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NaMo For PM?
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me111993
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: NaMo For PM? Reply with quote

Interesting debate on everywhere was made official a few weeks ago. What are your thoughts?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A billion and a half people in the country and they come up with a genocidal mass-murderer?
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The_Goat
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think it will happen unless the BJP gets a 2/3 majority on its own, and that is highly unlikely. Many within the NDA will not be comfortable with him.

But like it or not, he is the best India has. Modi is the only one who at least, seems to have the capacity to run the country's highest administrative office.

One look at the other hopefuls only strengthens this view.

jasepl wrote:
A billion and a half people in the country and they come up with a genocidal mass-murderer?



As if the Mulayam Yadavs, Mayavatis and Jayalalithaaas are all paragons of virtue and aren't responsible for any deaths, directly or indirectly. And all of them have used religion as a political tool.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
have the capacity to run the country's highest administrative office.

A short little Austrian by the name of Adolf was also an incredibly good administrator.

And, really, if we think anything's doing to change for the better just because of who's in office then we're even more delusional than Jet Airways. The current administrative shambles is simply going to be replaced by administrative shambles plus mandir nonsense.

Nothing short of total replacement of everyone in politics is going to bring about change. Sometimes I wish those Paki terrorists had been successful.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would'nt mind if Rahul Gandhi becomes the PM. Considering that he has taken a strong stance against the ordinance and has stood up against his own UPA government.

I feel he can change the whole image of the Congress party by being honest and have a clean politics. He is also secular. Smile

I feel sceptical about Namo's communal agenda.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
And, really, if we think anything's doing to change for the better just because of who's in office then we're even more delusional than Jet Airways. The current administrative shambles is simply going to be replaced by administrative shambles plus mandir nonsense.


Err...

http://http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Build-toilets-first-and-temples-later-Narendra-Modi-says/articleshow/23422631.cms

Quote:
Speaking at a function organized here for the youth, Modi said he dared to say so even though his image as a Hindutva leader did not allow him.

"I am known to be a Hindutva leader. My image does not permit to say so, but I dare to say. My real thought is Pehle shauchalaya, phir devalaya' (toilet first, temple later)," he said.


Quote:
Nothing short of total replacement of everyone in politics is going to bring about change. Sometimes I wish those Paki terrorists had been successful.


And how do we achieve this? Kill em all? Like that whateva Bollywood movie? And replace them with?

And please - enough has been said about the genocide and mass murder in Gujarat. What about the mass murder of Sikhs in Delhi/Punjab in 1984 after Indira Gandhi's assassination? Have we forgotten all about it? Then maybe we can forget about Gujarat in due course of time too!

I don't think he is perfect and I am no Modi fanboy (DISCLAIMER for all those who might think I am one of those khakhi chaddi wallahs) but he seems to be our best bet - the best of the worst, if you may! He surely needs to be given a chance.

Hopefully it will be a far better option than the current circus/clown that we have for a government/PM right now!


G-BYGB wrote:
I would'nt mind if Rahul Gandhi becomes the PM. Considering that he has taken a strong stance against the ordinance and has stood up against his own UPA government.


Hah! You fell for that too?? Do we really believe that Rahul Gandhi actually went against the entire cabinet and his own party and mommy dearest to take a stand against convicted MPs??

To me it looks nothing more than an orchestrated drama to show that the Congress/UPA/Rahul is against corruption. They have been battered endlessly for being corrupt, so they had to show that they have taken some action against it.

Who better than their crown prince and only hope - Rahul Gandhi to come up with this master stroke, huh? And it doesn't matter if this move undermined the authority of the cabinet and of the PM of this 1.2 billion strong nation!

And do you really want a man (boy actually) who says "Poverty is a state of mind" to be your PM? Really?

See these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqokGNSKIWc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHbjWbkjKCY
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vivekman wrote:
G-BYGB wrote:
I would'nt mind if Rahul Gandhi becomes the PM. Considering that he has taken a strong stance against the ordinance and has stood up against his own UPA government.


Hah! You fell for that too?? Do we really believe that Rahul Gandhi actually went against the entire cabinet and his own party and mommy dearest to take a stand against convicted MPs??

To me it looks nothing more than an orchestrated drama to show that the Congress/UPA/Rahul is against corruption. They have been battered endlessly for being corrupt, so they had to show that they have taken some action against it.

