff isnt with the BJP. I don't like them. Then again I don't like the Congress, id be thrilled to see the Gandhis get the boot. The nature of politics is such- an anti Modi post automatically means it's pro Congress and vice versa which is FAR from the truth. Rather silly im sure you would agree. Just because someone has moral issues with Modi doesn't mean they are pro Congress or that they doubt he will do a good job running a country.

It comes down to whether one thinks Modi is responsible for what happened in his state or not. We can point at news articles and SIT reports and police reports and the courts etc all we want. Each has it's obvious flaws of reasoning, one can only take information and come up with his/her own conclusion.

Personally things are so bad I would even consider voting for a religious backed party (BJP) if they had picked someone else. But Modi? Wow .... like development is everything.
If a company hired a CEO with a dodgy background the shareholders wouldn't stand for it ..... but when a national party picks Modi people forget about his background and focus on the growth prospect he brings. Typical human nature.

This man calls himself a hindu nationalist (as if that's something to be proud off) was at the helm of the worse communal clashes in recent history and did not handle it well (however well we try to excuse it). His history shows he's pro hindutva, heck he admits it!
This is not anti BJP sentiment, it's an anti Modi sentiment. Not the same thing ....

The AAP may be a good alternative .... but I don't think anyone knows their agenda. Kick out the crooks = great im all for it. Then what? What is their view on the economy? I have no idea .....
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:
me111993 and amd_flyer

This man calls himself a hindu nationalist (as if that's something to be proud off)


I may be giving him the benefit of doubt, but when a person for whom English is a third language, essentially picked up on the job, the nuance between saying "nationalist Hindu" and "Hindu nationalist" is not as apparent as it would be to many of us.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming pretty late to this thread, but right at this moment, no man is better suited to become India's PM than Arvind Kejriwal !

Arvind Kejriwal reveals how World Bank dictates policies in India
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tqaLMOgPH0

Arvind Kejriwal 12 years back, between 2001 and 2002
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuJH9ASE2tA&feature=youtu.be

Seeking Truth - An Interview with Arvind Kejriwal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM_gUbXH2js


Jai Hind!
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like Kejriwal to work in a governing capacity (even if its Delhi state), implement all the changes he promises and then run for higher office.

At the moment, his politics is based on cynicism and disruption. India can ill-afford disruptive policies at this stage.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:
me111993 and amd_flyer
There's no question Modi will push development, none at all. He will do it and he'll do it well! They are on a huge media roll + NaMo (I hate that term) supporters have a single agenda which is development. For obvious reason, do people care about BJPs stand on article 377? Do they care if they ban cow slaughter? Do they care if a man who calls himself a Hindu nationalist wants the Ram temple rebuilt no matter the cost?
No- the BJP has brains and they'll push the one issue on everyone's mind and that is development.

Don't misunderstand me, this tiff isnt with the BJP. I don't like them. Then again I don't like the Congress, id be thrilled to see the Gandhis get the boot. The nature of politics is such- an anti Modi post automatically means it's pro Congress and vice versa which is FAR from the truth. Rather silly im sure you would agree. Just because someone has moral issues with Modi doesn't mean they are pro Congress or that they doubt he will do a good job running a country.

It comes down to whether one thinks Modi is responsible for what happened in his state or not. We can point at news articles and SIT reports and police reports and the courts etc all we want. Each has it's obvious flaws of reasoning, one can only take information and come up with his/her own conclusion.

Personally things are so bad I would even consider voting for a religious backed party (BJP) if they had picked someone else. But Modi? Wow .... like development is everything.
If a company hired a CEO with a dodgy background the shareholders wouldn't stand for it ..... but when a national party picks Modi people forget about his background and focus on the growth prospect he brings. Typical human nature.

This man calls himself a hindu nationalist (as if that's something to be proud off) was at the helm of the worse communal clashes in recent history and did not handle it well (however well we try to excuse it). His history shows he's pro hindutva, heck he admits it!
This is not anti BJP sentiment, it's an anti Modi sentiment. Not the same thing ....

The AAP may be a good alternative .... but I don't think anyone knows their agenda. Kick out the crooks = great im all for it. Then what? What is their view on the economy? I have no idea .....


- Ram Mandir and banning cow slaughter are election issues, as they're called, thats the only way you can get something done in UP, a state which commands 80 seats out of the total of 545, with the kind of leaders they've had, they don't understand much else, but come the bigger picture, these 2 in particular are very small issues. Give Sec 377 a bit more time, you'll start seeing a lot of voices within the congress and the BJP agree and dis-agree with eachother.

