| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
shivendrashukla
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India
|
 Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:17 pm Post subject: IAF flagged MiG issues, but government response is slow |
 |
|
| Quote: | A post-mortem of the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) MiG series of fighter jets has revealed that the aircrafts’ engines were of poor quality and experienced several problems.
The problem ranges from oil leak, metallic particle in oil filters and hot air leak from rear casing, to trouble in compressor and even in turbine of MiG-27 aero engines. The defects are scary for the government, which has lost almost half of its MiG fleet to the crashes in the last 40 years, leaving 171 pilots and 39 civilians dead. Although Defence Minister A K Antony had told Parliament last year that both human error and technical defects were responsible for MiG crashes, he conveniently forgot to inform people about horrific condition of government’s state-of-the-art manufacturing unit.
“Most of the cause factors can be classified as defects during manufacturing or overhauling process. IAF has been flagging these issues but government’s response is slow,” said an official on the condition of anonymity.
It is learnt that all three MiGs-MiG-27, MiG-29 and MiG-21-are facing serious quality issues. MiG-27 suffered Low Pressure Turbine Rotor (LPTR) failure in at least 11 recent incidents. The HAL in some cases even lied while overhauling the LPTR, saying it had followed the overhaul manual but Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials said the procedure recommended by the original equipment manufacturer was not being implemented by the celebrated company.
There are more shocking facts conveniently swept under the carpet. The springs installed in fuel pump of MiG 21 engines are failing frequently. A MiG-21 Bison aircraft crashed in November 2012 in Gujarat which was attributed to spring failure. The documents suggest that of the five main fuel pumps fitted with HAL-manufactured springs, at least three springs failed, which is unforgivable as it would have certainly resulted in accidents. Shockingly, the main fuel pumps of MiG-21 Bison engine continue to leak fuel, despite four studies conducted and implemented since 1990s. It says despite incorporating changes, fuel leak from main fuel pump continued unabated from throttle end.
A senior official said flying operations of MiG-29 fleet are often suspended due to non-availability of critical accessories and poor quality of repairing. Even if one aircraft of the fleet is affected by the snag, the entire fleet is grounded till the problem is identified and resolved.
However, another reason behind the poor quality of production and engine repairs is attributed to mass production work in the last leg of production year, to achieve the target. For example, in the first six months of 2012-13 production year, HAL finished the work on only four MiG-29 engines, but in the last quarter of the year, four engines were completed within three months.
Similarly for MiG-27, the HAL finished the work on nine engines in nine months, but interestingly another nine engines were completed within the last three months. The issue was flagged by the MoD saying such trend is adversely affecting the quality of aero engines. |
http://newindianexpress.com/nation/IAF-flagged-MiG-issues-but-government-response-is-slow/2013/08/25/article1750698.ece
Cheers
Shivendra |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
sabya99
Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 1399
Location: New Jersey/CCU
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mig 21 designed in 1952 is showing the signs of age. Although many Soviet client states are still using them , if IAF have servicing problem or spare parts problem with these aircrafts then entire fleet should be grounded. But with newer aircrafts like Mig-29 there must be sufficient inventory of parts. IAF should know all modern high performance jet aircrafts require heavy servicing. I think F-16 requires 4 hrs. servicing for every 1 hrs. flight. A large inventory of spares must be maintained for such a fleet. 
_________________
Sabya99 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sumantra
Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dr. Ganguly, the article Shukla-ji has quoted gives a damning indictment of the HAL, which the IAF has to depend on for servicing, and overhauls. What the report says amounts to cold-blooded murder of IAF officers due to sheer negligence, or simply shoddy work. Do brave IAF officers deserve this? This is shocking, to say the least.
-Sumantra. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shivendrashukla
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sumantra wrote: | Dr. Ganguly, the article Shukla-ji has quoted gives a damning indictment of the HAL, which the IAF has to depend on for servicing, and overhauls. What the report says amounts to cold-blooded murder of IAF officers due to sheer negligence, or simply shoddy work. Do brave IAF officers deserve this? This is shocking, to say the least.
-Sumantra. |
Sir, IAF has time and again bought out this issue. I hope someone listens to IAF's plea's.
HAL has a captive customer with IAF. It knows that whatever they produce, IAF will have to buy for sake of indegenisation. when such a situation arises, quality goes out of the window. HAL being DPSU knows it can get away with anything as it has been till now. Lack of other aircraft manufacturing units would certainly help bringing in more competition and thereby making HAL puling up their socks. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shivendrashukla
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India
|
| Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sabya99 wrote: | | MIAF have servicing problem or spare parts problem with these aircrafts then entire fleet should be grounded. But with newer aircrafts like Mig-29 there must be sufficient inventory of parts. |
Sir, IAF is already half a dozen squadron short of its sanctioned strength. If any more fleet is retired, it will affect the operational capability of the force. Newer aircrafts are either stuck in red tape (MMRCA) or our inept DPSU's are unable to produce an aircraft in which our brave pilots would want to go and fight the enemy (Tejas). With such a situation, IAF has no other choice but to keep the MiG 21 fleet flying until replacement arrives.
Spares were a problem when USSR broke up into different states and their defence industries collapsed. This was a time when the spare manufacturers either closed up or were unable to provide spares for MiG 21 series. The problem seems to have sorted as of now. As for crashes, there are different reasons why the crash occurs, not necessary every time due to technical defect. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aseem
Member
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 2841
Location: YYZ
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
Either way the grounds are sufficient for black listing of HAL.