Who better than their crown prince and only hope - Rahul Gandhi to come up with this master stroke, huh? And it doesn't matter if this move undermined the authority of the cabinet and of the PM of this 1.2 billion strong nation!


Agreed, it was a gimmick if I ever saw one.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vivekman wrote:
...

Okay, so both statements, by their very nature, were gimmicky, political publicity stunts.

But, for some reason, the one made by the Assassin of Ahmedabad is the sincere truth and the one made by the man-child is garbage?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally, an Indian leader who talks about building more toilets. FINALLY!

NaMo deserves to be the PM for this alone!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Finally, an Indian leader who talks about building more toilets. FINALLY!

NaMo deserves to be the PM for this alone!


Didn't Jairam Ramesh say something similar earlier. I remember it irked a lot of self-appointed guardians of Hindutva. I don't see them reacting the same way this time.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
Finally, an Indian leader who talks about building more toilets. FINALLY!

NaMo deserves to be the PM for this alone!


Hahahhahahah!

You should tread carefully though. The last time someone brought up toilets (I believe it was Jay) there was an outright explosion (I forget who the offended party was). Lots of name calling and how dare you and misplaced nationalist outrage and that.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the options available.......maybe a chance to see what he can do....
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G-BYGB
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoever may become the next PM, the glittering change that can be felt is that people have woken up. They can no longer tolerate convicted MPs remaining in power and leader causing friction amongst various communities.

ASFA NaMo is concerned, he maybe a capable leader right now but the concern is he is a RSS man and they will call the shots.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
Whoever may become the next PM, the glittering change that can be felt is that people have woken up. They can no longer tolerate convicted MPs remaining in power and leader causing friction amongst various communities.


That's just the middle class, educated people...

I am concerned about the masses of uneducated/semi-educated, poor folks - who can be easily bought by a couple of sarees, a colour tv, heck even a bottle of country liquor! And this group forms the major vote bank for the political parties!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:

Hahahhahahah!

The last time someone brought up toilets (I believe it was Jay) there was an outright explosion (I forget who the offended party was). Lots of name calling and how dare you and misplaced nationalist outrage and that.


I remember who the offended party was Wink

vivekman wrote:
I am concerned about the masses of uneducated/semi-educated, poor folks - who can be easily bought by a couple of sarees, a colour tv, heck even a bottle of country liquor! And this group forms the major vote bank for the political parties!


That is true, but if one looks at what happens overall during Indian elections, it becomes evident that such goodies do not really alter the public mood.
For example, during the last assembly elections in Tamil Nadu, the DMK went all out, used a lot of money power and distributed a lot of goodies. They still lost in the end, and very badly too.
Also in the last general election, there was huge wave in favour of the Congress which ensured Manmohan Singh's re-election, thanks largely to the good work that the government had done in its first term. It is now hard to believe that this is the same government that existed between 2004 and 2009.

It just goes to show that however much the electorate are bribed with presents and goodies, good work is always rewarded and bad one always punished.

Maybe the uneducated/semi-educated poor folk are really smarter than what we urbanites give them credit for. They happily take all the goodies that are offered by everyone and vote with their brains on election day.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:


vivekman wrote:
I am concerned about the masses of uneducated/semi-educated, poor folks - who can be easily bought by a couple of sarees, a colour tv, heck even a bottle of country liquor! And this group forms the major vote bank for the political parties!


That is true, but if one looks at what happens overall during Indian elections, it becomes evident that such goodies do not really alter the public mood.
For example, during the last assembly elections in Tamil Nadu, the DMK went all out, used a lot of money power and distributed a lot of goodies. They still lost in the end, and very badly too.
Also in the last general election, there was huge wave in favour of the Congress which ensured Manmohan Singh's re-election, thanks largely to the good work that the government had done in its first term. It is now hard to believe that this the same government that existed between 2004 and 2009.

Maybe the uneducated/semi-educated poor folk are really smarter than what we urbanites give them credit for. They happily take all the goodies that are offered by everyone and vote with their brains on election day.


To add to that, this was the same case in BJP ruled states as well. BJP lost the recent Karnataka election because of the Mining scam and unstable government which saw 3 CMs in a single term.Similarly, in Rajasthan as well, where Congress got back to power, ousting BJP.