Its not about what the BJP wants you to see, if you follow what Modi says to masses of people in city wide campaigns, you'll get to see election politics, follow what he said in SRCC or in those finance award shows he went to or his speeches during vibrant Gujarat and you'll start seeing more of what he proposes to do post 2014.
Rahul Gandhi goes to an election rally and says "we must take care of the poor of this country", goes to a college next and says "poverty is a state of mind".


- Nikhil, look at what you posted compared to the other posts, you're anti-Modi too, but there's a way you followed while going about it making a few points clear all along so obviously you won't be branded Pro-Congress. if you had called him a genocidal mass-murderer or the Guiottiner of Gujarat and moved on ignoring everything else, it would have implied you're pro-INC because this is exactly what they do, while talking about how their grand mother was assassinated.

Thing is, as a voter you need to choose, and not voting is worse than voting for either. the "there is no alternative" factor is how a lot of pro-Modi guys started and eventually you get around admiring the work he's done.

- I agree, it comes down to your own judgement as far as 2002 is concerned. Another way of looking at it is it will be 12 years in 3 months time, since the riots, and the state has been 100% riot free since then, and believe me, pre-2002, that wasn't the case, AMD was known for small scale riots and within hours the entire city used to shut down under tremendous tension, and sure you won't see articles describing all this, but believe me, my father had his office across the bridge in the old city till 2000 or so, and it used to get tense, now, there's a Manek Chowk, very famous for amazing fast food, smack in the middle of the old city whose working hours are fro 2300-0200, and believe me, its very nice. Things have changed.

- BJP isnt the only religion backed party, they both are, Congress sucks it up to the minorities because they already know , BJP does the same with the Hindu vote, its electoral politics, and its very dirty, but how do you find a common agenda for 1.3 billion people? The best way for us to judge politicians is by who has done what, because every tom dick and harry can make promises.

- Modi's dodgy background comes from what you feel about 2002, one terrible unthinkable incident, but just 1 such incident, the rest has been peaceful, (I'm not downplaying the 2002, no way, but if it really was Modi's doing, more such incidents would have happened over the past 12 years) unlike a corruption scandal which breaks open every second day in the Centre.

and it's not about development now, its about damange control, not one industry as a whole is doing well, foreign investors are pulling out faster then ever before, its all because there's no movement at the centre, terrible policy paralysis, and its not long before this damage becomes permanent. If I had a nickle for everytime an adult told me, to look for opportunities outside India after my graduation, i'd have purchased 24% stake in 9W myself.

- 100% agree with you on the AAP thing, no one knows their views on economy, everyone gives you your usual bijli paani ki promise, politcs, even the good politics is done by politicians. He finds himself in a terrible situation right now, if he gets into bed with the Congress to form a govt, it will be like crapping on everything he's ever campaigned on, and i know quite a few people who'll call him a traitor. If he doesn't form the govt then the BJP and Congress will label him a pussy who made massive promises but has no capacity to deliver. If he somehow does come to power, he'll always be in a minority in terms of seats and before the former ENgineers and Doctors and Managers get a hang of how to do things, the first 100 days will already be up, and he'll be chasing things that he never wanted to judge or govern in the first place, as it always happens.
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stealthpilot
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately gay rights and cow slaughter will be small election issue, but Ram Mandir? I would hope it's a colossal issue for Indians Exclamation

me111993 wrote:
Its not about what the BJP wants you to see, if you follow what Modi says to masses of people in city wide campaigns, you'll get to see election politics, follow what he said in SRCC or in those finance award shows he went to or his speeches during vibrant Gujarat and you'll start seeing more of what he proposes to do post 2014.
Rahul Gandhi goes to an election rally and says "we must take care of the poor of this country", goes to a college next and says "poverty is a state of mind".

Hahahah I remember that poverty is a state of mind thing Rolling Eyes
The BJP has an agenda = economic development and that is what they are pushing. The congress has mayhem and officially no prime ministerial candidate. The Congress is just bungling at every turn (a friends quote but I agree) ..... the BJP know what they are doing.

I get your point about things being better in Gujarat, my contention is = that isn't everything- economic progress cant come at any cost. I wouldn't hire a second-deputy-vice-manager at a company who had a dodgy background (even if it was like you said just one thing) ..... I guess the stakes change the higher up you go.

A lot of my friends pick Modi over Gandhi but most of them are under on illusion of his background. That's what I find different on this thread - the effort spent at proving his innocence. (maybe it's retaliation for the effort at proving his guilt?)
Most of them will vote for him but most admit he's got blood on his hands (Hmmmm maybe that's worse in a way?) .... that goes to show how pathetic the opposition to him is.

Coming to the Supreme Court and using that as a defence .... come on ... they said there is no evidence .... and?
They would say the same thing about Sonia Gandhi because there's no proof of money and they let Lallu Prasad Yadav walk a few days ago. Our courts are (supposedly) based on solid proof and thank god for that.