VT-ASJ
_________________
[url=http://openflights.org/user/aseemsjohri]
 [/url] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
shivendrashukla
Member
Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 1354
Location: Mumbai, India
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dark secret behind mystery of the 'flying coffins'
| Quote: | A post-mortem of the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) MiG series of fighter jets has come up with shocking revelations pointing to perennial engine oil leaks besides other serious technical glitches that have lent the aircraft notorious distinction of ‘flying coffin’ or ‘widow-maker’ owing to frequent crashes and loss of human lives.
Every MiG crash in the country invited emotional outbursts from public and stinging rebuke from defence analysts, but the incidents were invariably written off claiming them to be human error.
Documents accessed by The Sunday Standard reveal that MiG engines that propelled these roaring fighter jets, once considered backbone of the IAF, are of poor quality. Nearly 40 per cent of these engines and accessories produced by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Koraput, have been returned by the IAF for some or the other defects. HAL is a Navratna company, owned by the government.
The problem ranges from oil leak, metallic particle in oil filters and hot air leak from rear casing to trouble in compressor and even in turbine of MiG-27 aero engines. The defects are scary for the government, which has lost almost half of its MiG fleet to the crashes in the last 40 years, leaving 171 pilots and 39 civilians dead. Although Defence Minister A K Antony had told Parliament last year that both human error and technical defects were responsible for MiG crashes, he conveniently forgot to inform people about horrific condition of government’s state-of-the-art manufacturing unit.
“Most of the cause factors can be classified as defects during manufacturing or overhauling process. IAF has been flagging these issues but government’s response is slow,” said an official on the condition of anonymity.
It is learnt that all three MiGs—MiG-27, MiG-29 and MiG-21—are facing serious quality issues. MiG-27 suffered Low Pressure Turbine Rotor (LPTR) failure in at least 11 recent incidents. The HAL in some cases even lied while overhauling the LPTR, saying it had followed the overhaul manual but Ministry of Defence (MoD) officials said the procedure recommended by the original equipment manufacturer was not being implemented by the celebrated company.
There are more shocking facts conveniently swept under the carpet. The springs installed in fuel pump of MiG 21 engines are failing frequently. A MiG-21 Bison aircraft crashed in November 2012 in Gujarat which was attributed to spring failure.
The documents suggest that of the five main fuel pumps fitted with HAL-manufactured springs, at least three springs failed, which is unforgivable as it would have certainly resulted in accidents. Shockingly, the main fuel pumps of MiG-21 Bison engine continue to leak fuel, despite four studies conducted and implemented since 1990s. It says despite incorporating changes, fuel leak from main fuel pump continued unabated from throttle end.
A senior official said flying operations of MiG-29 fleet are often suspended due to non-availability of critical accessories and poor quality of repairing. Even if one aircraft of the fleet is affected by the snag, the entire fleet is grounded till the problem is identified and resolved.
However, another reason behind the poor quality of production and engine repairs is attributed to mass production work in the last leg of production year, to achieve the target. For example, in the first six months of 2012-13 production year, HAL finished the work on only four MiG-29 engines, but in the last quarter of the year, four engines were completed within three months.
Similarly for MiG-27, the HAL finished the work on nine engines in nine months, but interestingly another nine engines were completed within the last three months. The issue was flagged by the MoD saying such trend is adversely affecting the quality of aero engines.
“HAL is not interested to provide quality engines or repair work to the IAF. They are only interested in meeting the production numbers every year. There is also an impression that the work force in HAL delays the production to last three months to earn few extra bucks for ‘over time’ which is disgusting, given the fact that human lives are at stake,” an official said. |
http://newindianexpress.com/thesundaystandard/Dark-secret-behind-mystery-of-the-flying-coffins/2013/08/25/article1750209.ece
Shivendra |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sumantra
Member
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4685
Location: New Delhi
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Shukla-ji, thanks for pointing us to what perhaps is the first acknowledgement in the open press of the incompetence of the HAL's role in the Mig-21 crashes, for instance (something my IAF friends used to tell me, including the fact that it was not the aircraft at fault per se, in most cases). I hope this forces the HAL to get its act together, and not continue this cold-blooded murder of brave officers who dedicate their everything to the nation. Do people remember Arthur Miller's work, `All my Sons'? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sabya99
Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 1399
Location: New Jersey/CCU
|
| Posted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shivendrashukla wrote: | | sabya99 wrote: | | MIAF have servicing problem or spare parts problem with these aircrafts then entire fleet should be grounded. But with newer aircrafts like Mig-29 there must be sufficient inventory of parts. |
Sir, IAF is already half a dozen squadron short of its sanctioned strength. If any more fleet is retired, it will affect the operational capability of the force. Newer aircrafts are either stuck in red tape (MMRCA) or our inept DPSU's are unable to produce an aircraft in which our brave pilots would want to go and fight the enemy (Tejas). With such a situation, IAF has no other choice but to keep the MiG 21 fleet flying until replacement arrives.
Spares were a problem when USSR broke up into different states and their defence industries collapsed. This was a time when the spare manufacturers either closed up or were unable to provide spares for MiG 21 series. The problem seems to have sorted as of now. As for crashes, there are different reasons why the crash occurs, not necessary every time due to technical defect. |
An aircraft designed in 1952 and still flying in 2013 is not a matter of joke, after all it is not B52 or Canberra. Jet engines are not manufactured in an assembly line shop. Rather they are made individually by select group of work team. I think this is the most complex aspect of any military industrial complex. Did babus of HAL know that? I think HAL should introduce administration and work place culture of Rolls Royce jet engine plant in England. I have posted a few youtube video clips on jet engine assembly, please take a look. The complexity is amazing. Given India’s chaotic social system I wonder how they even try to assemble jet engine!!
_________________
Sabya99 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