We will have to see in the upcoming assembly elections in 5 states whether voters will fall for freebies or vote according to the good or bad governance of the current ruling party.

Anna Hazare movement has definitely woken up majority of Indians, irrespective of their economic status, and have understood the importance of holding every politician accountable.

People are now more focused on results being delivered rather than those religious symbolism that most of the political parties display during their election campaigns.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
I would'nt mind if Rahul Gandhi becomes the PM. Considering that he has taken a strong stance against the ordinance and has stood up against his own UPA government.

I feel he can change the whole image of the Congress party by being honest and have a clean politics. He is also secular. Smile

I feel sceptical about Namo's communal agenda.


Reprisal killing of Sikhs in thousands is secular ?

Overtures to Pakistan inspite of 26/11 and so many other acts of terrorism and not to mention the beheadings of soldiers is secular ?

Home Minister writing that all minority undertrials should be carefully re-examined to avoid overt injustice ? This is secular ?

In short, every thing that you overtly claim to do for minority is secular.

IF so, I dont want secular in India.
Secular means State before religion. Congress has just brainwashed everyone into their definition of secularism..
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:


Reprisal killing of Sikhs in thousands is secular ?

Overtures to Pakistan inspite of 26/11 and so many other acts of terrorism and not to mention the beheadings of soldiers is secular ?

Home Minister writing that all minority undertrials should be carefully re-examined to avoid overt injustice ? This is secular ?

In short, every thing that you overtly claim to do for minority is secular.

IF so, I dont want secular in India.
Secular means State before religion. Congress has just brainwashed everyone into their definition of secularism..


Any political parties that are affiliated to a religious body does not account to being secular.

What is happening with the cross border terrorism and the current government's insistence in having a dialogue with Pakistan is deploring. But that has nothing to do with being secular. It is more of poor foreign policy on the part of India.

I agree with your last point about the actual definition of Secularism. Infact, Muslims and other minority groups have understood the true intention of Congress party and are not accepting their tokenism. They want more representation in the society and have better socio-economic status.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
A billion and a half people in the country and they come up with a genocidal mass-murderer?

Hahahahahha Laughing Laughing

The_Goat wrote:
Don't think it will happen unless the BJP gets a 2/3 majority on its own, and that is highly unlikely. Many within the NDA will not be comfortable with him.

Narendra Modi vs Rahul Gandhi (if they do name him....) is the biggest push towards creating a viable third front Rolling Eyes

The_Goat wrote:
Finally, an Indian leader who talks about building more toilets. FINALLY!
NaMo deserves to be the PM for this alone!

Errr a Congress guy says the exact same thing last year and the BJP gets their chuddies in a twist. NaMo says it now and impresses people Question

ssbmat wrote:
Secular means State before religion.

I agree, secular means no nonsense and bending over for religion (because if you do it for one group you're automatically favouring/ignoring another)
The government paying for Hajj travel is not secular. A house owner being able to dictate what the leaser can and cannot cook (even tho he lives 1000 km away) is not secular. The idea of separate courts for religions is not secular.
Pakistan = that's a foreign policy issue not secularism.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:


The_Goat wrote:
Don't think it will happen unless the BJP gets a 2/3 majority on its own, and that is highly unlikely. Many within the NDA will not be comfortable with him.

Narendra Modi vs Rahul Gandhi (if they do name him....) is the biggest push towards creating a viable third front Rolling Eyes


There will never be a 'viable' third front in India. There are too may regional egos jostling for position in the national arena. Any purported unity between them solely to keep the BJP out is going to end in disaster. We have seen that before.
stealthpilot wrote:

The_Goat wrote:
Finally, an Indian leader who talks about building more toilets. FINALLY!
NaMo deserves to be the PM for this alone!

Errr a Congress guy says the exact same thing last year and the BJP gets their chuddies in a twist. NaMo says it now and impresses people Question


The Congress guy who said it is a relatively junior minister who has never won an election in his life. Even in his own party, no one gives a murine posterior to what he says.

NaMo is a seasoned politician, possibly the future PM. What he says is a LOT more significant.

In any case, I don't care who says what as long as the country benefits and there is a greater chance of that happening if someone more important in the scheme of things thinks about what benefits the country.