And Narendra Modi calling himself a Hindu nationalist .... I don't think it was a language issue at all ....


Anyway looks like he's going to win ..... ill hang my head in shame at our nation believing he's a good man and hope the development push is somewhat worth it.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:


The congress has mayhem and officially no prime ministerial candidate. The Congress is just bungling at every turn (a friends quote but I agree) ..... the BJP know what they are doing.



In all certainty it is another generation from the Gandhi family who is going to be Congress Prime Ministerial candidate.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Yesterday I heard that Rahul Gandhi (aka Pappu) will be officially designated as the INC's PM candidate by mid-Jan. I don't know how true this is.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nimish wrote:
^^ Yesterday I heard that Rahul Gandhi (aka Pappu) will be officially designated as the INC's PM candidate by mid-Jan. I don't know how true this is.


If it's true, BJP wins! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a must read article written by Anand Ranganathan about the NaMo factor is not all that magical. http://www.newslaundry.com/2013/12/modi-magic/

I don't know if you all would agree it or not. In a way, the success of Aam Aadmi Party in Delhi assembly election has given an opportunity for Congress to become honest in its political functioning. With Rahul Gandhi's admittance that providing good governance is an important issue, we might see a change in Congress party. He also spoke about learning lessons from AAP to get in touch with people and understand their grievances. I really hope so it takes place.

So all traditional Congress supporters can give them a chance once again to form the government.

People who want NaMo to become the next PM should be sceptical about his ideology. This article highlights the fact that he is a 'Feku'.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
It is a must read article written by Anand Ranganathan about the NaMo factor is not all that magical. http://www.newslaundry.com/2013/12/modi-magic/

I don't know if you all would agree it or not. In a way, the success of Aam Aadmi Party in Delhi assembly election has given an opportunity for Congress to become honest in its political functioning. With Rahul Gandhi's admittance that providing good governance is an important issue, we might see a change in Congress party. He also spoke about learning lessons from AAP to get in touch with people and understand their grievances. I really hope so it takes place.

So all traditional Congress supporters can give them a chance once again to form the government.

People who want NaMo to become the next PM should be sceptical about his ideology. This article highlights the fact that he is a 'Feku'.


I don't think you have read the article completely either. The appendix must be there to understand it thoroughly. The fact is, media houses have been parroting this crap all day/month/year.
The article was compiled on this moron called Aakar Patel.

http://www.newslaundry.com/2013/12/appendix-modi-magic/
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the hype about Namo being the next Indian PM seem to have not been echoed well amongst the senior members of BJP. He seem to have polarized here itself with not giving party ticket to veteran politicians like Advani, Jaswant Singh and few others.

Feeling dejected, Jaswant Singh has decided to quit the party tomorrow and contest as an independent.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite frankly, I dont think anyone will miss Jaswant singh per se, not even BJP. Otherwise he would have been given a ticket straightaway.

But in a way its good that this churn is happening- will allow Rajnath and co to focus on elections without much further trouble. The only person who seems to be smarting is Swaraj- who perhaps will be relegated to No-3 (or lower) behind NaMo and Jaitley.
I think everyone , more so in BJP is keenly looking at the numbers. 240+ for BJP alone- everyone will queue up behind Rajnath and Modi.

220-240 for BJP- there will be more such grumblings, but less bargaining internally.
190-210 for BJP- there will be pressure on Rajnath to seek alternative PM candidate and hence Swaraj and co are biding their time..
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Indians are going to elect an unrepentant fascist with a trumped up economic record over a tandoori pasta eating boy-in-the-bubble.

Let's hope the powers-that-be, i.e., the oligarchs and plutocrats who are promoting the former will insist that the saffron-chaddi brigade aren't given carte blanche by their new fascist on the gaddi of power.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://vivekagnihotri.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/15-promises-of-bjp-that-can-change-our-lives/

Quote:
15 promises of BJP that can change our lives

Posted on April 7, 2014 by vivekagnihotri
Today, BJP released its Election 2014 manifesto.

It was supposed to be released on the 3rd April. BJP delayed it citing a logistical problem of bringing all their main leaders together as they are all busy filing nominations. Since then opposition parties, their supporters and media have been outraging on this delay. This is the first time in the history of Indian Democracy a manifesto has been sought with such intense passions. And for the first time in Indian electoral politics a manifesto has been read, analysed and debated with same emotions by BJP, political parties and media.

This is how its analysed in panel discussions of newsrooms.

Bkm-lDqCMAAQuaH

Congress has gone to the extent of saying that BJP copied its manifesto. Abhishek Manu Singhvi has blamed Modi for stealing Sonia Gandhi’s ideas. Sure BJP did copy. But which idea, Singhvi doesn’t tell us.