Of course, there's always the chance that what's said before the election is conveniently forgotten afterwards Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are fed up of the current situation- that is an undisputed fact . They want a change.
They have no hopes from the current power centre , especially the titular Post of PM.

In NaMo, they will seek that change. And NaMo and his campaign team would do well to take advantage of the opportunity that has presented itself. People will not vote for BJP the party, but they will vote for a leader if they see hope.
Hence the campaign should focus solely on development, but not just by finger pointing at the present govt. That every one knows. Whats the change planned ? Thats what people really want to know. The toilets before temple was the right step in that direction.
Namo team must move forward undeterred, least of all by some of the old guard in his own party/ alliance. That alliance (NDA) has no credible alternative to NaMo.

IF some intelligence is applied, then there should be an increased move to draw out an informal debate on the Development-change agenda.

Can congress dare to bring out a debate in the open ? They cannot even have an offline debate using their principal leader like RaGa.

All they can do is to propose to tear up agreed pieces of legislation.

However, methinks that they will have a small ace up their sleeve close to the election that NaMo team needs to worry about. They may spring forth another "Non-politician" , clean technocrat as a PM candidate...while the first family continues to hold power without responsibility.
Any guesses on this option ??
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssbmat wrote:

However, methinks that they will have a small ace up their sleeve close to the election that NaMo team needs to worry about. They may spring forth another "Non-politician" , clean technocrat as a PM candidate...while the first family continues to hold power without responsibility.
Any guesses on this option ??


I don't think that will work anymore. The electorate has seen through it.
The only hope for the Congress, IMO, is to nominate Sonia Gandhi herself as candidate for the PM's office.
Her remote control of the PM has undermined the highest administrative office in the country. It is better if that stops and she faces the brickbats herself.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Goat wrote:
ssbmat wrote:

However, methinks that they will have a small ace up their sleeve close to the election that NaMo team needs to worry about. They may spring forth another "Non-politician" , clean technocrat as a PM candidate...while the first family continues to hold power without responsibility.
Any guesses on this option ??


I don't think that will work anymore. The electorate has seen through it.
The only hope for the Congress, IMO, is to nominate Sonia Gandhi herself as candidate for the PM's office.
Her remote control of the PM has undermined the highest administrative office in the country. It is better if that stops and she faces the brickbats herself.


AFAIK As per the constitution Sonia Gandhi cannot be the PM of India.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to see a Third front forming a government under the Prime Ministership of Mulayam Singh Yadav. It will bring problem to our economy and law and order.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
AFAIK As per the constitution Sonia Gandhi cannot be the PM of India.

She absolutely can become Prime Minister (Sushma bhenji's natak
aside).

Not that I'm dying to see Sonia as PM, but fortunately we don't have silly restrictions such as birth or national origin that automatically disqualify anyone from office.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, but is she a citizen of India?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
True, but is she a citizen of India?

Yes, she is.

(I take it you're poking fun at the conspiracy theories that went around last election?)
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
True, but is she a citizen of India?

Yes, she is.

(I take it you're poking fun at the conspiracy theories that went around last election?)


Kind of, just that I don't know the truth.

Of course I find it hard to believe the internet circulars that go about claiming their Italian passports and everything. But I don't trust that one bit.

Having said that Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi do have soe Italian aliases for sure which I can attest.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
True, but is she a citizen of India?

Yes, she is.

(I take it you're poking fun at the conspiracy theories that went around last election?)


Wow! You must be an hardcore Congress supporter. If you feel they are going to bring better progress this time, than in the last two terms, then they will have to accept public sentiments.

They will have to stop giving tickets to their corrupt politicians and those celebrities. That includes Suresh Kalmadi, Azharuddin, Rajesh Babbar, Sachin Tendulkar and people like Govinda.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:
jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
True, but is she a citizen of India?

Yes, she is.

(I take it you're poking fun at the conspiracy theories that went around last election?)


Wow! You must be an hardcore Congress supporter. If you feel they are going to bring better progress this time, than in the last two terms, then they will have to accept public sentiments.

They will have to stop giving tickets to their corrupt politicians and those celebrities. That includes Suresh Kalmadi, Azharuddin, Rajesh Babbar, Sachin Tendulkar and people like Govinda.