Yes, its true that nobody takes these manifestos seriously. Last time people took a manifesto seriously was when AAP government in state assembly of Delhi, led by Arvind Kejriwal made some unachievable 18 promises. When he failed to fulfil them, it seemed manifestos lost their credibility forever.

But then Modi has been selling a dream. A dream any sane Indian would buy. A dream that has shaken the muslim-vote-pattern paradox to an extent. A dream that’s soon going to marginalise undisputed rulers of India – Congress. A dream that’s made all world powers and economists sit up and take notice.

People are taking note of it because they know that these promises are made by a man called Modi. Such is the faith of his fans and supporters in his competence and intention. Mostly youth. No wonder there pledge of some 20 odd things the following is what made me read the entire manifesto.

To build a Modern India:

And I like that. Its kind of cool that young India understands. Enough of hypocrisy.

I don’t know how far BJP will succeed in delivering this in 5 years but I have picked up some salient features which I believe Modi will most certainly implement. He may be Hitler. He may be a fascist. He maybe a mass murderer. He may be authoritative but he is passionate about the following and I know that a passionate leader can make anything happen. (Remember AB Vajpayee’s successful quadrangle highway project).

Here is my pick of 15 objectives that BJP promises to accomplish and if they do will change our lives forever.

1. Team India

Formation of a task force ‘Team India’ including Prime Minister along with his cabinet and all Chief Ministers. This will strengthen federal structure, reduce regional disparity and integrated objectivity.

2. The Governance model:

People-centric, Policy driven, Time bound delivery.
E-Governance: Easy, Efficient and Effective.
Mandate digitization of all government work to reduce corruption and delays.
Minimum Government, Maximum Governance
3. Digital India

Deployment of IT to protect India’s priceless cultural and artistic heritage, which includes digitization of all archives and museology.
Set up High-speed digital highways to unite the nation.
Make every household digitally literate with a goal to make India the Global Knowledge hub, with IT being a major driver and engine of growth.
4. Judiciary, Police & Defense

Simplify legal procedure and language.
Double the number of courts and judges in the sub-orinate judiciary. It also wants to extend fast-track courts to all layers of the judiciary.
Networking of police stations and strengthening of investigations, making them swift, transparent and decisive
Insulate intelligence agencies from political intervention and interference.
Completely revamp the intelligence gathering system by modernizing the intelligence department.
Set up four dedicated defence universities to meet the shortage of manpower.
5. Hold Assembly and Lok Sabha elections simultaneously.

Apart from reducing election expenses for both political parties and Government, this will ensure certain stability for State Governments.
6. Minority

National Madrasa modernization programme would be initiated.
Curate rich Muslim heritage and culture – maintenance and restoration of heritage sites; digitisation of archives; preservation and promotion of Urdu.
7. Urban Areas – High Growth Centres
“Our cities should no longer remain a reflection of poverty and bottlenecks. Rather they should become symbols of efficiency, speed and scale. We will look at urbanisation as an Opportunity rather than a Threat.”

8. Building 100 new cities

Enabled with the latest in technology and infrastructure - walk to work etc, and focused on specialized domains. Wi-Fi facilities will be made available in public places and commercial centres.
9. Industry

Government withdraws from those services which could be done by others and devote that extra time, money and energy for social sectors.
Focus on Zero defect products.
Embark on the path of IPRs and Patents in a big way. (My favourite)
10. 50 tourist circuits

Archaeological and Heritage,
Cultural and Spiritual,
Himalayan,
Desert,
Coastal,
Medical (Ayurveda and Modern Medicine).


11. Nertworking

Set up Gas Grids to make gas available to households and industry.
Set up a National Optical-Fibre Network up to the village level; and Wi-Fi zones in public areas.
Diamond Quadrilateral project – of High Speed Train network (bullet train).
Inter-linking of rivers.


12. Promotion of innovation

by creating a comprehensive National System of Innovation.
13. Science and research

devise schemes, programs and opportunities to encourage the youth to take scientific research and innovation as a career. Make research careers more appealing,
enhancing the national productivity and competitiveness
build world class, regional centres of excellence of scientific research in the field of nanotechnology, material sciences, thorium technology and brain research.
create an ecosystem for multi-country and inter-disciplinary collaborative research, and establish
an Intellectual Property Rights Regime which maximizes the incentive for generation and protection of intellectual property for all type of inventors.
14. Launch ‘National Mission on Himalayas’. (I love this)

Create a ‘Himalayan Sustainability Fund’.
Create a Central University dedicated to the Himalayan Technology.

15. Build Brand India with the help of our strengths of 5 T’s:
Tradition,

Talent,

Tourism,

Trade

Technology.

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