Where did I ever say that?

I merely said that Sonia Gandhi is legally eligible to become Prime Minister, since she meets the constitutional criteria.

The topic of this thread is about an individual, not a party. And, party affiliations aside, I simply cannot support the Butcher of Baroda becoming the leader of our country. Doesn't matter if he is from the BJP, the Congress, or the Poona Parsi Punchayet. He's still a genocidal mass murderer.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G-BYGB wrote:


They will have to stop giving tickets to their corrupt politicians and those celebrities. That includes Suresh Kalmadi, Azharuddin, Rajesh Babbar, Sachin Tendulkar and people like Govinda.

Those are the least of issues (except Kalmadi)..The bigger issues are the scams like 2G, Coalgate etc where all possible norms of governance and administration have been violated. Not to mention the constant appeasement of rogue neighbours who routinely create major law and order issues in our country.

@Jasepl- easy on the epithets ....truth is, the ruling party has caused far more issues in this country since 1947, and before that during the pre-partition era.
Whats more, their head of government has no control over the administation , nor any say in his party. At a time of India "emerging" on the world scene, this is certainly not the party who should be in charge.
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jasepl
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I don't disagree with the assessment of the government's performance at all. They've done a very poor job of both doing their job and the politics/spin of it all. The last couple of years have been blunder after Jet-style blunder, on almost all fronts, except a couple of social justice issues.

That said, if any of us think the BJP and their new Crusader-in-Chief is going to be India's equivalent of an Etihad in shining armour, then I'm afraid we've got another thing coming. The unfortunate reality of today's world is that we're going to get more of the exact same thing. With the added mandir nonsense thrown in, which we really don't need at all.

My personal opinion of the BJPwallahs aside, their biggest shortfall is that they're not even offering anything better.

And no, please don't tell me a mass murderer is better than a thief.
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avbuff
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@jasepl

Why don't you become the PM? It'll be an interesting thing to have a bawa PM (no offence meant Wink ) ..... maybe you can appoint some of us in the cabinet ... and maybe "Delna" can be the party high commend lol
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:


The topic of this thread is about an individual, not a party. And, party affiliations aside, I simply cannot support the Butcher of Baroda becoming the leader of our country. Doesn't matter if he is from the BJP, the Congress, or the Poona Parsi Punchayet. He's still a genocidal mass murderer.


In all probability, BJP won't win absolute majority in 2014 election. Thereby, they would require to form an alliance with other parties. As a result, Modi has to step aside from being a PM candidate because none of the major regional parties are going to join BJP under his candidature.

Modi is not that popular in Southern parts of India. Besides, people will also be worried about their lives because they don't know if they will be the next victim of fake encounter.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
@jasepl

Why don't you become the PM? It'll be an interesting thing to have a bawa PM (no offence meant Wink ) ..... maybe you can appoint some of us in the cabinet ... and maybe "Delna" can be the party high commend lol

Oh... That would be fun to be all high and mighty, even if I'll only last all of 20 minutes before my big mouth gets me killed by the minion of some thin-skinned goondatician.

Then again, it would mean going to Dilly.... So thanks, but no thanks Smile

G-BYGB wrote:
Besides, people will also be worried about their lives because they don't know if they will be the next victim of fake encounter.

I don't expect things to be near as bad, but we really can do without the palpable perma-tension that existed when the mandir brigade was in power.

It's caused far more long-term structural damage than good old-fashioned corruption ever can.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:


I don't expect things to be near as bad, but we really can do without the palpable perma-tension that existed when the mandir brigade was in power.

It's caused far more long-term structural damage than good old-fashioned corruption ever can.


It is better to retain our traditional tag line of this country, "Unity in Diversity" rather than a "Majoritarianism" under a so-called able administrator.

Even if corruption may prevail under the new government, atleast it would be confronted by the civil society and eventually the politicians will fall in line. This is so prevailant at the moment. But to see our society ruled by a religious group in the guise of a political party, I would rather migrate to another country.

It is upto the civil society to be a part of the system and be the next best alternative to the Congress and BJP, by forming a political party. Like how Arvind Kejriwal has formed the Aam Aadmi Party. Even though it is new, it atleast shows us the way of "Be the Change" rather than "Wait for Change through the existing political forces that never gonna change".
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pretty much agree with most of jasepls points.

People can vote for NM or whoever they want, but they need to do it with their eyes open. They need to be informed enough (and have the stomach) to admit why. If someone chooses the hope of progress over bloody hands OK, but admit it- don't overlook it!
Everyone knows PM Manmohan Singh screwed up big time. NM also has the reputation and possible ability of stopping this economic decline which has taken hold (less likely to controlled). But at what cost?
Do I want a leader (or worse a nation) who wants to build a temple at Ayodhya instead of a park? Do I want a VHP/hindutva type mentality at the top?

Part of me understands why people would place development over everything else, part of me questions it.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stealthpilot wrote:
Part of me understands why people would place development over everything else, part of me questions it.


People need jobs/ food/ shelter and the current govt. is not delivering. The only thing the current govt. is delivering is the vast bouquet of scams and public money being swindled shamelessly. People care about their basic needs (food/ shelter/ jobs) more than the communal-clash-a-minute that happens across India. If it's not Mulayam's UP, it's AP which is up in flames. J&K is a perennial tinderbox.

I would imagine that far more people are dying due to the corruption and lack of development from the current UPA, than due to the communal riots at Godhra. And ultimately folks want to live in India, and should (IMHO) choose zero-corruption and hence development over everything else.
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avbuff
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
@jasepl

Why don't you become the PM? It'll be an interesting thing to have a bawa PM (no offence meant Wink ) ..... maybe you can appoint some of us in the cabinet ... and maybe "Delna" can be the party high commend lol

Oh... That would be fun to be all high and mighty, even if I'll only last all of 20 minutes before my big mouth gets me killed by the minion of some thin-skinned goondatician.

Then again, it would mean going to Dilly.... So thanks, but no thanks Smile


You should have said "To become the PM, I need to go out of town ... thanks but no thanks" LOL.

But then Digvijay Singh is still alive, so I'm sure you can add that entertainment quotient Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avbuff wrote:
jasepl wrote:
avbuff wrote:
True, but is she a citizen of India?

Yes, she is.

(I take it you're poking fun at the conspiracy theories that went around last election?)


Kind of, just that I don't know the truth.

Of course I find it hard to believe the internet circulars that go about claiming their Italian passports and everything. But I don't trust that one bit.

Having said that Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi do have soe Italian aliases for sure which I can attest.


I don't know about aliases, but many countries, including Italy, France, Britain etc, simply didn't allow you to renounce your citizenship if you were born a citizen.

So, Antonia Maino remained an Italian citizen in the eyes of the Italian Republic, even if she married a foreigner, threw away her passport, put on a saree and acquired Indian citizenship.

Some countries have since changed their laws and some haven't. Amongst those that have, the change doesn't apply retroactively. It's a complicated business.

stealthpilot wrote:
I pretty much agree with most of jasepls points.

People can vote for NM or whoever they want, but they need to do it with their eyes open. They need to be informed enough (and have the stomach) to admit why. If someone chooses the hope of progress over bloody hands OK, but admit it- don't overlook it!
Everyone knows PM Manmohan Singh screwed up big time. NM also has the reputation and possible ability of stopping this economic decline which has taken hold (less likely to controlled). But at what cost?
Do I want a leader (or worse a nation) who wants to build a temple at Ayodhya instead of a park? Do I want a VHP/hindutva type mentality at the top?

Part of me understands why people would place development over everything else, part of me questions it.

Exactly. And that's a larger discussion about whether the Congress or the BJP or the Communist Party will do the least bad job running the country over the next few years.

And as I said before, party aside, the person leading us as Prime Minister is a separate issue that we started talking about here.

I wonder if people who are all gung-ho about Modi will be just as gung-ho if he were a Congress politician.

Nimish wrote:
And ultimately folks want to live in India, and should (IMHO) choose zero-corruption and hence development over everything else.

Absolutely agree. 100%.

However, when it comes to corruption and non-development, the mandir goondas re going to be no better than the current lot, unfortunately for our country.

avbuff wrote:
You should have said "To become the PM, I need to go out of town ... thanks but no thanks" LOL.

Damn straight! There needs to be a bloody good reason to go north of Cumballa Hill. And Dalhi isn't one! Smile
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